25 unarmed Whites and only 14 unarmed Blacks were fatally shot by police in 2019. Do the data suggest that police deserve an apology from those who vi

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Wouldn’t it be better if mental health professionals performed welfare checks?
–Would you like your 22-year-old daughter with a newly-minted BA in social work to enter (not just knock, but enter; she has to do a welfare check) a random stranger’s home? Every day, day in and day out?

What could possibly go wrong?

If this hypothetical daughter has any brains, she will demand…wait for it…a police escort!

That precise fact pattern is happening in parts of California.
 
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Cops do this? Every day, day in and day out?

Normally, they come on a one-time basis. That’s how a welfare check works.

BTW, the degree is called a BSW, not a BA, and people holding it do not qualify as mental health professionals. Even a forensic social workers employed by the police department would require a Masters.
 
But what you’re proposing is to send “mental health professionals” to do welfare checks in lieu of police – and that is something police routinely do.

OK, now someone else has to do ALL “welfare checks,” so you just made it someone’s job, thus they’d be going frequently

WHO CARES what the degree is? All you’re really doing is saying in essence, “nah nah na nah nah, you don’t know what degree these women have!”

Know what? I didn’t know. Know what else? I don’t care. Their degree is irrelevant. Me not knowing what degree(s) these folks have doesn’t make your idea smart. It’s still foolish - you’re sending unarmed people to enter random strangers’ homes.

And as I said: Gee,what could possibly go wrong with that?
 
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OK, now someone else has to do ALL “welfare checks,” so you just made it someone’s job, thus they’d be going frequently
A welfare check is generally and almost invariably a one-time event.
“nah nah na nah nah, you don’t know what degree these women have!”
Men are social workers and counselors, too.
WHO CARES what the degree is?
It’s important to be professionally qualified for this line of work, specifically at a graduate level. So yes, I care what degree they have. And it is relevant to mention that they wouldn’t be “newly minted 24-year-olds.”
It’s still foolish - you’re sending unarmed people to enter random strangers’ homes.

And as I said: Gee,what could possibly go wrong with that?
Because armed people apparently don’t know what they’re doing.



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/atat...e-fort-worth-texas_n_5da24aa5e4b02c9da04b6142
 
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Because armed people apparently don’t know what they’re doing.
–Those folks who allegedly “don’t know what they’re doing” are the same people you will call for help when you are in trouble - and they will answer you, and come and help you, including by putting their lives on the line, despite your looking down on them. We’ll see if you still think that after you call them for help sometime…
 
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“As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings showed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019.”

And you can’t honestly say that more black people are killed by police than are killed by gang violence. But no one’s out there trying to defund gangs or rioting in their neighborhoods.
 
With all due respect, I don’t think you know or understand what police study; what they’re trained to do and not due; what parameters and restrictions they operate under, or what they’re “qualified” or “unqualified” to do, or even what a welfare check entails.

They’ve earned the right not to be second-guessed and disrespected as unqualified by third parties with no knowledge of what they do.

I can only reiterate that sending unarmed “mental health professionals” (however you want to define them, whatever their particular degrees!) into strangers’ homes is a recipe for those folks to get hurt or worse - and they know they’re unable to capably do those things, hence why non-law enforcement folks tasked with these things are starting to ask for police escorts - which completely undercuts the reason for assigning these tasks to non-law enforcement, or to take these tasks away from police and hand them to others.

Quoting a few media reports of unusual circumstances doesn’t change this reality. For example, the autistic kid in the article you cite was having a violent outburst, and the heavily biased report quotes only…his mother (has a mother of a shooting victim ever said her kid was at fault?), the same woman who called the police on him!
 
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Check the numbers on police violence against young American Indians. It’s really disproportionate to such a small group. (I personally think we should stop making everything about race, it makes it much more difficult to tell if something really IS racist)
 
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They’ve earned the right not to be second-guessed and disrespected as unqualified by third parties with no knowledge of what they do.
I too have said police, by and large are hammers that see every problem as a nail. They are good at enforcing laws, but do not understand mentally ill people, except from an enforcement view point, which is why prisons and jails treat more mentally ill people than hospitals. The evidence is compelling. There are some that are real good, but there are also those that just want take care of a call quickly and be done. This is not disrespect. Most are not college educated and most are trained in law enforcement only.
 
With all due respect, I don’t think you know or understand what police study; what they’re trained to do and not due; what parameters and restrictions they operate under, or what they’re “qualified” or “unqualified” to do, or even what a welfare check entails.
All of this is coming from someone unaware that only Masters-level (not 24-year-old fresh grads), professionals can perform mental health interventions or forensic social work and confused a welfare check with a police escort.

There actually is quite a bit of material out there on the success of these programs, notwithstanding your knee-jerk objection to them. This Oregon town of 170,000 replaced some cops with medics and mental health workers. It's worked for over 30 years - CNN

You just have to be open to learning about them. Your knee-jerk objection to them indicates that this may not be the case, however, so for the time I’m going to mute this thread.
 
There is some truth in your post but this is inaccurate:
Most are not college educated
–These days virtually all police have a college degree…but even if you’re correct, it’s kind of haughty, no? Look, part of my issue with Blackforest is the attitude of, “the police are SO unqualified!” Everyone thinks cops are dumb and uneducated - until they need them! Saying, “they’re not even educated” is, as I said, awfully haughty.

Cops have to make split-second decisions with their lives on the line - particularly in an environment where, like in LA, people can just walk up to them and start shooting. Sometimes they make wrong decisions, but I’m sorry, I’ll give the cops a LOT more deference than to keep saying how unqualified they are.
 
You’re 100% correct, Black: I’m guilty of not knowing what degree a social worker has.

Had I just said “bachelor’s” instead of “BA” it’d have been unnoticed.

…And you’re 100% unknowledgeable about any aspect of police work or training, and since that’s really the central issue here, your efforts to steer this discussion away from your own ignorance is noteworthy.
 
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Everyone thinks cops are dumb and uneducated
It would be haughty that way. Level of intelligence and education are not the same. I looked it up. Only a third have a four year degree. Here, it is not even that much. The stat is skewed by the federal officials which require four year degrees. That said, half of police graduated high school, and some form of academy. I am not saying they are uneducated in enforcing the law, just that enforcing the law is the only thing many are educated in.

I know way too look at every encounter only from the position of making an arrest, or not.
 
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Well, most of us are educated in what we studied.

As I indicate, police face violent threats daily. Their jobs are very hard. Most jobs, where you have a bad day, maybe a sale falls thru. Police? When they have a bad day, they die. This mantra of how unqualified they are, and how everyone can do their jobs better (like, say, someone with not a BA but instead a Masters of Social Work!), is exposed as flawed considering how often we want the police around. That includes the social workers in California who have asked for police escorts to homes!

Heck, here’s one: An anti-police protest in Seattle last month asked the police to come, so the protesters would have protection if needed - I kid you not.
 
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News flash - several officers shot in Kentucky tonight.

Further nonsense about how incompetent the police are would be in horrible taste. Pray for the officers down.
 
Just last night two officers in Louisville were ambushed. Had those officers said, nope I am not going there, they would be home with their families
 
Level of intelligence and education are not the same.
This is very true, and is something that needs to get back to being common knowledge. I know some people with masters degrees that are as dumb as a sack of rocks on anything outside their specific field. On the other hand, I know men who never went to college who are smarter and more capable than most college graduates.
 
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