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RomanCrusader
Guest
If they are celibate than that is perfectly fine. However if Adam is going to Church and then going home and shacking up with Steve, then we have a serious issue.
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daeve
Guest
By the same token, if Adam is going to church and shacking up with Eve, we still have a serious issue.
Celibacy requires abstaining from sex outside of marriage, whoever might be participating in that sex. As a divorced Catholic, I have the same enjoinder as the homosexual Catholic…no marriage = no sex.
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RomanCrusader
Guest
True, but homosexual fornication is even more sinful.
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Teen4Christ
Guest
Because he’s sinning? we all are
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iamrefreshed
Guest
Because he does not intend to stop sinning.
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RomanCrusader
Guest
He is living the lifestyle of an active sodomite who is by default part of a massive universal anti-Catholic movement.
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Teen4Christ
Guest
Do any of us truly stop sinning?
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iamrefreshed
Guest
You need to understand the difference between intent and action.
Yes, we all sin. But to go to confession with no intent of stopping what you confess is wrong.
If someone is doing that and justifying their actions by saying we all sin then they are just making excuses for themselves to continue in their sin. It’s doesn’t fool God.
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Bennie_P
Guest
No, but we are to work toward that goal.
What shall we say, then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid! For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein?
Know you not that all we who are baptized in Christ Jesus are baptized in his death?
For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. Roman 6:1-4
Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:48
and the starting point toward that goal is with Jesus and following His teachings.
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LittleDeb
Guest
I think though that we still disagree on the point of the orientation being a sin. It can’t be a sin with what I was expressing. Fitswimmer’s question had to do with identifying sexual orientation. When I spoke of finding people attractive it was finding them NOT sexually attractive, merely attractive in general. There is a difference. I can identify certain people as attractive in general, without ever having been sexually attracted to members of my own sex. People with SSA also find some people just plain attractive without a sexual attraction. That was not my point.
Same sex attraction is about finding some people of the same sex sexually attractive. SSA is homosexuality. The sexual attraction is not a sin since it is not a choice. The action is a sin because it is a choice.
For something to be a sin it has to be chosen. Actions are chosen, orientation is not.
I hope that helps clear things up.
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Wampa
Guest
Hey rlg94086, the spokesman for the Archdiocese of St. Paul/Minneapolis seems to get the distinction, as well
From the thread “Father, lesbian daughter prohibited from speaking at Catholic church”:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=193105
"Dennis McGrath, spokester [sic] for the Archdiocese of St. Paul/Minneapolis, said that because of Curoe’s active lesbian lifestyle and the related content in the book, “the parish was asked not to hold the event.” McGrath said, “We welcome gay and lesbian members into the church, but they have the same rules of the road as heterosexuals.” Those rules dictate that there will be no sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage, he said."
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goofyjim
Guest
Wrong. Both are equally sinful.
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Exalt
Guest
Actually, wouldn’t unnatural sex always be more sinful than natural sex, if you follow through with the theo-logic?
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rlg94086
Guest
Hey rlg94086, the spokesman for the Archdiocese of St. Paul/Minneapolis seems to get the distinction, as well
From the thread “Father, lesbian daughter prohibited from speaking at Catholic church”:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=193105
"Dennis McGrath, spokester [sic] for the Archdiocese of St. Paul/Minneapolis, said that because of Curoe’s active lesbian lifestyle and the related content in the book, “the parish was asked not to hold the event.” McGrath said, “We welcome gay and lesbian members into the church, but they have the same rules of the road as heterosexuals.” Those rules dictate that there will be no sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage, he said."
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agangbern
Guest
Maybe it would help a bit if you tell us just what is meant by “sexual orientation”. What is the difference between saying, “What is the sex of a person” and " What is the sexual orientation of a person".?
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Elric
Guest
They both get you to the same place dont they?
I dont think that there is a priority line to get into hell.
But there might be a “get a number and wait for it to come up to be served” system, just to start the torment early
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rlg94086
Guest
The sex of a person is purely biological. With some exceptions, a person is clearly female or male. The exceptions are those with mixed up chromosomes and ambiguous or partial genitalia.
The sexual orientation has to do with the attraction to others. The categories are generally considered heterosexual (attracted to opposite sex), homosexual (attracted to the same sex) and bisexual (attracted to both). As a couple of people have mentioned, it are not necessarily hard/fast categories. It may be a spectrum, whereby from an attraction standpoint a bisexual person would be in the middle with varying strengths of attraction on both ends. However, I wouldn’t consider it a bell curve, because the vast majority of people are heterosexual.
We don’t know the cause of homosexual tendencies. The cause is irrellevant to the teaching of the Church. Sin occurs when the tendencies are acted upon.
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daeve
Guest
Once you hit mortal sin, what’s the difference. Hell is hell.
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Exalt
Guest
Thank you for bring the bigger issue into light. Gay people are going to hell, unless they are celibate, right?
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LittleDeb
Guest
Well, your question is worded a little backwards in light of Church teaching. Unrepented mortal sin bars all of us from heaven regardless of sexual orientation. The Church has only ever definitively declared who is, in fact, in heaven. She doesn’t speculate on who, personally, may be in hell.
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