25 unarmed Whites and only 14 unarmed Blacks were fatally shot by police in 2019. Do the data suggest that police deserve an apology from those who vi

[Maxirad]

Here’s an article that brings up a sobering situation:

A look at the people killed by Vallejo police since 2010

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

No one here ever said racism justifies riots. But systemic racism does exist and is a real problem that needs to be addressed. At least that’s what our Catholic bishops believe:

If it does, then point to the law or policy which explicitly favors one race over another, irrespective of behaviors.

Systemic racism is more than racism that is written into law or explicit policy. Read what the Catholic bishops have to say about it.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Systemic racism is more than racism that is written into law or explicit policy. Read what the Catholic bishops have to say about it.

In other words, you don’t actually care about fixing racism, you only care about virtue signaling. Got it. That’s all you had to say.

Whenever someone starts a post with “in other words” it is 99% certain that what follows in no way reflects what the other person said. Case in point.

I don’t know if the US Catholic bishops mean anything to you, but they do to me. That’s not virtue signaling. That is a profession of faith.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

This is what is known as a deflection from the question of racism, as if having crime disqualifies an entire race from complaining about racism. It doesn’t.

More black women have abortions than any other race because the abortion industry was founded on racism.

So says your meme. But as with most meme’s, it is empty of fact. More black women have abortions because they choose to have abortions more often. No one is forcing them to. This is not communist China where forced abortions are a reality. As for why they choose abortions more often, that is open to speculation. There are many possibilities.

 

[Hodos]

Whenever someone starts a post with “in other words” it is 99% certain that what follows in no way reflects what the other person said. Case in point.

Except for the fact that I offered to give you a chance to name something specifically that needs to be addressed and you balked. I’m all for addressing racism and will do so where you can name something tangible to address. But screaming systemic racism and then refusing to address laws or policies that are actually racist in intent means you don’t actually care about addressing the issue. You only want to appear as if you care about addressing the issue.

I don’t know if the US Catholic bishops mean anything to you, but they do to me. That’s not virtue signaling. That is a profession of faith.

A bishop can virtue signal just as surely as a lay person can. What are they actually proposing to address the issue? Is there a specific law or policy within government or within the Church that needs to be fixed? Or are we just self-flagellating for some unnamed offense?

 

[Hodos]

“Here’s an issue we need to address in society!” Is there anything wrong with this? Bishops aren’t public officials. They can’t do anything about systemic racism.

Sure you can. If you are claiming we need to address racism, then point toward the racist actions or policies. If you are claiming systemic racism within the Church or that members of the Church are engaging in, you can surely give specifics as to what needs to be changed. Is there a canon law that is racist in intent? Is there a doctrine that does not conform to scripture that is racist? Is there a civil law or policy that the laity needs to be aware of?

 

[Hodos]

Thank you for demonstrating the racist basis of this ideology and BLM self-flagellation. You made my point for me. You overtly called white people evil just for being white people. Good job.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I offered to give you a chance to name something specifically that needs to be addressed and you balked.

No, you asked what racist law needed to be changed, and I explained that systemic racism can exist without their being an explicit law. If you want an example, discretionary sentencing. There is no law that restricts a judge’s use of discretionary sentencing. It is his discretion.

LeafByNiggle:

I don’t know if the US Catholic bishops mean anything to you, but they do to me. That’s not virtue signaling. That is a profession of faith.

A bishop can virtue signal just as surely as a lay person can. What are they actually proposing to address the issue?

Did you read the documents referred to? But if you think the bishops are just virtue signaling, I guess there would be no point to that.

 

[Hodos]

Unfortunately, on social justice threads there is no way to determine between satire and reality because the left is actively taking positions that can only be described as neurotic.

 

[Hodos]

There is no law that restricts a judge’s use of discretionary sentencing. It is his discretion.

In other words, what you are saying is that laws that allow for discretionary sentencing, which are actually on the books in some places for specific crimes, are racist. Or you are saying that specific judges are racist. Feel free to provide evidence against specific judges that show that they are racist or motivated by racism as opposed to other factors, or vice versa on specific laws. If it turns out they are, change the law or vote the judge off the bench. See how that works? When you actually go through the process you can actually fix things.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

There is no law that restricts a judge’s use of discretionary sentencing. It is his discretion.

In other words, what you are saying is that laws that allow for discretionary sentencing, which are actually on the books in some places for specific crimes, are racist.

This is yet another instance of when the phrase “in other words” isn’t.

Or you are saying that specific judges are racist. Feel free to provide evidence against specific judges

You said racism was impossible without a specific law that is racist. I cited this example of a possible instance of systemic racism that is not due to a racist law, which is enough to disprove your generalization. I do not need to produce any concrete examples because the mere possibility of such is what you were denying. Obviously you were wrong.

Again I will ask, did you read the documents I cited from the US Catholic Bishops? Or do you discount them out of hand as being irrelevant?

 

[Annie]

systemic racism can exist without their being an explicit law.

laws or policies that are actually racist in intent

I think you two have different definitions for the same term…

Leafby seems to be talking about racism so pervasive within the system that black people are unduly hurt by it.

Hodos seems to be talking about racist “laws or policies” which are a part of a system.

 

[pnewton]

I hope you forgive me, but I keep encountering these same points in every discourse and I’m simply tired of responding to them. It seems like no one understands our collective struggle,

I would say that math is a concept that is hard for folks to follow, so yes, I am sure the concept of collective struggle would be like rocket science.

“Here’s an issue we need to address in society!” Is there anything wrong with this? Bishops aren’t public officials. They can’t do anything about systemic racism.

Bishops can present a signal that we need to practice the virtue of tolerance and work to end racism, but somehow that is not represented as a bad thing? Why would anyone dislike any standard of virtue being esteemed, unless they are against that virtue. I am beginning to wonder if this whole campaign against virtue signaling might be the work of the one who hates virtue, the Evil One.

 

[pnewton]

I think you two have different definitions for the same term…

Yes, they do. Good eye. Flipping terms is one way to argue. Control the terms, then control the debate. But as Leaf pointed out, our bishops have used the broader definition in trying to explain to Catholics that we still have an issue of racism that must be addressed in our country. I think “Open Wide Our Hearts” has already been linked.

 

[phil3]

“Here’s an issue we need to address in society!” Is there anything wrong with this? Bishops aren’t public officials. They can’t do anything about systemic racism.

Neither can any one else, it isnt true. Am I saying that the black community doesnt have problems that need to be solved. Nope, I am saying it not due to the systematic racism myth or the white privilege myth.

Black’s in America need to take a long hard look at their culture and make changes.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Black’s in America need to take a long hard look at their culture and make changes.

The culture that those in power imposed on them?

 

[phil3]

What ever the reason, it is what it is. I asked one poster what he want whites to do and his replay was something like, stop trying to find treasure on this earth and to be less white. If I had my way, I wish white culture was more like Asian culture. So what is wrong with black culture being more like the positive parts of Asian culture? I don’t care for the collective culture of Asian but there are many things about their culture we could learn from

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The attempt to blame blacks for their situation is like Hitler blaming the Jews for being dirty and carrying disease after confining them to the ghettos. The blacks as a group have never been treated the same as whites. They have never had the wealth that others have. Even now the average black family has 1/9 of the wealth of the average white family. Think of the the race for prosperity as a foot race where the black runners started out bound to the starting line at the start of the race, then after 200 years, the black runners are allowed to start, but must carry a backpack of 100 pounds of Jim Crow laws. Then after a few more decades the backpack is lightened somewhat, but spectators continue to toss debris in their path. Then at some magical time, those in power proclaim “all barriers have been removed”, and those black runners have just as much chance of winning the race as those who have been running unencumbered for hundreds of years. And now we hear the complaint in the previous post that blacks should take a long hard look at what has been keeping them back all these years.

 

[Anrakyr]

What ever the reason, it is what it is. I asked one poster what he want whites to do and his replay was something like, stop trying to find treasure on this earth and to be less white. If I had my way, I wish white culture was more like Asian culture. So what is wrong with black culture being more like the positive parts of Asian culture? I don’t care for the collective culture of Asian but there are many things about their culture we could learn from

Because you are reducing a people to a stereotype and not allowing for the individual to define themselves.

 

[phil3]

So there is no such thing as American culture? Texas culture, NY culture, California Culture. British culture French culture, Japanese culture? I could keep going but I think you get the point.