“Late Pope Could Be Saint Soon.” How? WHY?

[tee_eff_em]

Canonizations are indeed infallible, but I don’t believe that this putative crisis of conscience will ever materialize.

Omitting all other considerations, I can point out the following: Pope Benedict XVI would like the ending of the Lefebvrist schism to be one of the contributions of his papacy. This is indeed a wonderful objective for which we should all pray. The Holy Father knows that beatifying his predecessor would make ending this schism even more arduous and even more unlikely.

The Lefebvrist schismatics and other schismatic “traditionalists” would be traumatized by this beatification and would be further alienated from communion with the successor of Peter. (Many Catholics who have not gone into schism would also be troubled.)

Even if you don’t realize that the beatification of Pope John Paul II is impossible, I ask you: why should Pope Benedict do something which is unnecessary for the defense of the Faith, and which will needlessly alienate people from the one true Church?

Keep and spread the Faith.

…So, when the time comes – Many years from now, I pray – That Pope Benedict is succeeded on the Throne of Peter, neither will *he *be capable of being canonized, because in addition to the continuation of the scandals that occurred under John Paul II of blessed memory, he will have committed the scandal of witholding canonization for the *unjust *reason you propose above…!?

:ehh:

tee
Who is thankful to not be living under “Pope Steve”

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The church disagrees with you on that point because they have ruled that the message is WORTHY OF BELIEF and DOES NOT CONTAIN ANYTHING CONTRARY TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH.

Even if a bishop gave his imprimatur for the publication of the writings of Mutter Vogel, this does not mean that those writings necessarily represent an authentic private revelation. In such a case, an individual bishop may act irresponsibly. Please recall that Pope St. Pius X said in the encyclical Pascendi that the imprimatur may sometimes be granted when it should not be (section 51).

In any case, Sir Knight should document his statement.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Canonizations are indeed infallible, but I don’t believe that this crisis of conscience will ever materialize.

Omitting all other considerations, I can point out the following: Pope Benedict XVI would like the ending of the Lefebvrist schism to be one of the contributions of his papacy. This is indeed a wonderful objective for which we should all pray. The Holy Father knows that beatifying his predecessor would make ending this schism even more arduous and even more unlikely.

The Lefebvrist schismatics and other schismatic “traditionalists” would be traumatized by this beatification and would be further alienated from communion with the successor of Peter. (Many Catholics who have not gone into schism would also be troubled.)

Even if you don’t realize that the beatification of Pope John Paul II is impossible, I ask you: why should Pope Benedict do something which is unnecessary for the defense of the Faith, and which will needlessly alienate people from the one true Church?

Keep and spread the Faith.

I believe your crisis in conscience is just around the corner! And let’s be clear about something: you have NO authority to state that the beatification of the Servant of God is impossible.

 

[pnewton]

I believe your crisis in conscience is just around the corner! And let’s be clear about something: you have NO authority to state that the beatification of the Servant of God is impossible.

I think we ought to come an reopen this thread if it happens. I am not going to say “when” because I think prejudging the situation before the data is in is the height of arrogance.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I think we ought to come an reopen this thread if it happens. I am not going to say “when” because I think prejudging the situation before the data is in is the height of arrogance.

I’m hope I’m not prejudging (though I would certainly admit a deep love and reverence for the old Holy Father). In teaching my 4th graders about probability, however, we use the words like “certain” or “likely” or “less likely” or “impossible.” It’s my opinion (subjective, certainly, simply my own prudential judgement) that the Servant of God John Paul the Great’s chances lie between “certain” and “likely” and that they lie closer to “certain” than they do to “likely.” But I freely admit, I don’t know. The current pope has asked that we pray for the canonization of his predecessor. He may have used a word like “speedy,” but I don’t remember precisely.

 

[pnewton]

I’m hope I’m not prejudging (though I would certainly admit a deep love and reverence for the old Holy Father).

No and I apologize that I put this linked to your quote. You were clear that these were your opinions and did not pretend to have any special superior knowledge of the outcome of this investigation. Again, I apologize for putting this on your quote.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

No and I apologize that I put this linked to your quote. You were clear that these were your opinions and did not pretend to have any special superior knowledge of the outcome of this investigation. Again, I apologize for putting this on your quote.

No worries, PNewton.

 

[prodigal-sun]

I’m sure that our current Holy Father did not mean that there are no degrees of sin, and thus no degrees of scandal. I’m sure that Pope Benedict XVI had no intention of repealing the distinction that Pope John Paul II’s catechism draws between mortal sin and venial sin (section 1854).

I wish always to submit to the knowledge and authority of the Catholic Church. I do not, however, believe that the Church can, or will, beatify Pope John Paul II.

Again, let’s pray for the soul of John Paul II, and let’s be grateful for, and study, his catechism, which was the greatest contribution of his troubled pontificate.

Keep and spread the Faith.

What on earth does degrees of sin have to do with anything. We are taking about a mortal man/woman living a life as most humans do, with the stain of sin upon their souls. The Holy Father did not mention degree of sin because it is irrellevant. Do you think St. Agustine never commited a mortal sin and scandal in his earlier years? Of couse he did and so have all of us. But still there will saints and the church will even recognize some of them!

You never answered the hypothetical question… why not? Not that I blame you since it is a hypothetical.

Peace & God Bless!

 

[Eschato]

I’m only going to say one thing on this thread, and I will not be back. I’m 23 years old, I lived in a state of mortal sin for as long as I could remember. Good Saturday, of last year, I joined the Catholic Church. Now, I go to mass every day. The bonds of my mortal sin have all been broken, and none of it would have been possible without this man that you are judging. I’m actually quite upset with that I have read on here. Do you think that Woywitka is in hell or purgatory right now. Maybe he is petitioning God to not let you past St. Peter, on the basis that you lied to your parents when you were twelve.

Who are you all to say whether someone makes it to heaven anyway? Have you posed that question to yourself yet?

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

I implore all those who support the beatification of Pope John Paul II to read an article entitled “Will Pope John Paul II Be Styled ‘The Great’?” It was written by Father Brian W. Harrison, and it appeared in the October 2003 issue of This Rock:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0310fea2.asp

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

I’m only going to say one thing on this thread, and I will not be back. I’m 23 years old, I lived in a state of mortal sin for as long as I could remember. Good Saturday, of last year, I joined the Catholic Church. Now, I go to Mass every day. The bonds of my mortal sin have all been broken, and none of it would have been possible without this man that you are judging. I’m actually quite upset with what I have read on here. Do you think that Wojtila is in hell or purgatory right now? Maybe he is petitioning God to not let you past St. Peter, on the basis that you lied to your parents when you were twelve.

Who are you all to say whether someone makes it to heaven anyway? Have you posed that question to yourself yet?

Friend, congratulations on finding your way to the Catholic Church! I wish you all the best as you start your life as a new Catholic. I’m delighted that the positive aspects of Pope John Paul II’s papacy helped lead you to the one true Church.

There’s a big difference between being in heaven and being a canonized saint. Someone worthy of canonization is not merely in heaven; he or she is someone who practiced heroic virtue while living in this world. It’s not easy, even for a Pope, to practice heroic virtue.

Even though John Paul II helped you to board the Ark, it was ultimately God, not any human person, who led you to safety. Jesus says this in Jn 6:44:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him . . .]."

Again, for all the reasons that I’ve listed on this thread, the way to honor and thank Pope John Paul II is not to ask for his canonization, but to study his catechism, which is the greatest contribution of his pontificate.

Again, congratulations!

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I implore all those who support the beatification of Pope John Paul II to read an article entitled “Will Pope John Paul II Be Styled ‘The Great’?” It was written by Father Brian W. Harrison, and it appeared in the October 2003 issue of This Rock:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0310fea2.asp

Keep and spread the Faith.

I’ve seen that article and I have thought (and still think) that he’s mistaken. No pontificate is without, to a greater and lesser degree, problems and weaknesses. In the balance scale, however, the Servant of God John Paul the Great may well have (I think more than amply DID) exhibit heroic virtue and sanctity. I believe the weight will fall on that side and he will be canonized.

As for “the Great,” those who call him that can find themselves in the company of the likes of Fr. Neuhaus, George Weigel, and no less illustrious name than that of Benedict XVI.

And to Eschato: pray, as has been asked of us by the Vicar of Christ on earth, for the canonization of the Servant of God, John Paul the Great.

 

[pnewton]

As for “the Great,” those who call him that can find themselves in the company of the likes of Fr. Neuhaus, George Weigel, and no less illustrious name than that of Benedict XVI.
.

I noticed the article was written before the death of John Paul II. I wonder what the author thought when in Pope Benedict’s first address from the balcony he addressed the late pontiff as John Paul the Great.

 

[Fergal]

Do you realize that Pope John Paul II went to confession up to 7 times a day?

Our late beloved Holy Father actually went to confession once a week. If you read Archbishop Dwitiz’s book you will see that.

 

[AmyS]

Our late beloved Holy Father actually went to confession once a week. If you read Archbishop Dwitiz’s book you will see that.

Yep, I have been corrected more than once… I heard once a day, three times a week, and now once a week. How many times does my mistake have to be pointed out to me! :banghead:

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

I implore all those who support the beatification of Pope John Paul II to read an article entitled “Will Pope John Paul II Be Styled ‘The Great’?” It was written by Father Brian W. Harrison, and it appeared in the October 2003 issue of This Rock:

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0310fea2.asp

Keep and spread the Faith.

WHY do you implore us? Are you so desparate to be proven right? What does it matter what we think? Do you think if we believe JPll is a Saint we will commit the same(supposed) errors that he did? Isn’t it more likely we will try and model our lives after the GREAT GOOD that he did? Why are you so desparate to prove this point? I myself would never dream of posting a thread such as this, so disrespectful IMHO.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

In a matter of which he has personal knowledge, Father Brian W. Harrison relates in the above-cited article that Pope John Paul II named Archbishop Edward B. Clancy of Sydney, Australia, to the College of Cardinals despite the fact that the archbishop had refused to take action in the case of a seminary professor who had denied the truth of the Resurrection of Christ.

This nomination to the College of Cardinals is in keeping with other episcopal appointments that the late Holy Father made, but is it the kind of appointment that a saint would have made? Would Pope St. Pius X have given the red hat to an archbishop who had failed to defend the Faith in this manner?

To which position do we, as Catholics, owe allegiance? To the claim that John Paul II is worthy of being declared a canonized saint? Or to the truth that Christ Our Lord rose from the dead?

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

To which position do we, as Catholics, owe allegiance? To the claim that John Paul II is worthy of being declared a canonized saint? Or to the truth that Christ Our Lord rose from the dead?

Why on earth are you presenting the above as ‘either-or’ when they are not mutually exclusive?

 

[Carrie_Andrews]

Also JPll was human, not God. You keep trying to say that because everything was not made perfect while he was pope, he can not be made a Saint. No one is God, but God, the Holy Trinity. God expects us to use our talents to become perfect as He is perfect. It’s our goal, and how we go about attaining it while we are on earth is the proving ground that tells where, and in what manner, we will spend eternity. JPll, was a Extremely admirable person. As a person, I believe he used his talents and faced his human challenges in a very Godly, Holy manner. This is what we are all called to do, none of us need judge one another, that’s Gods job, kindly leave him to it.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

The catechism that Pope John Paul II promulgated teaches that a saint is someone who “practiced heroic virtue” (section 828).

A Pope who gives a cardinal’s red hat to an Archbishop Edward B. Clancy, an archbishop who refused to take action after one of his seminary professors had denied the Resurrection of Christ, is ***not ***practicing heroic virtue–unless heroic virtue has been strangely redefined.

For the Catholic Church, heroic virtue in a Pope requires that he defend the Faith in an exceptionally exemplary manner. This includes defending the truth that Christ rose from the dead.

John Paul II’s catechism also teaches that there is no improper or rash judgment in acknowledging someone else’s “moral fault” or in correcting someone “with love” when there is a serious reason to do so. Defending the Faith is a serious reason. Please see sections 2477-2478 of the new catechism.

The object of a Catholic’s primary and ultimate allegiance is Jesus Christ, not the Holy Father. The Pope is merely the earthly representative and servant of Christ.

Keep and spread the Faith.