cjforJ…wrote this:
You missed my point on baptism,Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit. This occurs at baptism and is very necessary in Christianity. We die to ourselves and rise as new children in Christ. Baptism is not a symbol but a reality, proven when Jesus submitted to John baptising Him though technically he did not need to repent of anything,
In the instant of Baptism all three members of the Holy Trinity were present. Jesus,the HOly Spirit as a dove.and God the Father by His voice. This is very significant and there is no parallel in any other faith.
You answered with this:
Can any sinner have a true conversion without the Holy Trinity regardless of the particular faith. In other words isn’t God present, and in fact the provider of grace, at every true conversion?
Then to this:
Originally Posted by friardchips
So, recognising what we know through faith and reason: we not only believe we have the “best”, as if there are any real comparable alternatives, but we know we have The Way, The Truth and The Life, we must in turn also believe that the conversions differ in depth and meaning from religion to religion, as our understanding of The Way, The Truth and The Life is specific with no room for ambiguity, and the “true conversion” is therefore one that orients oneself in line with the Creator who we know to be The Way, The Truth and The Life, from the Catholic Bible?
You wrote this:
You are narrowing the definition of “true conversion” to “Christian” or even “Catholic” conversion.
I think it can be wider as is evident by the many good and faithful people of many religions who have a relationship with God their creator.
All true conversion leads to knowledge, eventually, of the person of our Lord, in person, not just as an other-worldly, cosmic supreme deity.
The deeper conversion we have as we go along, the more specific we get, we get personal, we get into personal relationship with The Holy Trinity. This is not impersonal, or ambiguous; it is definite, mysterious, yet uniquely personal.
We were not told in today’s (now yesterday’s) reading, to: go forth and convert to Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and whatever else; we were, in Scripture, told to “
go forth and baptise the nations in the name of the Father, and of The Son and of the Holy Spirit”.
This command is very specific and not ambiguous in the slightest.
So, yes, members of other religions might have some conversion towards our Creator, and if they come to a fuller realisation of the person of our Lord as Divine, then we can say they have arrived at some deeper knowledge, and up until that point might be well on
the way, but to say their belief systems are comparable with the knowledge directly received by us and lived, from and by our Creator, Himself, truly makes no sense coming from a baptised, practicing Christian.
It is religious relativism, if so.
As Christians we realise there is no greater gift than of Our Lord Himself and who delights in presenting Himself to us. So yes. He, specifically, IS The Way, The Truth and The Life.
This is understanding free from progressive theories. Sure, people can be on a way towards knowing Him more personally, but until such time, still have a more primitive understanding. And so, if we use these other primitive theories then we are stepping back outside of fuller knowlede into
unknowns and ambiguities.
Do not forget, Our Lord did come to be for all people. Gentiles are non-Jews. So Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, all people of faith, are offered the same opportunity to recognise our Lord as King and Saviour. It is not as if we seek to keep Him to ourselves, the Christian is called to “
proclaim the Good News”. Not proclaim progressive non-Christian theories and philosophies. Learning about them for evangelising, maybe; for our own faith life, and in spreading the Good News, we are called to be specific - specific in our prayers, in our worship. Why might we want to proclaim anything else!
