$15 Seattle Minimum Wage Not Working Out

[stinkcat_14]

Let me try it again.

Seattle has a minimum wage of $9.47 in 2016, and is on track to move to $15. And Seattle has people in 2016 making $15 for above entry level jobs. And $20 for jobs above that level.

So where are wages going to go, when Seattle hits $15/hour , for those who were making $15, and those who were making $20 an hour in 2016?

The raise on minimum is 50%+ so the previous $15/hour job is going to be $22.50 and the $20 is going to be $30?

I kind of doubt it.

There is no reason to think that other wages will go up because the minimum wage goes up. Anything above the minimum will be set by supply and demand in the market.

And as to your definition of inflation, I take it as the rate of increase in the price of goods and services. and if the $15 and $20 jobs do increase at something approaching the rate of increase to the minimum, it is going to push the cost of goods and services up.

Maybe you don’t like that definition, but rather than argue about definitions, tell me your projections on wage increases other than the minimum - which is bound to push others.

There is no reason to think that wages other than the minimum will change, unless something fundamental to supply and demand changes. Changing the wage rate of 700,000 people in the US economy will have a minor effect on the economy as a whole. Changing wages in one city of that whole economy will have even less effect.

 

[otjm]

There is no reason to think that other wages will go up because the minimum wage goes up. Anything above the minimum will be set by supply and demand in the market.

There is no reason to think that wages other than the minimum will change, unless something fundamental to supply and demand changes. Changing the wage rate of 700,000 people in the US economy will have a minor effect on the economy as a whole. Changing wages in one city of that whole economy will have even less effect.

You ignore the fact that approximately 35 million workers in the US are at or below 150% of the minimum wage, and the ripple effect which a raise in the minimum wage is generally recognized in academic literature. So while you may feel there is no reason to think there will be any change, others disagree with you (as well as history).

Have a great day.

 

[YADA]

There is no reason to think that other wages will go up because the minimum wage goes up. Anything above the minimum will be set by supply and demand in the market.

There is no reason to think that wages other than the minimum will change, unless something fundamental to supply and demand changes. Changing the wage rate of 700,000 people in the US economy will have a minor effect on the economy as a whole. Changing wages in one city of that whole economy will have even less effect.

Thirty years ago the largest employer in Klamath County was Weyerhauser - one of several lumber mills in the County. Every time Weyerhauser employees got a raise - the cost of milk, bread and gasoline went up the very next day.

Additionally Every Union and every other employer in the county knew that they were going to have to raise wages … even the City and County governments knew that their cost in wages would be going up …

Of course the Spotted Owl decimated the timber industry - in Oregon most mills have closed and the few that are still operating are barely hanging on - mostly due to the costs of lawsuits filed by environmental groups that delay logging [even of burned timber - delaying harvests beyond the ability to salvage] … In the early 1980s these lumber jobs paid a family wage … now they pay about the same per hour as they did in 1980 and some [perhaps even many] positions are e held by non English speaking immigrants using a borrowed social security number but perhaps thats for another another thread.

But the economics of what those labor negotiations did in the local economy is exactly what happens when the minimum wage is artificially raised … otjm is absolutely correct - as the $15 minimum becomes a reality - it will force wages above the minimum to increase and that will increase the costs of goods and services … which will impact those lower unskilled workers even more - especially if they are making more per hour but their hours are cut creating a deficit in their take home pay …

As for the comment about what they are doing with their free time - like getting a second job … get real - that hardly becomes a benefit … unless their second job is located close to the first AND the schedules are perfectly able to mesh … a scenario I highly doubt - these people are loosing time in commuting between jobs and missing hours for shifts that conflict or overlap - you cant be in two places at one time … hardly family friendly for all of you that act like every job in America must pay enough to support a single earner family of three [Mom, Dad and kid]

 

[stinkcat_14]

Thirty years ago the largest employer in Klamath County was Weyerhauser - one of several lumber mills in the County. Every time Weyerhauser employees got a raise - the cost of milk, bread and gasoline went up the very next day.

Please link us to your data.

Additionally Every Union and every other employer in the county knew that they were going to have to raise wages … even the City and County governments knew that their cost in wages would be going up …

Again, data please.

Of course the Spotted Owl decimated the timber industry - in Oregon most mills have closed and the few that are still operating are barely hanging on - mostly due to the costs of lawsuits filed by environmental groups that delay logging [even of burned timber - delaying harvests beyond the ability to salvage] … In the early 1980s these lumber jobs paid a family wage … now they pay about the same per hour as they did in 1980 and some [perhaps even many] positions are e held by non English speaking immigrants using a borrowed social security number but perhaps thats for another another thread.

But the economics of what those labor negotiations did in the local economy is exactly what happens when the minimum wage is artificially raised … otjm is absolutely correct - as the $15 minimum becomes a reality - it will force wages above the minimum to increase and that will increase the costs of goods and services … which will impact those lower unskilled workers even more - especially if they are making more per hour but their hours are cut creating a deficit in their take home pay …

Actually, there is no reason that an increase in the minimum wage will have any effect on wages above the minimum. The minimum wage has no effect on either supply or demand (in technical terms, the curves do not shift) so the policy itself has no effect on wages above the minimum.

As for the comment about what they are doing with their free time - like getting a second job … get real - that hardly becomes a benefit … unless their second job is located close to the first AND the schedules are perfectly able to mesh … a scenario I highly doubt - these people are loosing time in commuting between jobs and missing hours for shifts that conflict or overlap - you cant be in two places at one time … hardly family friendly for all of you that act like every job in America must pay enough to support a single earner family of three [Mom, Dad and kid]

I made no comment about what people did in their free time. In general I am against policies that artificially increase wages. I do find it interesting that nobody talks about the really damaging policies such as occupational licensing restrictions and everybody focuses on the minimum wage which has almost no effect on the economy.

 

[meltzerboy]

Please link us to your data.

Again, data please.

Actually, there is no reason that an increase in the minimum wage will have any effect on wages above the minimum. The minimum wage has no effect on either supply or demand (in technical terms, the curves do not shift) so the policy itself has no effect on wages above the minimum.

I made no comment about what people did in their free time. In general I am against policies that artificially increase wages. I do find it interesting that nobody talks about the really damaging policies such as occupational licensing restrictions and everybody focuses on the minimum wage which has almost no effect on the economy.

The latter has apparently become an economic talking point for both conservative and liberal politicians. Once something becomes a talking point, I think it begins to take on a life of its own.

 

[Trader]

I made no comment about what people did in their free time. In general I am against policies that artificially increase wages. I do find it interesting that nobody talks about the really damaging policies such as occupational licensing restrictions and everybody focuses on the minimum wage which has almost no effect on the economy.

I have seen you complain about the issue of licensing several times before, but never with a link to some of the studies that have been done. I have heard California is a leader in this job killing policy with such jobs growing from 10% to more than 30% in recent times. I agree with you, but would think you have access to some of the research. A quick search did find this:

businessnewsdaily.com/2492-occupations-requiring-licenses.html

 

[chero23]

Kansas and West Virginia are states, not cities, and while they both voted heavily for Trump, I don’t think that means they’re conservative. The last 4 governors of West Virginia have all been Democrats, and 2 of the last 3 Kansas governors have been Democrats. I’m not aware of any urban area that can meaningfully be called conservative. Even in deep red Texas, Houston, Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio all voted for Clinton by significant margins.

But look at cities in Texas that voted for Trump and have republican mayors or city councils. Some of these have low minimum wages. People can not have a descent life with that.

 

[YADA]

Please link us to your data.

Again, data please.

Actually, there is no reason that an increase in the minimum wage will have any effect on wages above the minimum. The minimum wage has no effect on either supply or demand (in technical terms, the curves do not shift) so the policy itself has no effect on wages above the minimum.

I made no comment about what people did in their free time. In general I am against policies that artificially increase wages. I do find it interesting that nobody talks about the really damaging policies such as occupational licensing restrictions and everybody focuses on the minimum wage which has almost no effect on the economy.

I lived it … data … we got a raise and the next day milk and bread went up - happened every time … when the Spotted Owl decimated the timber industry and we began loosing wages and benefits - the cost of living did not decrease with each pay cut either … are you old enough to have lived through the high inflation? I bet you have no idea of an entire industry being decimated in a short time … I lived the Timber decimation …

Automotive and Steel industries did too bit for different underlying reasons …