“Late Pope Could Be Saint Soon.” How? WHY?

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He also inspired catholics to start evangelizing. Relevant radio was founded because of his call for a new evangelization. That’s just of one of the many apostolates founded because of the late pope.
 
LilyM said:
Speaking out against Communism at a time when to do so was extremely dangerous (as the Bulgarian communist-sponsored assassination attempt shows) is also, I think, heroic.
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I can’t believe I forgot to mention this. He was a key player in bringing down communism.

Kendy
 
LilyM said:
All the Popes before JP2 had sound theology and philosophy, of course, not quite as deep as his was though, even before he became Pope. Some of them were seriously lacking on the personal holiness level as well, which is probably where he was best.

As for heroic - visiting, praying with and forgiving the man who attempted to assassinate him? I think that’s heroic, it’s certainly not something everyone would be capable of.

Speaking out against Communism at a time when to do so was extremely dangerous (as the Bulgarian communist-sponsored assassination attempt shows) is also, I think, heroic.

Not saying that he wasn’t without some flaws, but if God wants him to be made a saint he will be.
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Speaking out against communism was certainly heroic, but besides that, I think his treatment of the liturgy was terrible and he turned a blind eye to a lot of evil in the Church. But my argument is not even that he was a bad pope, but that he shouldn’t be canonized a saint, in my opinion.
 
Incense_Baby said:
Speaking out against communism was certainly heroic, but besides that, I think his treatment of the liturgy was terrible and he turned a blind eye to a lot of evil in the Church. But my argument is not even that he was a bad pope, but that he shouldn’t be canonized a saint, in my opinion.
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Let me guess, you are of the Jesus came down and founded a mass crowd. :rolleyes:

Well, guess what. It is not your decision to make. 😉
 
The presumptive canonization of John Paul II would serve to recognize the several contributions this man made to the Church and the world.

John Paul II single-handedly transformed the papacy into a powerful engine for social change. Through his use of technology, personal charisma and mastery of modern media he was able to:
  • Transform the weekly papal talks into a bully pulpit from which he could expound on his Theology of the Body, a revolutionary new way of approaching sexuality;
  • Restore the Sistine Chapel;
  • Help bring an end to the communist nightmare of the Soviet Union;
  • Begin serious talks to bring an end to the Great Schism between the East and the West;
  • Personally bring his message to people around the world;
  • Reform and update the Code of Canon Law and
  • Produce the first Catechism for the Church since the Reformation.
    In John Paul II, we are talking of a man who took every gift given him by God and who used them to the fullest in order to spread the Word of God. How entirely fitting that he should be canonized.
 
Kendy said:
He also inspired catholics to start evangelizing. Relevant radio was founded because of his call for a new evangelization. That’s just of one of the many apostolates founded because of the late pope.
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I would argue the Church was in a deep slumber while he was pope. And that’s not a highly opinionated point. You can look at vocations etc. during his time as pope and they aren’t good. But I don’t even want to argue this point. The bigger question is why Catholics who happen to disagree with the saintliness of someone not yet canonized are treated like apostates. That’s all. Is there no room for disagreement? Is he already canonized?
 
Pope John Paul II should not, and cannot, be canonized.

There is a vast difference between reaching heaven and practicing the heroic virtue necessary for canonization, as John Paul II’s own catechism teaches (section 828).

Catholics who understand why John Paul II cannot be canonized have every right to make their opinion known to the rest of the faithful. On this point, please see another section of John Paul II’s catechism: 907.

The way to honor John Paul II is not to canonize him, but to study his catechism, which is his greatest contribution to the Church.

Please see this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130163

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
Incense_Baby said:
I would argue the Church was in a deep slumber while he was pope. And that’s not a highly opinionated point. You can look at vocations etc. during his time as pope and they aren’t good. But I don’t even want to argue this point. The bigger question is why Catholics who happen to disagree with the saintliness of someone not yet canonized are treated like apostates. That’s all. Is there no room for disagreement? Is he already canonized?
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Because there’s really no point in the discussion, and it’s upseting to hear needless criticism of someone who did so much for the faith. Certainly, more than the people doing the criticizing. What gain is there in doing this? What souls will be saved by these criticism?

BTW, the young people he inspired are now entering religious life.

Kendy
 
Incense_Baby said:
I guess that’s what it comes down to-- he inspired people. He didn’t inspire me (I must know too much).

:Please tell us what that is.

As for boldly proclaiming the faith, I would hope any pope would do that. I don’t see that act as extremely heroic. And theology of the body shouldn’t be cited as a reason for saintliness. The Holy Spirit was sent to guarantee all popes give sound theology.
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Other_Eric said:
The presumptive canonization of John Paul II would serve to recognize the several contributions this man made to the Church and the world.

John Paul II single-handedly transformed the papacy into a powerful engine for social change. Through his use of technology, personal charisma and mastery of modern media he was able to:
  • Transform the weekly papal talks into a bully pulpit from which he could expound on his Theology of the Body, a revolutionary new way of approaching sexuality;
  • Restore the Sistine Chapel;
  • Help bring an end to the communist nightmare of the Soviet Union;
  • Begin serious talks to bring an end to the Great Schism between the East and the West;
  • Personally bring his message to people around the world;
  • Reform and update the Code of Canon Law and
  • Produce the first Catechism for the Church since the Reformation.
    In John Paul II, we are talking of a man who took every gift given him by God and who used them to the fullest in order to spread the Word of God. How entirely fitting that he should be canonized.
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Most of what you list is a good place to start, I think. But regarding the Catechism, the only reason it was updated was because central tenants of the faith were called into question while he was pope.
 
I would argue that people who assert that stuff have no one else to offer who even comes close to the level of holiness and pastoral wisdom that John Paul the great shared with the church.

His encyclicals were pastoral and instructive and called all the church to orthodoxy.

Luckily, he may well be canonized without the interference of those whose agendas he did not suit.

Thanks Be To God For That.
 
Church_Militant said:
I would argue that people who assert that stuff have no one else to offer who even comes close to the level of holiness and pastoral wisdom that John Paul the great shared with the church.

His encyclicals were pastoral and instructive and called all the church to orthodoxy.

Luckily, he may well be canonized without the interference of those whose agendas he did not suit.

Thanks Be To God For That.
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My only agenda is concern the Church. Can we please focus?
 
Steve_O_Brien said:
Pope John Paul II should not, and cannot, be canonized… [blah, blah, etc.]…
The way to honor John Paul II is not to canonize him, but to study his catechism, which is his greatest contribution to the Church.

Keep and spread the Faith.
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And your have already given a display of your arrogance, Steve, in your thread of the same topic, where the arrogance kept gettting pointed out to you and you ignored it.

You have already expressed your same point here in your own thread, and its a very long thread, I might add, due to the people answering the question for you of why John Paul II should be canonized, and your ignoring them, and so they restated, and asked you why you ignored them, and you wrote back restating your original point, and ignored them again. It made for a very long thread that went nowhere.

So all your complaints about the inadequacies of John Paul II have been made. And you are largely disagreed with in your disagreement. There are many good reasons given, but you ignored them all. You have a one track mind on this.

Why don’t you tell us something you agree with in the Church? Something right and good and true and beautiful?

It would be really good if you could “keep and spread the faith”, and not just your dissatisfaction.
 
Steve_O_Brien said:
Pope John Paul II should not, and cannot, be canonized.

There is a vast difference between reaching heaven and practicing the heroic virtue necessary for canonization, as John Paul II’s own catechism teaches (section 828).

Catholics who understand why John Paul II cannot be canonized have every right to make their opinion known to the rest of the faithful. On this point, please see another section of John Paul II’s catechism: 907.

The way to honor John Paul II is not to canonize him, but to study his catechism, which is his greatest contribution to the Church.

Please see this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=130163
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Keep and spread the Faith.And those who take that opinion using his Catechism should back up and display obedience to the church.

I have yet to see any reason that John Paul the Great should not be considered for canonization.
 
Kendy said:
Because there’s really no point in the discussion, and it’s upseting to hear needless criticism of someone who did so much for the faith. Certainly, more than the people doing the criticizing. What gain is there in doing this? What souls will be saved by these criticism?

BTW, the young people he inspired are now entering religious life.

Kendy
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I’m upset when we turn a blind eye to mistakes our pope and clergy make. It’s wrong and I don’t believe it’s good for the Church.
 
Incense_Baby said:
My only agenda is concern the Church. Can we please focus?
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What is there to focus on? None od us have the authority to make this decision. Thus, the only thing that can come out of this discussion is needlessly judgement about the character of the former pope. This puts on in dangerous ground. First, we might start to imagine that we knew better than the man God elected pope, and that he does not meet our high standard of holiness. Very dangerous territory.

Kendy
 
Kendy said:
Because there’s really no point in the discussion, and it’s upseting to hear needless criticism of someone who did so much for the faith. Certainly, more than the people doing the criticizing. What gain is there in doing this? What souls will be saved by these criticisms?

BTW, the young people he inspired are now entering religious life.

Kendy
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Perhaps St. Peter and other Catholics were initially upset when St. Paul, exercising the right and duty of fraternal correction, “opposed him [St. Peter] to his face” (Gal 2:11). In any case, he the first Pope appears to have accepted the correction, which St. Paul administered because St. Peter “clearly was wrong.”

With great respect for the office of the Vicar of Christ, it should be admitted that John Paul II clearly was wrong to allow the scandals that he allowed without taking adequate measures to root them out of the Church.

To point this out is to help save souls by helping people to absorb the Church’s teaching on the evil of scandal–a teaching found in John Paul II’s own catechism (sections 2284-2287).

As I indicated on the other thread, Pope John Paul II confirmed his bishops in their failure to excommunciate pro-abortion politicians. But how can abortion be murder if one can support its legality while at the same time presenting oneself as a Catholic in good standing and receiving Holy Communion?

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
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