You don't risk going to Hell if you were never born

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Really? Even if your chances of eternal life are .0001% and eternal torture are 99.999?
Stop saying this. No one knows this and it is NOT a Catholic viewpoint.

***“Are you saved?” asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).” ***
 
Amen.
The only folks who “risk” are those selfish people who don’t WANT to teach a child in a faith.
Who don’t WANT to take the time to teach them morals.
Those who don’t WANT to do the heavy lifting of parenthood…which is a beautiful vocation.

It’s selfishness. Plain and simple. “I can’t be bothered with doing the right thing. I don’t want to be BURDENED with teaching another human”.

In a way, I’m kind of grateful that these navel gazers don’t reproduce. How miserable their children would be… …because their parents are “glass half full” types of people.
Those who look for pain, tend to find it.
Actually all the child needs to do is have sex with his girlfriend at 16 years old and then die in a car accident on his way home and he has eternal torture. You could raise them near perfect, but one slip up and you’re burning forever and ever and ever and ever…yep still burning billions of years later…
 
Actually all the child needs to do is have sex with his girlfriend at 16 years old and then die in a car accident on his way home and he has eternal torture. You could raise them near perfect, but one slip up and you’re burning forever and ever and ever and ever…yep still burning billions of years later…
What is your faith?
Why are you here trying to tell Catholics they don’t know their own faith?
What do you hope to gain?
Leading folks astray is quite the sin.
You appear unafraid, so I guess none of us should worry.
 
Actually all the child needs to do is have sex with his girlfriend at 16 years old and then die in a car accident on his way home and he has eternal torture. You could raise them near perfect, but one slip up and you’re burning forever and ever and ever and ever…yep still burning billions of years later…
That is, if the person was culpable and did not repent of it before dying. We do not know the details in this scenario. Mortal sin, from the Catechism:

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him. …

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
 
What is your faith?
Why are you here trying to tell Catholics they don’t know their own faith?
What do you hope to gain?
Leading folks astray is quite the sin.
You appear unafraid, so I guess none of us should worry.
Oh, quite the opposite. I am afraid to near insanity. The fear has literally ruined the last several years of my life. I want to gauge if anyone struggles with it as much as I do.
 
But if you want to go there, try this:

All told, it is good that God has left us without exact information. If we knew that virtually everybody would be damned, we would be tempted to despair. If we knew that all, or nearly all, are saved, we might become presumptuous. If we knew that some fixed percent, say fifty, would be saved, we would be caught in an unholy rivalry. We would rejoice in every sign that others were among the lost, since our own chances of election would thereby be increased. Such a competitive spirit would hardly be compatible with the gospel.

We are forbidden to seek our own salvation in a selfish and egotistical way. We are keepers of our brothers and sisters. The more we work for their salvation, the more of God’s favor we can expect for ourselves. Those of us who believe and make use of the means that God has provided for the forgiveness of sins and the reform of life have no reason to fear. We can be sure that Christ, who died on the Cross for us, will not fail to give us the grace we need. We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, and that if we persevere in that love, nothing whatever can separate us from Christ (cf. Romans 8:28-39). That is all the assurance we can have, and it should be enough.

Avery Cardinal Dulles, S.J., holds the Laurence J. McGinley Chair in Religion and Society at Fordham University. This essay is adapted from his Laurence J. McGinley Lecture delivered at Fordham University on November 20, 2002.
 
But if you want to go there, try this:

All told, it is good that God has left us without exact information. If we knew that virtually everybody would be damned, we would be tempted to despair. If we knew that all, or nearly all, are saved, we might become presumptuous. If we knew that some fixed percent, say fifty, would be saved, we would be caught in an unholy rivalry. We would rejoice in every sign that others were among the lost, since our own chances of election would thereby be increased. Such a competitive spirit would hardly be compatible with the gospel.

We are forbidden to seek our own salvation in a selfish and egotistical way. We are keepers of our brothers and sisters. The more we work for their salvation, the more of God’s favor we can expect for ourselves. Those of us who believe and make use of the means that God has provided for the forgiveness of sins and the reform of life have no reason to fear. We can be sure that Christ, who died on the Cross for us, will not fail to give us the grace we need. We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, and that if we persevere in that love, nothing whatever can separate us from Christ (cf. Romans 8:28-39). That is all the assurance we can have, and it should be enough.

Avery Cardinal Dulles, S.J., holds the Laurence J. McGinley Chair in Religion and Society at Fordham University. This essay is adapted from his Laurence J. McGinley Lecture delivered at Fordham University on November 20, 2002.
OK, this tends to make much more sense, but could possibly be thought of as modern “laxed” thinking. Thoughts?
 
Ok, I agree totally. But is it not scary that many Saints talk about few being saved, along with Scripture?
Did you listen to the end of that sermon? At the very end, St. Leonard quotes St. Thomas saying that whoever wants to be saved will be saved. This is also Catholic teaching.

You mention the adolescent sinning and being damned. This is comparable to one is driving on the road, and wilfully turning the wheel, hitting pedestrians. This person made a quick decision, but they are still guilty of murder because full consent to murder didn’t require a long time to take place. Even so, the courts will still find him guilty of a very serious felony. Likewise, it generally doesn’t take much for someone to give full consent to offending God. That said, it still is a decision that one must freely choose.
 
Did you listen to the end of that sermon? At the very end, St. Leonard quotes St. Thomas saying that whoever wants to be saved will be saved. This is also Catholic teaching.

You mention the adolescent sinning and being damned. This is comparable to one is driving on the road, and wilfully turning the wheel, hitting pedestrians. This person made a quick decision, but they are still guilty of murder because full consent to murder didn’t require a long time to take place. Even so, the courts will still find him guilty of a very serious felony. Likewise, it generally doesn’t take much for someone to give full consent to offending God. That said, it still is a decision that one must freely choose.
But what does it mean to want to be saved? I mean truly want to be saved? I want to be saved. My life has been a living hell. Now I have physical and mental problems that make it even more so. I want to be saved, but there is a good chance I will drive myself insane which will probably lead to my own self destruction. I have a hard time believing that just because I want to be saved, that I will be.
 
Actually all the child needs to do is have sex with his girlfriend at 16 years old and then die in a car accident on his way home and he has eternal torture. You could raise them near perfect, but one slip up and you’re burning forever and ever and ever and ever…yep still burning billions of years later…
It is not “one slip”. It is a choice; and actually, it is a series of choices.

“one slip” is the mantra of people who are not willing to face the fact that they make choices, and those choices have consequences.

"Oh, I made a “mistake”.

No, that was not a mistake. A mistake is wearing a polka dot tie with a stripped shirt.

It was a choice;; and it was a choice for evil, not for good. In old fashioned language, which didn’t weasel about choices, that was a sin.

But with the “new” definition of morality, no one sins - they just make “mistakes”.

The Bible, however, was not built on secularism and word games.

Which is not to say that God does not have mercy - that was exhibited by Christ on the cross, to the “good thief” (Luke 23: 39-43); but mercy is not a “get-out-of-jail-card”; it requires repentance.

You are playing a word game on about the level of a sophomore. “But!” “But!” “But!”. There is nothing particularly hard about what it takes to get to heaven:: “Love one another as I have loved you” is a self-giving, sacrificial placing of the other’s needs over your own wants. Not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

But due to our own selfish and self-centered predilections, it is hard to do. Clearly not impossible, but definitely hard, because we want what we want - not what Christ asks of us.

It is really kind of simple. I seriously doubt that you would have a best friend who was selfish and self centered, and used you for whatever they want, never mind what it costs of you.

You might say they are a “best friend”, but in truth what they are is an acquaintance. Friends don’t use friends.

And Christ expects the same from us.

And your 16 year old doesn’t “have eternal torture”. He creates that torture. God doesn’t send him to hell; he chooses hell. Oh - there is that word “choice” again.

As long as you want to go around treating choices you or others make as “mistakes”, there is no intelligent conversation which can be had, because to do so is to be in total denial that you or others make a choice, and that is choosing evil over good.

A mistake is walking out the door and locking it behind you without checking to see if you have the key to get back in.

The attitude that “I made a mistake” is part and parcel of why we have over 59,600,000 abortions since Roe vs. Wade - because people choose evil over good. It has consequences (a baby), and they don’t want to deal with it, so they kill the baby. But that baby was not a “mistake” it was the natural result of intercourse, and intercourse outside of marriage is not a mistake; it is a choice. And it is a choice of evil, not good.
 
But what does it mean to want to be saved? I mean truly want to be saved? I want to be saved. My life has been a living hell. Now I have physical and mental problems that make it even more so. I want to be saved, but there is a good chance I will drive myself insane which will probably lead to my own self destruction. I have a hard time believing that just because I want to be saved, that I will be.
There is no magic bullet here.

God knows you far better than any of us do. Do you honestly think that He–who took such pains to create you, who desires you to be with Him forever–is just going to sit back and let you go? That’s He’s just waiting for you to slip up and plans to say, “Da-n you” for it, ignoring the ‘thousands of times’ you did something ‘right’, as if it’s all some deep evil plot of his to see how many people He can tempt and then write off?

And it would certainly be a presumption to think, “I want to be saved, therefore I will be, because God loves me” --that is, putting the whole onto God, without any effort on your part. . .

just as much as it is despair to think, “I want to be saved, but It’s so unlikely because I’m just so evil and God will ignore all my good and I’ll be caught unknowingly and unwittingly in mortal sin and never even get a chance, so I’m paralyzed with fear–and the only effort I make now is internet posting to complain about the fear and the unfairness and how bad it is”. . .

We have your word about your mental/emotional difficulties, so certainly that’s a factor to take into account --but all of us struggle with fear and doubt and all of us have crosses to bear. Yours might be an anxiety condition–others could struggle with spiritual pride, with especially demanding proclivities or physical situations which put extreme temptation in their way constantly–none of us is living some perfect life where we sit back all secure in our destiny and either deride or condemn others who struggle.

In the nicest possible (I hope) way, I’d like to suggest to you that, until you feel more secure in your faith, you ignore these types of topics; in fact, ignore the internet itself. Instead of that, go to the Rosary. Pray the mysteries. Let Mary help. Don’t get caught up in the eternal loop of worry. Just say those prayers, and just think even of simply the titles of the mystery, don’t start going off on tangents, until you’re more comfortable. “The Annunciation”. “The Visitation”. The Nativity". . .Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be. . .The rosary is a potent weapon against evil as well as being a powerful ‘tonic’ for your prayer health. Instead of spending an hour or two on the internet, spend those hours saying the rosary in your church’s adoration chapel, or in a quiet setting, outdoors or in, and just let yourself PRAY.
 
Did you listen to the end of that sermon? At the very end, St. Leonard quotes St. Thomas saying that whoever wants to be saved will be saved. This is also Catholic teaching.
Catholic teaching is a bit more complex than “wanting to be saved”; it requires that one acts on that want - meaning, choosing good instead of evil. And when one chooses evil, it means repenting of that evil; it means sinning no more and avoiding the near occasion of sin.
 
It is not “one slip”. It is a choice; and actually, it is a series of choices.

“one slip” is the mantra of people who are not willing to face the fact that they make choices, and those choices have consequences.

"Oh, I made a “mistake”.

No, that was not a mistake. A mistake is wearing a polka dot tie with a stripped shirt.

It was a choice;; and it was a choice for evil, not for good. In old fashioned language, which didn’t weasel about choices, that was a sin.

But with the “new” definition of morality, no one sins - they just make “mistakes”.

The Bible, however, was not built on secularism and word games.

Which is not to say that God does not have mercy - that was exhibited by Christ on the cross, to the “good thief” (Luke 23: 39-43); but mercy is not a “get-out-of-jail-card”; it requires repentance.

You are playing a word game on about the level of a sophomore. “But!” “But!” “But!”. There is nothing particularly hard about what it takes to get to heaven:: “Love one another as I have loved you” is a self-giving, sacrificial placing of the other’s needs over your own wants. Not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

But due to our own selfish and self-centered predilections, it is hard to do. Clearly not impossible, but definitely hard, because we want what we want - not what Christ asks of us.

It is really kind of simple. I seriously doubt that you would have a best friend who was selfish and self centered, and used you for whatever they want, never mind what it costs of you.

You might say they are a “best friend”, but in truth what they are is an acquaintance. Friends don’t use friends.

And Christ expects the same from us.

And your 16 year old doesn’t “have eternal torture”. He creates that torture. God doesn’t send him to hell; he chooses hell. Oh - there is that word “choice” again.

As long as you want to go around treating choices you or others make as “mistakes”, there is no intelligent conversation which can be had, because to do so is to be in total denial that you or others make a choice, and that is choosing evil over good.

A mistake is walking out the door and locking it behind you without checking to see if you have the key to get back in.

The attitude that “I made a mistake” is part and parcel of why we have over 59,600,000 abortions since Roe vs. Wade - because people choose evil over good. It has consequences (a baby), and they don’t want to deal with it, so they kill the baby. But that baby was not a “mistake” it was the natural result of intercourse, and intercourse outside of marriage is not a mistake; it is a choice. And it is a choice of evil, not good.
His overactive hormones allowed him to make a mistake of eternal proportions. However, our great theologian that basically “created” eternal Hell, was a sex-crazed maniac in his young days and even had a son out of wedlock with a mistress.
 
There is no magic bullet here.

God knows you far better than any of us do. Do you honestly think that He–who took such pains to create you, who desires you to be with Him forever–is just going to sit back and let you go? That’s He’s just waiting for you to slip up and plans to say, “Da-n you” for it, ignoring the ‘thousands of times’ you did something ‘right’, as if it’s all some deep evil plot of his to see how many people He can tempt and then write off?

And it would certainly be a presumption to think, “I want to be saved, therefore I will be, because God loves me” --that is, putting the whole onto God, without any effort on your part. . .

just as much as it is despair to think, “I want to be saved, but It’s so unlikely because I’m just so evil and God will ignore all my good and I’ll be caught unknowingly and unwittingly in mortal sin and never even get a chance, so I’m paralyzed with fear–and the only effort I make now is internet posting to complain about the fear and the unfairness and how bad it is”. . .

We have your word about your mental/emotional difficulties, so certainly that’s a factor to take into account --but all of us struggle with fear and doubt and all of us have crosses to bear. Yours might be an anxiety condition–others could struggle with spiritual pride, with especially demanding proclivities or physical situations which put extreme temptation in their way constantly–none of us is living some perfect life where we sit back all secure in our destiny and either deride or condemn others who struggle.

In the nicest possible (I hope) way, I’d like to suggest to you that, until you feel more secure in your faith, you ignore these types of topics; in fact, ignore the internet itself. Instead of that, go to the Rosary. Pray the mysteries. Let Mary help. Don’t get caught up in the eternal loop of worry. Just say those prayers, and just think even of simply the titles of the mystery, don’t start going off on tangents, until you’re more comfortable. “The Annunciation”. “The Visitation”. The Nativity". . .Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be. . .The rosary is a potent weapon against evil as well as being a powerful ‘tonic’ for your prayer health. Instead of spending an hour or two on the internet, spend those hours saying the rosary in your church’s adoration chapel, or in a quiet setting, outdoors or in, and just let yourself PRAY.
Well, I’m basically trapped in my house due to mental and physical issues. I pray quite a bit (but never enough) so I try to get into some conversations online. I do have some doubts about the teachings, because I do not believe very many people totally go by them. I think once people see their loved one die and knowing they weren’t that religious, they are in denial of that person being tortured forever…even though that’s what the church teaches.

I appreciate the advice and I will try to change some things to hopefully help my mind.
 
His overactive hormones allowed him to make a mistake of eternal proportions. However, our great theologian that basically “created” eternal Hell, was a sex-crazed maniac in his young days and even had a son out of wedlock with a mistress.
No human being invented hell.
It’s mentioned all over the place in Scripture.
 
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