Young people are leaving in droves 2

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Funny thing is, when I look at people who left, they either say that they’re ‘spiritual and not religious’ (they don’t like Catholic practices, confession, solemn praying etc) or that they simply don’t believe (that the Christian/Catholic God is real).

I think the latin mass would heighten religiosity in people who wouldn’t leave just yet. Anyways, if you stay just because of how beautiful something is rather than genuinely believing in the truth, I would say it’s a pretty misguided reason.

I don’t claim to have any answers though. I think my age group would have preferred stronger education. Most of us literally do not know most things. And when we are told what not to do, it’s always in such a rigid, legalistic manner.

It also doesn’t help when society right now values absolute freedom to do whatever you want. There seems to be no incentive to stay in the Church and deny yourself all the pleasures of life, if that makes sense.
 
What did our Lord do in John 6 when most of His disciples left Him? Should we not emulate our Lord?
 
Doesn’t Bible prophecy tell us that belief would dwindle in the last days?
 
A colleague told me recently he’d read a study made by the CofE (I’ve no better references for it, I’ll try to track it down) according to which 75% of Christians who really practice have had exposure to the faith and a family prayer life between ages 0-4. If that’s true, it shows how much begins at home, with the parents. The “let’s not teach them anything and leave them to decide by themselves when they’re grown” mindset is one of the biggest problems in my part of the world, and I’m not confident that the TLM, however beautiful and reverent, can solve it.
 
ProVobis said:
Along with the centuries of music that was inspired by this beautiful Latin Mass, which still lives on. Bach, Mozart, Palestrina etc.
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None of which is sung by the congregation.

One of the reasons why I remain uninterested in the Latin Mass is that there is no provision for singing of psalms and hymns by the congregation.

I am currently studying the history of church music, and this exclusion of the congregation was deliberate beginning around the 8th Century of the Church. Up until then, the congregation sang during the Mass, but once Gregorian chant gained prominence, the congregation was gradually excluded, and the singing of the various parts of the Mass became the job of the cantors and choir while the people sat mute in the pews.

I find this taking away the privilege of the congregation to sing to the Lord unacceptable, and I am very glad that the Vatican II Council gave us back our singing voices during the Mass!

When I have attended or played for the Latin Mass in our city (Institute of Christ the King), I definitely miss the singing of hymns. IF the rubrics were changed (not likely) to bring congregational singing into the Mass, that might possibly make a difference to me, but to sit without singing in the Presence of the Lord–no.

It’s just possible that one reason why some young people find themselves attracted to the Latin Mass is because they don’t like to sing, mainly because many public schools have virtually eliminated music in their curriculum to make more room in the school day for more “relevant” subjects, especially STEMC subjects. Even in our city’s Catholic schools, there is only one school with a certified music teacher who teaches traditional music education (theory, notation, singing technique, reading music, etc.) and requires them to sing in the Mass children’s choir once a month.

Many young people have never sung in any kind of choir, but have only LISTENED to music as “entertainment.” So to sit in the pews not singing is more desirable to them instead of opening a hymnal, reading music (which they are unable to do), and singing (which they don’t know how to do correctly).
 
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Hello phil3,
I have heard of that difficulty with the Catechism, from other adults. I simply forgot my own past experience in recommending it without also recommending some time “getting accustomed” to it - to the “style” of the Catechism, which is very dense in meaning - and which requires reading very slowly, very attentively to every word. It is not all that different from Holy Scripture in that way - meaning that every word written in the Catechism (as also Holy Scripture) is important, and that every word must be heard and considered, in seeking to understand all the meaning that must be heard to understand it fully.

I also can add this: Pope Benedict saw to it that a briefer source of Doctrine was made available, as an alternative (or supplement) to the (full) Catechism - thus, The Compendium to the Catechism of the Catholic Church has been published and is also available:
-free to read on Vatican website,
-for sale on Amazon,

The Compendium is much briefer, and in “Question - Answer” format, following the lead of the Baltimore Catechism. You can look it over on the first link above, and maybe you will find it more readable than the full Catechism. The Compendium is fully linked to the full Catechism, so the latter can be a back-up resource to expand upon the Compendium, if the Compendium turns out to be usable to you. Again, however, read it slowly, little at a time, patiently and prayerfully, because it all is “dense” with meaning. God will bless the effort!
 
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Peeps said:
None of which is sung by the congregation.
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Those who wished to sing joined a choir. Our choirs were quite large and practiced a lot.

Maybe Protestants sing more but generally Catholics don’t and they’ll find any reason not to.
 
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I will meet the OP halfway, and agree that the solution is not making the liturgy more relevant. I rather think that people leaving the Church is another symptom of the secularization of the Western culture. Movies, media, politics, schools, have all increasingly moved aware from belief and knowledge of God. The only solution I have heard that makes sense is from Peter Kreeft, that is, that we set our eyes on becoming the saints we are all called to be. It is not until those around us see Jesus in us that he will be lifted up, drawing all to Him.

I recommend that instead of national numbers, everyone look to their own sphere, be it their city, their work, or just their friends, as the place to where Jesus must be lifted up in them. Rinse and repeat.
 
Right, Fide. I’d also say, Start young. Let your kids see you attending church several times a week, doing the Rosary at home, saying grace, etc. Kids are “Monkey See, Monkey Do.” Later on, they will give it some rational thought, but start their feet on the Catholic road at a very young age. They may leave, but they have something to “come back” to. Without the firm foundation, they have nothing.
 
Shasta-Rose said:
Let your kids see you attending church several times a week, doing the Rosary at home, saying grace, etc.
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This is so true. A friend of mine attends 6:30 a.m. Mass during the week and has for years. About ten years ago, his kids put together a Christmas gift for him - each of them listed ten things they liked/admired about him (did this for their mother as well). One of the kids, who was about eighteen at the time, listed “You go to Daily Mass” as one of the qualities of the dad they admired.

They’re watching…and listening.
 
Peeps said:
It’s just possible that one reason why some young people find themselves attracted to the Latin Mass is because they don’t like to sing
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I’ve never been to a sung Latin Mass where the congregation did not sing.
 
Well-said, and very important, Shasta-Rose. If religion is “kid stuff”, it will be rejected asap after adolescence. I’ve seen too many parents sitting in the car reading the newspaper, waiting for “the kids” to get out of their religious ed class. Meanwhile, adult formation groups that are actually forming adults, go wanting.
 
snarflemike said:
I’ve never been to a sung Latin Mass where the congregation did not sing.
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Does your parish do sung Masses regularly? Ours doesn’t. I’ve never seen them do a Mass where the congregation sings. It’s always the schola, which is almost all male.

And does the congregation sing hymns, or just the responses?

Thanks.
 
snarflemike said:
Responses and the entire Ordinary.
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But not hymns or songs. You see, that’s what I’m getting at. The responses and ordinary are chanted (plainchant?)–the chants are amelodic. There’s no time signature, key signature, rhythm, counting, poetry (words which must be read), etc. The chants are learned by doing them week after week, year after year, and no one is worried about making a beautiful noise with the “instrument” (their voice). Often the chants are sung in a range that most people are comfortable with–no high Ds above C!

This is quite different than a Mass or a Protestant worship service where people have hymnals, and must open them and read not only the words, but often the music as well, and keep track of the accidentals and the time signature, and any irregular rhythms and rests (nothing more embarrassing than singing alone during a rest!).

And of course, with hymns, there is “personal preference.” Some people hate the old traditional hymns while others hate the “new” (50 year old!) hymns. Some people hate slow meditative hymns, others hate the lively fast hymns. Some people hate the organ, or the piano, or the guitar, or the orchestra, or the band, or singing a cappella! Many people are uncomfortable being part of a “choir” (the congregation!), especially as they have no practice time and have to open that hymnal and sing that hymn on the first try, and they don’t get a “do-over!” Finally, some people just hate to sing–it hurts their throat or their head or makes them out of breath or cough, and they don’t feel comfortable, and they’re embarrassed that others might hear their voice.

You can probably tell that I love singing hymns and playing for the singing of hymns, and I think that there are many many blessings that we receive from working together to present glorious hymns of praise and love to our Lord! But I think I’m a weirdo these days, as many people would rather clean a bathroom than sing in public.
 
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But isn’t the ideal always to sing the actual texts of the Mass (“sing the Mass”), as opposed to “other songs” (“Sing AT Mass”)?
 
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That’s more of an exception compared to the rest of his repotoire.
 
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