YOGA...ooer!

[cjforJesus]

I think we’ve pretty much gone over all this stuff a hundred-fold so I’m taking a long vacation, and unless there is an update extravaganza on the matter…

Live long and prosper!

:tiphat:

Friardchips,I found this piece about this so called energy of yoga.It seems to tie in with the fallen angels channeled by the founder of Theosophy. Lucifer sees mankind as a cancer to be eradicated. What is this so called “energy” people are attempting to access?

celebrity Barbara Marx Hubbard, one-time member of the Presidential Committee of National Curriculum and Democratic nominee for Vice President (1984) writes that the chosen elite (that is, the 10-20% of earth’s population who are judged fit to remain) will know they have received Initiation when they “instantly feel a subtle change of electricity in their bodies,” and when “I [an unidentified entity, presumably the Initiator, Lucifer] will be enabled to contact all of you at once.” (The Revelation, p.235-6) This new mankind, by then directly linked with the being who David Spangler calls “the angel of man’s evolution” (Reflections on the Christ, p.37), will continue on their journey to “godhood” at the new level, which includes a personal experience of the “knowledge of good and evil”. [Sounds like Genesis 3:5, and it’s meant to.] NAers confirm that this knowledge is what Lucifer offered to Eve in the Garden, and it’s being offered again today. Only it’s been misunderstood, due to fear inherited from the superstitious Jews. Since God has both a good and an evil side, and one cannot attain complete godhood with only one side. “Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it, then he is free and we are free. That is the Luciferic initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age.” (Spangler, Reflections, p.45)

 

[friardchips]

Friardchips,I found this piece about this so called energy of yoga.It seems to tie in with the fallen angels channeled by the founder of Theosophy. Lucifer sees mankind as a cancer to be eradicated. What is this so called “energy” people are attempting to access?

celebrity Barbara Marx Hubbard, one-time member of the Presidential Committee of National Curriculum and Democratic nominee for Vice President (1984) writes that the chosen elite (that is, the 10-20% of earth’s population who are judged fit to remain) will know they have received Initiation when they “instantly feel a subtle change of electricity in their bodies,” and when “I [an unidentified entity, presumably the Initiator, Lucifer] will be enabled to contact all of you at once.” (The Revelation, p.235-6) This new mankind, by then directly linked with the being who David Spangler calls “the angel of man’s evolution” (Reflections on the Christ, p.37), will continue on their journey to “godhood” at the new level, which includes a personal experience of the “knowledge of good and evil”. [Sounds like Genesis 3:5, and it’s meant to.] NAers confirm that this knowledge is what Lucifer offered to Eve in the Garden, and it’s being offered again today. Only it’s been misunderstood, due to fear inherited from the superstitious Jews. Since God has both a good and an evil side, and one cannot attain complete godhood with only one side. “Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it, then he is free and we are free. That is the Luciferic initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age.” (Spangler, Reflections, p.45)

I wasn’t going to post on here again but I had to point something out: our Creator is not both good and evil. Evil is the turning away from Him. From faith. From Reason. From LOVE. From giving. From life. Fro good. Look for Catholic perspectives on this in Catholic documents. This author might be right in part when he says about satan offering another chance to turn away from our Creator, but still, this is more convincing when coming from a Catholic priest.

 

[cjforJesus]

I wasn’t going to post on here again but I had to point something out: our Creator is not both good and evil. Evil is the turning away from Him. From faith. From Reason. From LOVE. From giving. From life. Fro good. Look for Catholic perspectives on this in Catholic documents. This author might be right in part when he says about satan offering another chance to turn away from our Creator, but still, this is more convincing when coming from a Catholic priest.

This did NOT come from a priest but from some research I was doing on the new age and kundalini.I am beginning to think this collective conscious they speak about is Maitreya,what they call the “world teacher” may be the spirit of kundalini.

 

[friardchips]

This did NOT come from a priest but from some research I was doing on the new age and kundalini.I am beginning to think this collective conscious they speak about is Maitreya,what they call the “world teacher” may be the spirit of kundalini.

I don’t know what or who ‘Maitreya’ is, I’ve never heard of the term. It sounds a bit like ‘Maya’, but to be honest, my point remains: trust your research from Catholic documents. The problem is getting info. from outside Catholic sources cannot not out and out be trusted when answering questions of a spritual nature.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I don’t know what or who ‘Maitreya’ is, I’ve never heard of the term. It sounds a bit like ‘Maya’, but to be honest, my point remains: trust your research from Catholic documents. The problem is getting info. from outside Catholic sources cannot not out and out be trusted when answering questions of a spritual nature.

Catholic sources are not always the best authorities on things that are not Catholic.

 

[friardchips]

Catholic sources are not always the best authorities on things that are not Catholic.

In terms of researching sources from non-Catholic documents, from a Christian perspective, this is okay I am guessing only when using the non-Christian reference points to compare and evaluate up against Christian sources.

 

[friardchips]

cjforj…I would thoroughly encourage you, instead of citing ideas from people whose authority is difficult to establish, to keep up-to-date with current Church thinking:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

This document is worth reading all the way through. We could do with being very grateful for it.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

cjforj…I would thoroughly encourage you, instead of citing ideas from people whose authority is difficult to establish, to keep up-to-date with current Church thinking:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

This document is worth reading all the way through. We could do with being very grateful for it.

Yes and the most helpful part is toward the end:

4 NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN FAITH IN CONTRAST

The following questions may be the easiest key to evaluating some of the central elements of New Age thought and practice from a Christian standpoint.

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?
• The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?
• Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?
• Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?
• Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?
• Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?
• Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?
• Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?
• Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?

These are good things for evaluating our motives and approach to all things.

 

[friardchips]

Yes and the most helpful part is toward the end:

4 NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN FAITH IN CONTRAST

The following questions may be the easiest key to evaluating some of the central elements of New Age thought and practice from a Christian standpoint.

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed?
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs?
• The human being: is there one universal being or are there many individuals?
• Do we save ourselves or is salvation a free gift from God?
• Do we invent truth or do we embrace it?
• Prayer and meditation: are we talking to ourselves or to God?
• Are we tempted to deny sin or do we accept that there is such a thing?
• Are we encouraged to reject or accept suffering and death?
• Is social commitment something shirked or positively sought after?
• Is our future in the stars or do we help to construct it?

These are good things for evaluating our motives and approach to all things.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Is this Yoga or Danish Gymnastics?

em-poweredwellness.com/2015/02/10/danish-gymnastics-the-root-of-yoga-asanas/

 

[friardchips]

Is this Yoga or Danish Gymnastics?

Interesting article but how can you be sure this article is true: who was it written by?; why did the author write it?; are there any other trustworthy sources to back this up?; how does this configure with other material which is in opposition to what this author puts forward?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Interesting article but how can you be sure this article is true: who was it written by?; why did the author write it?; are there any other trustworthy sources to back this up?; how does this configure with other material which is in opposition to what this author puts forward?

Google Danish Gymnastics

 

[friardchips]

Google Danish Gymnastics

Why?!! The thread is about Yoga from a Christian perspective and refers to the Pope’s comments. I take what he says as being a trustworthy declaration because he is the Pope and because his words resonate as truth with me after having spent plenty of time cogitating on the subject. But your opinion seems to be at odds with his advice, and so at odds with the Christian perspective, so it is not my part to look up Danish gymnastics! Google is not an expert in the Yoga field, it is a search engine hotpot of additions by lots of people, wide and far, some who know something, some who think they do. Which underlines the need for thorough investigation into certain material posted online. Discernment in the modern world I think incorporates such care when browsing online for info. You just posted a very important section earlier, saving me from having to do it, that outlined how we should approach all subjects, measuring them up against our own Catholic faith, and so, this is also wise advice for those who undertake Yoga. You posted this Danish gymnast link so it is your part to measure it up against the criteria from the Vatican document!

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Why?!! The thread is about Yoga from a Christian perspective and refers to the Pope’s comments. I take what he says as being a trustworthy declaration because he is the Pope and because his words resonate as truth with me after having spent plenty of time cogitating on the subject. But your opinion seems to be at odds with his advice, and so at odds with the Christian perspective, so it is not my part to look up Danish gymnastics! Google is not an expert in the Yoga field, it is a search engine hotpot of additions by lots of people, wide and far, some who know something, some who think they do. Which underlines the need for thorough investigation into certain material posted online. Discernment in the modern world I think incorporates such care when browsing online for info. You just posted a very important section earlier, saving me from having to do it, that outlined how we should approach all subjects, measuring them up against our own Catholic faith, and so, this is also wise advice for those who undertake Yoga. You posted this Danish gymnast link so it is your part to measure it up against the criteria from the Vatican document!

How is my opinion at odds with the Pope’s advice?

The articles point out the fact that moves and postures can originate from other times and places even thought they resemble yoga moves and postures. The articles argue that many of the moves and postures may have been adopted by Yoga from other sources. In other words, there is nothing inherent in the moves or postures that ties them to supernatural forces.

**You seem unable to seperate the postures from yoga philosophy **even though the articles relate the postures to a completely different secular philosophy of health. So when the criteria from the Vatican document are applied there is no cause for concern because:

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed? Postures have nothing to do with one’s view of God.
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs? Again, the postures make no statement about Jesus.

Etc, Etc.

 

[friardchips]

How is my opinion at odds with the Pope’s advice?

The articles point out the fact that moves and postures can originate from other times and places even thought they resemble yoga moves and postures. The articles argue that many of the moves and postures may have been adopted by Yoga from other sources. In other words, there is nothing inherent in the moves or postures that ties them to supernatural forces.

**You seem unable to seperate the postures from yoga philosophy **even though the articles relate the postures to a completely different secular philosophy of health. So when the criteria from the Vatican document are applied there is no cause for concern because:

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed? Postures have nothing to do with one’s view of God.
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs? Again, the postures make no statement about Jesus.

Etc, Etc.

This is a well-reasoned post, IMO. What you are doing by comparing against the Vatican document, to seek what is good and true, makes far more sense to me than a lot of what has gone before in this thread. Nevertheless, for the sake of well-grounded argument, the same questions remain: who and when and why was this article written?; is this article trustworthy based on the information collated from further investigation into questioning the source of the article, or from, questioning it.

One other question to do with Yoga when praying: when pulling off Yoga positions, when praying, what angle is the head during the process of forming these positions?

 

[jilly4ski]

One other question to do with Yoga when praying: when pulling off Yoga positions, when praying, what angle is the head during the process of forming these positions?

Does it matter? Lets put it another way.

One other question to do with Running when praying: when pulling off running positions, when praying, what angle is the head during the process of forming these positions?

See how irrelevant this question is? There is nothing inherently good or bad about the angle of ones head while praying. I using running because I have actually reached a form of meditation while running, (runners call it the ‘zone’) which I have never achieved while doing Yoga.

 

[friardchips]

Does it matter? Lets put it another way.

One other question to do with Running when praying: when pulling off running positions, when praying, what angle is the head during the process of forming these positions?

See how irrelevant this question is? There is nothing inherently good or bad about the angle of ones head while praying. I using running because I have actually reached a form of meditation while running, (runners call it the ‘zone’) which I have never achieved while doing Yoga.

The question of the position of the head does matter. Before I answer your post though, which I am grateful for, I wish to say categoricaly: yes, it matters! It matters because we are Christians, and if we are Christians, then our faith (should) matter to us before anything else. We should sell everything we have if it means protecting our faith.

Two answers to your post:

First, a question I put to Christofirst, was about praying when working or working when praying. This matters because it is a matter of more depth than respect, but rather one of love: to lovingly sit, patiently listening to someone, is an act of love. So if I were to busy myself at the same time as listening to someone then in one of two circumstances this could be considered an insensitive act - to work while one prays. The other scenario which is okay, I think, is to be praying while one works, IOW, not a premediated and planned time set aside to be spent in the company of our Creator; for example, I might do something and spontaneously decide to offer it up, or I might be undergoing a trial and decide to pray, or I might have some sport to do during the day and decide to busy my mind with prayer. Christofirst suggested one can do both at the same time, but of course this is an unreasonable statement, because one can’t just be praying, and praying and working, both at the same time, as we are not omni-present. So one is either praying while one works or working while one prays. And so my point here is that to be busying oneself by putting the position in such a high order of priority during time set aside soley for prayer and nothing else is, I think, idol worship, or in more personal language, a bit insensitive towards our Creator.

The question about the head position in Yoga is also connected to the first response as it extends the subject of humility. I wish to use the example of the person who truly magnified Our Lord during the Bible accounts and in Apparitions. In the Bible, Mary’s example was one of humility in humble service to Our Lord so that He was soley glorified in Scripture. Her attention was on Him. And in the apparitions of Our Lady, her head was revealed to be slightly bowing forward, which signifies dutiful love and obedience, adoration, to and for Our Creator, and then we do not mistake her for a false apparition posing as an “angel of light”. Our Lady’s head was bent slightly forward in holy reverence while she prayed the Rosary during the apparitions. So if Our Lady, first in the order of grace, stood with her head bowed in reverence during prayer, I think the (simple) position of the body, and in this case, the head, not only matters, but is a matter of faith. Sure, we all look up in wonder from time to time but do Yoga positions ever allow for and permit such reverence?

 

[jilly4ski]

The question of the position of the head does matter. Before I answer your post though, which I am grateful for, I wish to say categoricaly: yes, it matters! It matters because we are Christians, and if we are Christians, then our faith (should) matter to us before anything else. We should sell everything we have if it means protecting our faith.

Two answers to your post:

First, a question I put to Christofirst, was about praying when working or working when praying. This matters because it is a matter of more depth than respect, but rather one of love: to lovingly sit, patiently listening to someone, is an act of love. So if I were to busy myself at the same time as listening to someone then in one of two circumstances this could be considered an insensitive act - to work while one prays. The other scenario which is okay, I think, is to be praying while one works, IOW, not a premediated and planned time set aside to be spent in the company of our Creator; for example, I might do something and spontaneously decide to offer it up, or I might be undergoing a trial and decide to pray, or I might have some sport to do during the day and decide to busy my mind with prayer. Christofirst suggested one can do both at the same time, but of course this is an unreasonable statement, because one can’t just be praying, and praying and working, both at the same time, as we are not omni-present. So one is either praying while one works or working while one prays. And so my point here is that to be busying oneself by putting the position in such a high order of priority during time set aside soley for prayer and nothing else is, I think, idol worship, or in more personal language, a bit insensitive towards our Creator.

The question about the head position in Yoga is also connected to the first response as it extends the subject of humility. I wish to use the example of the person who truly magnified Our Lord during the Bible accounts and in Apparitions. In the Bible, Mary’s example was one of humility in humble service to Our Lord so that He was soley glorified in Scripture. Her attention was on Him. And in the apparitions of Our Lady, her head was revealed to be slightly bowing forward, which signifies dutiful love and obedience, adoration, to and for Our Creator, and then we do not mistake her for a false apparition posing as an “angel of light”. Our Lady’s head was bent slightly forward in holy reverence while she prayed the Rosary during the apparitions. So if Our Lady, first in the order of grace, stood with her head bowed in reverence during prayer, I think the (simple) position of the body, and in this case, the head, not only matters, but is a matter of faith. Sure, we all look up in wonder from time to time but do Yoga positions ever allow for and permit such reverence?

Umm, I was specifically referencing the angle of the head, not the faith in general (yes, I agree our faith is important).

So first, I would say it depends on the person. Some people who do Christianized yoga, do the yoga to put them in a meditative state in order to be more receptive to God’s word, thus yoga becomes a form of prayer. The other way, is those people who make everything they do a form of prayer, even while not explicitly praying. Parents are indeed tend to become adept that this, they are being like Christ as they care for their child and do the chores, and sacrifice for their family. Their work has become a prayer. But this can follow to everything a person does. Their work, fun and entertainment, their home, etc.

Second, humility does not work merely by taking a certain posture. It is the intent that counts. The posture might help one feel more unworthy before God, but anyone can take a humble looking posture. Are you familiar with yoga (westernized) at all. At least half the postures one is looking at the floor, while another large amount have the person looking straight ahead, (good posture is very important in yoga and they tell you to imagine a string attached to the top of your head to that it is in an ergonomic position), and a small minority have one looking upwards, though usually only in a fluid motion. Like one motion you sweep your arms above your head and look up, and then bring your hand down into a prayer position and you look straight ahead.

Yoga uses the prayer position for the hands, does that mean that Christians can’t put their hands in the prayer position, because they are actually worshiping kundini?

 

[Contarini]

How is my opinion at odds with the Pope’s advice?

The articles point out the fact that moves and postures can originate from other times and places even thought they resemble yoga moves and postures. The articles argue that many of the moves and postures may have been adopted by Yoga from other sources. In other words, there is nothing inherent in the moves or postures that ties them to supernatural forces.

**You seem unable to seperate the postures from yoga philosophy **even though the articles relate the postures to a completely different secular philosophy of health. So when the criteria from the Vatican document are applied there is no cause for concern because:

• Is God a being with whom we have a relationship or something to be used or a force to be harnessed? Postures have nothing to do with one’s view of God.
• Is there just one Jesus Christ, or are there thousands of Christs? Again, the postures make no statement about Jesus.

Etc, Etc.

But you are blatantly misreading the Pope, since obviously he did not intend to condemn catechesis.

You obviously have an axe to grind and are twisting the Pope’s words to support your silly crusade.

Edwin

 

[Michael_Mayo]

But you are blatantly misreading the Pope, since obviously he did not intend to condemn catechesis.

You obviously have an axe to grind and are twisting the Pope’s words to support your silly crusade.

Edwin

How so?