$34.06 an Hour

[didymus]

tinyurl.com/yr4pmy

$34.06 an Hour
That’s how much the average public school teachers makes. Is that “underpaid”?

BY JAY P. GREENE AND MARCUS A. WINTERS
*Friday, February 2, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST

*Who, on average, is better paid–public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker.

In the popular imagination, however, public school teachers are underpaid. “Salaries are too low. We all know that,” noted First Lady Laura Bush, expressing the consensus view. “We need to figure out a way to pay teachers more.” Indeed, our efforts to hire more teachers and raise their salaries account for the bulk of public school spending increases over the last four decades. During that time per-pupil spending, adjusted for inflation, has more than doubled; overall we now annually spend more than $500 billion on public education.

. . .

Evidence suggests that the way we pay teachers is more important than simply what they take home. Currently salaries are determined almost entirely by seniority–the number of years in the classroom–and the number of advanced degrees accumulated. Neither has much to do with student improvement. There is evidence that providing bonuses to teachers who improve the performance of their students does raise academic proficiency. With our colleagues at the University of Arkansas we found that a Little Rock program providing bonuses to teachers based on student gains on standardized tests substantially increased math proficiency. Researchers at the University of Florida recently found similar results in a nationwide evaluation.

 

[Benedictus]

I think there’s some funny business going on here with the numbers.

I imagine most teachers are paid a salary, not hourly, and since most teachers don’t work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, their equivalent hourly pay would work out to be artificially high.

According to this the average teacher made $46,597 in 2002-2003, which is far less impressive than $34.06 an hour. Someone who made $34.06 an hour and was paid for 52 weeks of full-time work a year would make about $70,845 a year.

 

[hoosiertoo]

But I LIKE long summer vacations…

 

[SeekerJen]

I think there’s some funny business going on here with the numbers.

I imagine most teachers are paid a salary, not hourly, and since most teachers don’t work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, their equivalent hourly pay would work out to be artificially high.

According to this the average teacher made $46,597 in 2002-2003, which is far less impressive than $34.06 an hour. Someone who made $34.06 an hour and was paid for 52 weeks of full-time work a year would make about $70,845 a year.

Excellent point. I know a lot of teachers and educational personnel (about half of DH’s family is in elementary education) and none of them make even close to $34/hour. In fact, I don’t think any of them make the average salary.

 

[hoosiertoo]

But I LIKE weekends off and only 180 days of actual instuction a year…including half days for “prep.”

 

[hoosiertoo]

And long breaks around the holidays…

 

[Benedictus]

But I LIKE long summer vacations…

Hey, I’m not trying to take that away. I’m just pointing out that someone figured out how to twist the numbers just right to make teacher pay look higher than it is.

 

[seek]

I often worry that if how well someone takes a test is the only
criteria, then teaching how to think, love and enjoy learning is left in the dust.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I often worry that if how well someone takes a test is the only
criteria, then teaching how to think, love and enjoy learning is left in the dust.

I invite you to go and look at the tests. Most states post released test questions from past years. The tests are pathetically easy – a sixth grader ought to be able to pass the typical high school test.

Teachers have complained, “We spend so much time teaching the test, we don’t have time to give the children a well-rounded education.”

My response is, “If you were really giving them a well-rounded education, you wouldn’t have to spend a single minute teaching them to pass** that** test.”

 

[Benedictus]

I invite you to go and look at the tests. Most states post released test questions from past years. The tests are pathetically easy – a sixth grader ought to be able to pass the typical high school test.

No kidding. I’ve seen the tests. They’re ridiculously easy.

 

[shirleytowers]

Architects don’t get paid by the hour, do they? My BIL is one and he gets paid one sum for the project. And did you ever think that maybe economists and architects were just grossly underpaid, too?

See this link for unbiased stats. census.gov/hhes/income/earnings/call2usboth.html

Teachers in my school district are paid $26 an hour for hourly contracts and yearly salaries starting at $34K. This is California, where the cost of living is high.

When I first started teaching, my kids qualified for free federal breakfast and lunches because our income was low enough to be a poverty issuse.

“All that time off” is what teachers use to get their required additional college courses they have to take every so many years, plan for the next year, collect materials, research, and work a second job. And rest. And boy do they need it.

Teachers do not have it so easy as some seem to think. I work from 7:30 to 4:00 at least every day, plus most weekends I am in there at least one day. This week I left after six twice. I leave when I am done, not when the bell rings. Last week I worked both Saturday and Sunday for a total of ten additional hours. I have to show up for extra duties in the evenings at times. I have 35 minutes for lunch, during which I barely sit down because I have so much work to do, I cannot afford to rest. I have no break in the afternoon and one 12 minute break in the morning but only three times a week. The other mornings I have no break and am lucky if I get to go to the restroom one time.

Prep time? I get precious little because of meetings after school. Two days a week we all have meetings, plus I have several other things I was asked to do which require meetings. In Japan, they get an hour of prep for each hour of instruction. I get maybe four hours a week after shool. No kidding.

I have holidays off, sure, but guess where I usually am at least half the time.

I go in two weeks before school opens, not required or paid but necessary, to get the room and materials ready and plan instruction. I spend a lot of my own money on supplies. I bring clothes and food for the kids, because they are poor, cold, and hungry.

If I divide my salary into 183 days of 8 hours each, I make $40 an hour. For an education for 32 children (not counting overhead and benefits) that seems pretty cheap, doesn’t it? How much do you pay a day care provider who watches seven or eight kids, per hour? LIke $7 an hour per kid. If you take my salary and figure it with hours actually worked, it is probably closer to $30 an hour. This is a bargain, if you ask me.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think there’s some funny business going on here with the numbers.

I imagine most teachers are paid a salary, not hourly, and since most teachers don’t work 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, their equivalent hourly pay would work out to be artificially high.

According to this the average teacher made $46,597 in 2002-2003, which is far less impressive than $34.06 an hour. Someone who made $34.06 an hour and was paid for 52 weeks of full-time work a year would make about $70,845 a year.

According to success-and-culture.net/articles/percapitaincome.shtml#data

The average per capita income in the United States in the same period was $37,500 – so teachers made about 24% above the national average.

In 2004, women with Master’s Degrees averaged $51,316 for full time work (source: factmonster.com/ipka/A0883617.html)), so a teacher would come within $5,000 a year of that figure – for part time work! ** If** she worked full time, a teacher would make about 140% of the median for a woman with a Master’s Degree.

 

[harinkj]

My response is, “If you were really giving them a well-rounded education, you wouldn’t have to spend a single minute teaching them to pass** that** test.”

A well rounded education requires one to learn how to think. Doing well on one of these standardized tests requires one to memorize. These are different mental acitivites.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[vern_humphrey]

A well rounded education requires one to learn how to think. Doing well on one of these standardized tests requires one to memorize. These are different mental acitivites.

• Kathie :bowdown:

I again invite you to look at the tests. A person who knows how to think could pass them cold. After all, you have to memorize the multiplication table before you can think your way to the answer to a simple word problem!

 

[harinkj]

… – for part time work! ** If** she worked full time, a teacher would make about 140% of the median for a woman with a Master’s Degree.

Hey. Why not only pay the police when they are actually arresting someone. Why not just pay airline pilots when the plane is in the air and they are the one flying it. How about only paying engineers when they are making calculations. No money for meetings, travel, et cetera.

I remember a group of engineers standing around drinking coffee and discussing this very same topic – how teachers had it so easy. The engineers were yapping on the taxpayers money for that 1/2 to 1 hour.

Why do we need teachers at all. Parents could teach their kids to read and then point them to the library. There is no need for mathematics, physics, history, english, or any other classes.

I never learned about Frechet spaces or string theory in any class. I did it by reading.

Schools must be for the ones who need to be spoon fed.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[harinkj]

I again invite you to look at the tests. A person who knows how to think could pass them cold. After all, you have to memorize the multiplication table before you can think your way to the answer to a simple word problem!

Actually you picked the wrong example. Now many schools have replaced learning the multiplication tables or arithmetic techniques with the use of calculators. Students memorized a series of buttons to punch. They have no idea what is behind the priciples. We are turning out glorified monkeys.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[vern_humphrey]

Hey. Why not only pay the police when they are actually arresting someone. Why not just pay airline pilots when the plane is in the air and they are the one flying it. How about only paying engineers when they are making calculations. No money for meetings, travel, et cetera.

Why not only pay teachers when they’re actually **teaching **something?

I remember a group of engineers standing around drinking coffee and discussing this very same topic – how teachers had it so easy. The engineers were yapping on the taxpayers money for that 1/2 to 1 hour.

But in the end, when you turn the key, the car those engineers designed starts. The airplane they designed flys. The roads they designed are properly banked and paved.

The airplane takes off and safely reaches its destination.

But Johnny can’t read.

Why do we need teachers at all. Parents could teach their kids to read and then point them to the library. There is no need for mathematics, physics, history, english, or any other classes.

Many teachers seem to feel that way.

I never learned about Frechet spaces or string theory in any class. I did it by reading.

Which tells us a lot about the poor quality of our schools.

Schools must be for the ones who need to be spoon fed.

• Kathie :bowdown:

There, I agree with you. But the kids who need to be spoon fed aren’t – the high school completion rate is only about 70% in this country. One of the great arguments against No Child Left Behind is that it focuses on the 30% who don’t make it – the kids who were (and still are) being thrown away by the system.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually you picked the wrong example. Now many schools have replaced learning the multiplication tables or arithmetic techniques with the use of calculators. Students memorized a series of buttons to punch. They have no idea what is behind the priciples. We are turning out glorified monkeys.

• Kathie :bowdown:

My point, exactly. I tutor a few local kids in math – they whisper in amazement when I solve problems in my head.

But it’s easier to teach them to push buttons than to memorize the multiplication table. Which is why Johnny can’t do math, either.

 

[harinkj]

My point, exactly. I tutor a few local kids in math – they whisper in amazement when I solve problems in my head.

But it’s easier to teach them to push buttons than to memorize the multiplication table. Which is why Johnny can’t do math, either.

I think we agree on the state of education. I just feel that the entire society has gone down the tubes too. Toyota recalled more cars than it sold last year in the US. NASA has never learned from the Apollo 1 fire, Challenger explosion, and the Columbia crash. All panels said that they needed to change their culture. They never have. No one questions things.

About 12 years ago I wanted to help kids overcome “math anxiety.” The only responses to my ads were kids or parents who wanted someone to help them cram before a test. Needless to say I gave up that idea.

Perhaps we need to divide our schools: trade schools and real college education. Move most things to the trade track: MBAs, MDs, JDs, EEs, computer science, et cetera. Keep the college for research fields. Some like medicine would overlap.

A recent news item I read said that oiver 70 % of college students said they had cheated in the last year. I think that sums it all up: The dollar is king.

• Kathie :bowdown:

 

[system]

But I LIKE weekends off and only 180 days of actual instuction a year…including half days for “prep.”

I remember comments like this when I was a teacher. Usually from people who would last approximately 36 in that honorable profession.

So you think the job is 180 days, early dissmal and Summers off?

The 180 days per year is required of the students. I’ve never met a teacher that worked 180 days, it’s always much higher.

Half-day for prep eh? It’s more like one 40 minute period for every four periods taught, but then there’s those parent calls to return and classes to cover for your fellow teacher who’s meeting with complaining parents, and then there’s your meeting for “Independent Educational Plans” (every kid is entitled to special treatment you know). Assume an extra 10 hours a week creating some of THOSE babies! (IEP)

Then there’s the basic facts of the job - imagine going to whatever job you have, and finding 25 (more like 35-40 now)
wired and crazy adolescents all dying for your attention in different ways. The ones who want to impress, the ones who want to disrupt, the suicidal one in the back row, the one with 2 mommies in the second row, the one caught drinking last week, the one they caught with a gun in another school and now he’s in your school, you get the idea. Now they will TRY to get away with whatever they can, and learn as little as possible but you get the upper hand and control the class and actually teach them and - what’s that? the BELL! and a new crop comes in with 1000 times more energy than you have and you start from square one again. This will go one for at least 8 periods. (I often explain this part to my friends who have never taught. They either-
a)ignore it because they don’t want the facts, or
b) they think about it, and this look of understanding covers their face. It’s a good moment.

Back to your day:
Then (if you don’t have bus duty) you’ll spend at least an hour returning phone calls, notes, and demands for “special treatment” from parents who cannot even ask their kid if he has done his homework.

Then you’ll go home and spend at least 3 hours per night grading the work these kids are doing, and documenting everything these kids say and do because you’ll need that in the parent-teacher conferences where everyone thinks they’re a lawyer and their kid walks on water. They want YOU to cut their kid some slack so he can become a successful professional somewhere making the big buck (for God’s sake! we don’t want him to end up as a teacher!)

So, you think you’ve got a weekend, do you? Nope - you have to go to the nearest accredited college and continue to take education course NOT FOR MORE MONEY - but just to continue to hold your state license.

When I did the job, it was just customary to write off all weekends for 9 months. If you weren’t IN a school activity, you were usually there to support it, cheer on the kids who mom or dad is too busy or too drunk to care…you know - the basics.

Anyway, these numbers you have sound a little off. They can’t be based on the 14 to 16 hour days I worked as a teacher.

So I would estimate well over 288 days of actual teacher work from first day to last day. Sat and sun were less hours, so let’s say 10 hours a day at $34.06 per hour …that salary should come to $98,092.80, I think.
WOW - you’d need a PhD and about 25 years to get to that salary in PA.

Yes we did get some time off in the Summer! Woo-hoo. But most teachers I know worked, took classes, and besides, all those days off in the Summer merely add up to the number of weekends you regular workers had while we were in school 9 to 10 months per year! .

I could go on and on, but let me put it this way, my first teaching job was in a Catholic private school - so I would have LOVED to have the I described job above! I think I got two prep periods per WEEK, unpaid bus duty, unpaid cafeteria duty, unpaid study hall duty, and when I need extra rehearsals, they were before school, after school, or on the weekends, all unpaid)
**
Anyway, I’m not a teacher anymore, I’m in the cushy world of 40 work weeks!** (well, I try to limit it to 40)