YOGA...ooer!

[AnnieHall]

Just thought I’d [post this again for any new visitors:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...s/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

Annie, if Pope Francis spoke about Yoga being bad for people, he wouldn’t be doing it to insult, but to warn, or to steer, as this is his role as a very devoted Catholic Pope.

If he said not to do Yoga for spiritual reasons, this looks as if it is tame or neutral, but in fact says a whole deal about Yoga practice in general. He said in the article that all we need is the Holy Spirit, and Christians know we can pray to the Holy Spirit for ALL our needs - for anxiety and stress, for pain, for worries. These can ALL be of a spiritual nature, because, human beings are all spiritual beings as we are made in the image of God - the body and soul make up who we are. Sometimes if a person’s soul is healed their pain goes. There are people who have been seriously ill and Christians prayed for them and their pain or illness vanished. Others put their suffering into God’s hands and this can be enough to give them peace. This is not a rare phenomenon. So when he says not to seek spiritual answers in Yoga, he is saying that for all purposes Yoga is not in fact needed. There are no spiritual answers to any problem to be found in Yoga. Sure, doing any stretch may help the back, but this type of exercise can be achieved by a back specialist with no need for Yoga or for a position to be called Yoga. Yoga doesn’t need to be approached for any reason whatsoever. When people use the word ‘insult’, they forget that as Christians, to go against the tenets of their faith is insulting in a spiritual way as we are temples of the Holy Spirit.

I have so much respect for those innocent people in the Middle East who would not renounce their faith in the face of barbaric adversity, risking their lives; compared to here, in the West, where we can’t even put up with the slightest change to our daily routine for the sake of faith - me included in this in many ways, I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t admit this, who is really innocent, is a sad state of affairs. However, New Age (Yoga being lumped in with this) is simply not an advisable route to go down.

Pain relief is just one reason a person may have for trying this out. Of course prayer is an excellent and wonderful gift and our relationship with God should come before all else, but I fail to see how pain treatments (whether something that leans more towards restorative/preventative like yoga, or something from a doctor/over the counter, or in some severe situations, maybe something even more related to medical sources) should be assumed to get in the way of a relationship with God.

I think exercise, stretching, strengthening muscles and our cores, are good ways for people to recover from injury (of course, taking it slowly and not pushing beyond what their body can handle), and for those that are healthy, it’s a great way to stay healthy. I’m talking about just exercise in general here. If you want to bring spirituality into exercise, I think you could do it with many other things - I mentioned previously, I believe, my bias towards running and swimming. Both of these are suited to the rhythmic/counting/breathing aspect of yoga, and if you’re thinking about mantas in yoga, you could easily apply these while running or swooning too (once you’ve reached the point where you can do these activities without actively thinking about what you’re doing). Our you could replace a mantra with a prayer, such as the Hail Mary.

I guess I have a hard time understanding why, if an exercise had a spiritual aspect, it wouldn’t just be an extension of the spirituality that you already have outside of the exercise. As long as it is something IN ADDITION TO your religion and spiritual guidance and education in other areas of your life. I agree with the pope that it shouldn’t be anyone’s soul source of spirituality, and that you Spyker go to yoga class to find God or to replace other aspects of your life, but as a purely physical exercise or a time to find some peace and relief, I think it’s okay. Intention matters, as with most things.

 

[AnnieHall]

There are terrible stories which are true about what Yoga can do. I read a few about it causing long-term brain damage.

I think I almost got brain damage the first time I tried to go up in crow pose!

Note to self - you have very little upper body strength, don’t try that one again anytime soon!

 

[SyroMalankara]

And yet it is the only experience we will ever know. Your day to day experiences are the only experiences you have. When someone tells you the way the world is and you accept what they say, that too is your experience. When you believe in something and when you don’t believe in something, whether it was told to you by others or you came upon it on your own, that is your experience too. When you say that science tells you that your experience is unreliable, well, you have simply bought into someone else’s dogma - the dogma of some scientists, who in turn are only reacting to their own experience, which in their own words is unreliable. And your experience is the experience of believing them, in spite of what you can see.

All the best,
Gary

Now you are getting into philosophy, by excepting the standard of Catholicism, this perspective is just as flawed as the ones you are stating as unreliable. Experience is only as ‘good’ as the senses used to absorb and translate that experience. Something as simple as ‘incorrect prescription’ on your glasses will change an experience of the “fuzzy world” into a clear world - just because you experience the “fuzz” doesn’t mean that objectively everything is fuzzy. It means you need vision correction.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

'Ten ways to determine if a practice is compatible with your Catholic faith.

1. Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?
2. Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?
3. The human being: Is there one universal being or are there many individuals?
4. Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?
5. Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?
6. Prayer and meditation: Are we talking to ourselves or to God?
7. Are we tempted to deny the reality of sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?
8. Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?
9. Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?
10. Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?

When we apply these questions to yoga they do not preclude yoga anymore than an other activity in our lives. It all comes down to our attitude, motivation and expectations.

 

[agnes_therese]

When we apply these questions to yoga they do not preclude yoga anymore than an other activity in our lives. It all comes down to our attitude, motivation and expectations.

Those questions have absolutely nothing to do with yoga.

 

[friardchips]

Those questions have absolutely nothing to do with yoga.

They have everything to do with it.

 

[friardchips]

I think I almost got brain damage the first time I tried to go up in crow pose!

Note to self - you have very little upper body strength, don’t try that one again anytime soon!

Hi again, Annie. It is nice to talk to someone who doesn’t seem to take an objective discussion as a personal insult. I simply want to try and get a bit deeper with this, and your questions particularly, are right on the mark!

Basically, most things when done can be done in moderation if they are done with love, for healthy reasons, for good, true, and beautiful reasons (heavenly beauty, that is). I’m sure you’d agree.

First of all. People are born with bodies in which are housed our souls. We are imperfect in the sense that sin imperfects and makes ugly the soul. And it is said that original sin also brought imperfection such as deformity (this makes sense as what might be superficially imperfect to another human might be spiritually beautiful inside) into the world. The human seeks to try and make perfect what is imperfect by earthly means. But the earth in itself is still part of creation, creation that is good, but not perfect, because only God, who is spirit, is perfect. So we need God in order to complete us, to perfect us, for Heaven - more to do with the spirit than anything else in this life. I dare say we get out bodies back in working order in Heaven - body and soul perfectly rested in Christ.

Moving on from this basis, we begin to move into the natural order. Because we are imperfect we look to various ways to make everything perfect around us. Some people escape into bad things, some people get a preoccupation with things, some people hide behind masks unable to come to terms with the reality of self, some people look to success and wealth; on a more positive note some look to helping others, some try and keep a happy family home, some also look to God in very direct ways, in the Catholic religion and others. But all to gain an actual realisation of that hope we feel but often seems to be a little out of reach. And physical ailments etc…can make this even harder. Because God is in the facts, the things that are bad for us and unintended to be a certain way will often be known by its fruit - there are certain diseases that come from certain practices, for example.

Now let’s look at Yoga. There are many who claim it to help on various levels. There are many who claim it is dangerous and has affected them badly. I tend to think that because this is the case, Yoga is a bit like a steroid top-up. It apparently makes body-builders strong but then the downside is unspeakable and for athletes too. And there are possible reasons for this. One of these is because our bodies, despite being prone to ailments, are finely tuned instruments. And through our bodies energy travels through our nervous system. If we imagine each of our very many nerves are like an instrument expertly finely tuned in an orchestra of nerves and other elements, we see that these are not to be messed around with, unless by a highly qualified and registered doctor/scientist, because these instruments can easily become out of tune, thus affecting the whole orchestra. People who do New Age say there is good energy and bad energy, which is false. There is only energy, full stop, which we use - we build up, we conserve, our bodies make energy - all for fuel. There is energy that comes from sunlight that God has also created. Now if we contort our bodies which are conductors of the energy from the sunlight in such a way that it directs it in an unnatural way (by unnatural, I mean adjusting what is finely tuned already) then it is problematic. This is something that can come about during any Yoga practice whether or not one intends for it because of the position of the spine in various Yoga positions. And the problem also has something to do with the spinal fluid at the base. This would explain why it is that people feel healing -because one is directing the energy from the sun to a certain area. This does not seem bad in itself, does it, because medicine serves to heal. But the issue is the lack of authority (on the practical level alone). If one is doing this exercise at an unregulated amount, the flow of this energy, flowing through the nervous system can, I think, damage the nerves. Because the spine is connected to the brain it makes the practice dangerous even if the nerves themselves heal.

Now you say you have a teacher. I have been asking who the authority is but for spiritual reasons as Yoga is not based on Christian teaching. Yoga teachers must have got their training from somewhere (Hinduism?). On a practical level, unless they have been trained by scientists and doctors who have looked into all this, they have no real authority from a biological standpoint because this has not been researched properly in science. New Age Gas Janets have taken this stuff into their little hemp-made Chakra-domains and given so-called spiritual titles to everything to jazz it up and make it trendy, making it a subject serious professionals won’t go near. New Age Gas Janets are probably the reason the Catholic Church has not looked into it more from a spiritual perspective also.

Now I know that my science is a little out but with a bit of HEALTHY readjustment, Annie, one might find my thesis makes sense. I don’t know - electrical impulses in the brain, energy waves travelling through the body, nerve centres etc…one doesn’t mess around with these instruments on the say so of a Sensai Bogi or an Eastern Avatar, surely 'tis then random picking, otherwise. Check this link out for some good old-fashioned practical sense…ay?!:

sciencemuseum.org.uk/WhoAmI/FindOutMore/Yourbrain/Howdoesyourbrainwork/Howdoesyournervoussystemwork/Whatarenerveimpulses.aspx

 

[friardchips]

…and here’s a smile for good measure:

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Now if we contort our bodies which are conductors of the energy from the sunlight in such a way that it directs it in an unnatural way (by unnatural, I mean adjusting what is finely tuned already) then it is problematic. This is something that can come about during any Yoga practice whether or not one intends for it because of the position of the spine in various Yoga positions.

There is no argument there. If done improperly one can get injured. But that is true with any sport. It is not a spiritual danger but a physical one. Still, most stretches and postures are not only harmless, but beneficial.

I am glad to see you have interest in science.

How about the Mayo Clinic?
mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/stress-management/in-depth/yoga/art-20044733

Webmd
webmd.com/balance/guide/the-health-benefits-of-yoga

American Osteopathic Association
osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-health/health-conditions-library/general-health/Pages/yoga.aspx

MD Anderson
mdanderson.org/newsroom/news-releases/2014/yoga-regulates-stress.html

Even Fox News likes it
foxnews.com/health/2014/05/07/new-studies-offer-evidence-mind-and-body-benefits-yoga/

 

[AnnieHall]

I’m on my phone now and not brave enough to attempt to go through point by point with responses (where I even have any - I’m not well informed in whatever energy or spinal fluids you were referring to, and I think I’d need to read your post a few more times to wrap my head around everything, but as far as the questioning where teachers get their authority /training… I don’t use the term teacher as a way to mean life coach or spiritual leader. Like any group fitness class, there is a person at the front of the room who is responsible for bringing music and organizing the class. She determines the order and pacing of the class, gives tips to help us through (drop your shoulders, spread your toes, bend your left knee and raise your arms, etc) and goes through the movements with us - especially useful for a beginner who doesn’t know the names of all (or many) of the poses.

As far as her background and training, I can’t say that I know all of her qualifications, but I also never asked any of my zumba instructors for detailed backgrounds, or teachers from pure barre, pilates, kick boxing, spinning, or any of the other classes I’ve tried (wow, that is a lot of different classes I have tried that didn’t “click” with me, for one reason or another!). I would guess that like most teachers for fitness classes, there are a variety of certification programs available that will teach how to support and explain a class while keeping the students safe from injury.

 

[AnnieHall]

As I’ve said before, the only yoga I’ve encountered is a Western style fitness based style, and any spirituality that’s infused beyond reminders to be grateful and the occasional reference to energy flowing/lifting your heart (which I’ve always interpreted as awareness of your body and a slight physical lifting of the chest), I think any additional spirituality is coming from the individual and not from the instructor.

This may be different with different styles or with different teachers, but all of my experiences have been the same, which make me think at least a decent chunk of westernized yoga is the same way, where the instructors are fitness instructors, and not spiritual advisors.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

These days there are certifications for teachers. Iyengar is one of the main schools.
A minimum of three years of continuous study and practice with a Certified Iyengar Yoga Teacher (CIYT) is required of anyone applying for assessment.

iynaus.org/teach/certification

And research links for those with science interest.
“We hope that our work, combined with the committed efforts of the National Institute of Health’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, will further the study of yoga and engender awareness and acceptance of alternative forms of health care.”

iynaus.org/research/research

Concern about the spine?
Integrating Iyengar yoga into rehab for spinal cord injury
journals.lww.com/nursing/Fulltext/2006/10002/Integrating_Iyengar_yoga_into_rehab_for_spinal.6.aspx

 

[AnnieHall]

These days there are certifications for teachers. Iyengar is one of the main schools.
A minimum of three years of continuous study and practice with a Certified Iyengar Yoga Teacher (CIYT) is required of anyone applying for assessment.

iynaus.org/teach/certification

And research links for those with science interest.
“We hope that our work, combined with the committed efforts of the National Institute of Health’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, will further the study of yoga and engender awareness and acceptance of alternative forms of health care.”

iynaus.org/research/research

Thanks for the info!

Concern about the spine?
Integrating Iyengar yoga into rehab for spinal cord injury
journals.lww.com/nursing/Fulltext/2006/10002/Integrating_Iyengar_yoga_into_rehab_for_spinal.6.aspx

 

[friardchips]

As I’ve said before, the only yoga I’ve encountered is a Western style fitness based style, and any spirituality that’s infused beyond reminders to be grateful and the occasional reference to energy flowing/lifting your heart (which I’ve always interpreted as awareness of your body and a slight physical lifting of the chest), I think any additional spirituality is coming from the individual and not from the instructor.

This may be different with different styles or with different teachers, but all of my experiences have been the same, which make me think at least a decent chunk of westernized yoga is the same way, where the instructors are fitness instructors, and not spiritual advisors.

I suppose the difference between us is that I look to top professionals for peer-review level articles for the research and certainly before doing something that could alter in any way the spine, its nervous system, energy waves through the system, and impulses to the brain; an activity such as this for me would need to be looked at first by top medical professionals (surgeon-level not alternative-therapy-certificate level!), and for the spiritual side of things the top religious theologians, and certainly from the Vatican. I’ll stick to sitting quietly in God’s presence that way I won’t risk my mental faculties being destroyed and maybe a run for fitness - Yoga is different to running and kickboxing because it is bringing the mental, the mind, into the framework of the bodily exercise more so due to the ‘channelling’ aspect.

Anyway, I hope you get to check the link. If not, never mind.

I also hope that you don’t run into problems later on whatever you decide. Either way, it doesn’t hurt to be aware.

All the best and thanks for your posts!

God bless!

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Now you are getting into philosophy, by excepting the standard of Catholicism, this perspective is just as flawed as the ones you are stating as unreliable. Experience is only as ‘good’ as the senses used to absorb and translate that experience. Something as simple as ‘incorrect prescription’ on your glasses will change an experience of the “fuzzy world” into a clear world - just because you experience the “fuzz” doesn’t mean that objectively everything is fuzzy. It means you need vision correction.

Good Evening Syro: You are experiencing a given iteration of reality based on your sense perception and metabolism. If you look at a fly, it’s wings seem to be a blur, but if you increased your metabolism enough, it’s wings would appear to be slower. If you increased your metabolism enough, the fly would appear to be still. If you went faster still, the fly would appear gelatinous. If you went faster still, the fly would look like particles shaped like a fly. Eventually, if you went fast enough, it would all be particles that are indistinguishable from the air, cloud, leaf and grass particles around it. Just particles that present endless potential realities.

This raises the question as to whether or not what we take to be reality is just an iteration of reality that is based on your senses and your metabolism, and we take it to be a common and shared truth because we have only discussed it with people, and people have the same senses for the most part and share roughly the same metabolism. But perhaps we are only snatching a particular reality from an infinite set of potential realities. Further supporting this idea, there have been many experiments that successfully replicate Wheeler’s Delayed Choice from 1977, wherein particles don’t even become particles until they are observed by something. Prior to observation, they are simply potentials that exist as waves. This further supports the idea that we could be creating reality as we observe it, and science is totally unable to explain why that is. But they can replicate the experiment and have done so many times.

Insofar as having your vision corrected with glasses is concerned, this only gives a closer approximation of a shared and agreed standard of clarity with respect to vision, but the meaning of what we are viewing could be anything. It is often hard to agree on what is being viewed.

You mentioned the fact that I am Catholic. As Christians, we believe that Jesus rose from the dead after being crucified. An atheist would be quick to point out that comas simply weren’t as well understood in those times as they are in ours, further supported by the fact that it usually took a few days to die on a cross, not a few hours. But in spite of this, we insist that the resurrection was real. Whose view of reality better matches what you can attest to from our own direct experience - ours or the atheists? And let’s be honest about that if we are going to tell people that we have an absolute lock on reality. In truth, I believe what I believe with regard to Christ for reasons that are far beyond and in direct conflict with observable reality, and salted with endless repetition about these beliefs from the institution I belong to, and seasoned with a sincere desire on my part or it to be so.

All the best,
Gary

 

[friardchips]

Jesus went through the Passion, this is not recent news. He underwent a thorough scourging, a crown of thorns, and being beaten up, no doubt starved, carried a heavy cross or trunk of wood a long way, he was abandoned and ridiculed, had large nails apparently driven through his wrists not hands - there is debate over hands or wrists - and through his feet. The loss of blood would have been a ridiculous amount, packed into a day of scorching heat. After all this, He said: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”. His Father answered this call, we know this because the next reported words from Jesus’ mouth were: “Into your hands Lord, I commend my Spirit.”

So I don’t know about you, but I can quite see why the crucifixion of Jesus Christ may have been over a little quicker than other deaths and why I trust the Christian testimony far more than that of an atheist’s opinion.

God bless.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Jesus went through the Passion, this is not recent news. He underwent a thorough scourging, a crown of thorns, and being beaten up, no doubt starved, carried a heavy cross or trunk of wood a long way, he was abandoned and ridiculed, had large nails apparently driven through his wrists not hands - there is debate over hands or wrists - and through his feet. The loss of blood would have been a ridiculous amount, packed into a day of scorching heat. After all this, He said: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”. His Father answered this call, we know this because the next reported words from Jesus’ mouth were: “Into your hands Lord, I commend my Spirit.”

So I don’t know about you, but I can quite see why the crucifixion of Jesus Christ may have been over a little quicker than other deaths and why I trust the Christian testimony far more than that of an atheist’s opinion.

God bless.

Good evening Friadchips: While the crucifixion of Jesus was brutal and he suffered terribly, the conditions of his crucifixion were not unusual. Prisoners sentenced to death were horribly brutalized. My point was that if we are going to present what we believe as truth, we are up against a lot more viable explanations to the events we profess to be the cornerstones of our beliefs. With respect to the opinions of atheists, I suppose they have their reasons for believing what they do. Personally, I wouldn’t go head to head with them on the subject of Christianity based on logic and reason. This isn’t what faith is about anyway.

All the best,
Gary

 

[jilly4ski]

I suppose the difference between us is that I look to top professionals for peer-review level articles for the research and certainly before doing something that could alter in any way the spine, its nervous system, energy waves through the system, and impulses to the brain; an activity such as this for me would need to be looked at first by top medical professionals (surgeon-level not alternative-therapy-certificate level!), and for the spiritual side of things the top religious theologians, and certainly from the Vatican. I’ll stick to sitting quietly in God’s presence that way I won’t risk my mental faculties being destroyed and maybe a run for fitness - Yoga is different to running and kickboxing because it is bringing the mental, the mind, into the framework of the bodily exercise more so due to the ‘channelling’ aspect.

Anyway, I hope you get to check the link. If not, never mind.

I also hope that you don’t run into problems later on whatever you decide. Either way, it doesn’t hurt to be aware.

All the best and thanks for your posts!

God bless!

You give way more credit to Yoga than I do, and I do exercised based “yoga” on occasion.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I suppose the difference between us is that I look to top professionals for peer-review level articles for the research and certainly before doing something that could alter in any way the spine, its nervous system, energy waves through the system, and impulses to the brain; an activity such as this for me would need to be looked at first by top medical professionals (surgeon-level not alternative-therapy-certificate level!), and for the spiritual side of things the top religious theologians, and certainly from the Vatican. I’ll stick to sitting quietly in God’s presence that way I won’t risk my mental faculties being destroyed and maybe a run for fitness - Yoga is different to running and kickboxing because it is bringing the mental, the mind, into the framework of the bodily exercise more so due to the ‘channelling’ aspect.

Anyway, I hope you get to check the link. If not, never mind.

I also hope that you don’t run into problems later on whatever you decide. Either way, it doesn’t hurt to be aware.

All the best and thanks for your posts!

God bless!

How about sharing some of those peer-reviewed level articles form top professionals supporting your assertions about yoga and “channelling”?

 

[friardchips]

Good evening Friadchips: While the crucifixion of Jesus was brutal and he suffered terribly, the conditions of his crucifixion were not unusual. Prisoners sentenced to death were horribly brutalized. My point was that if we are going to present what we believe as truth, we are up against a lot more viable explanations to the events we profess to be the cornerstones of our beliefs. With respect to the opinions of atheists, I suppose they have their reasons for believing what they do. Personally, I wouldn’t go head to head with them on the subject of Christianity based on logic and reason. This isn’t what faith is about anyway.

All the best,
Gary

Hi Gary! I understand what you mean. Certainly faith often defies logic but reason does point to God although faith is often also needed. In terms of the Resurrection, which you stated in your post, I’d agree that much of this is down to faith, but with the Crucifixion, if one looks at the events in the Bible as a whole, it points with no reasonable doubt to the actuality of the event, in fact, this is also the case with the Resurrection, in terms of its place in the history of the Jews as a whole. However, also looking after the events, one can use reason, to suggest convincingly, that the events happened. Arguing with atheists about Christianity is sometimes a seemingly endless affair because it is God who changes hearts and He presents Himself more often than not via our actions and example. In the case of a person who may have already been searching in their heart sometimes verbal expression of the faith could convert (if we take the example of St. Augustine being converted by St. Ambrose as just one). I think more often than not we tend to think that the Truth means logic, as you suggested, and sure, this is not correct if we take logic to mean pure instinct and survival - worldly logic. Reason, which I think is the Heavenly version, or at least more enlightened thinking, would have it that Truth, The Truth, not my own truth only, but the truth of my character realised in The Truth, is a cornerstone which trips others up because it turns worldly logic and survival upside down and challenges people in a way that one is not expecting. So people look for their own personal truth in themselves as far as instinct and logic and run-of-the-mill happiness goes, without realising that real truth, The Truth, tends to cut through that stuff, through the layers of ice, until we reach the Spring and are able to drink from it. This means essentially that we have found a path and even our past begins to make sense. We begin to understand. The Way is never truly chaotic or simply relative as chaos means random tracks - relativizing life - but The Way means meaning from encounter - encounter with God, helping us see ourselves as we are meant to be in Him and with others in Him, making our lives pleasing to Him. The solid path built of rock is one which comes by following faith and reason via encounter. This allows our intentions to be educated and our wisdom to grow with discernment and insight. This is not something most people wish to begin because it can be uncomfortable and turn life upside down when it happens. But it is necessary all the same to recognise that order from chaos is freeing as opposed to the opposite - people who live their own sense of personal truth who are living in a totalitarian liberality which in itself is a kind of relativism, a chaos, and poses as freedom but is simply a kind of swimming around in personal desire in which the individual is enslaved by personal whims and endless choices, with only a vague measure to choose between what is best and what is not; in addition, explaining their opposition to the Catholic Church which they see as a restricting institution - it restricts them from their selfs - if people don’t think sin is real then why would they think any different? Free us from what? Sin? Is this a joke? I don’t need to be saved etc…! This is why, going back to the thread, I think it is important to seriously ponder our footsteps before venturing outside the realms of the Christian faith which we have had handed down to us like bread lovingly being broken with us. I personally think that if we have to try alternative routes then it is because we are not embracing what we have already been given, which is not a relative understanding of Christianity and religion and life but the definite Way, Truth and Life. And once we recognise we have The Truth in our hearts, and approach Him in stillness and quiet, then He will help us to see and experience all the little truths that are part of the Kingdom, which is in Him.

I didn’t put your name on my previous post as I didn’t want to interrupt your in-depth dialogue with Syro.

I had something else to say too but got interrupted (it bugs when it happens).



God bless.