A Catholic explanation of John 6

[NotWorthy]

You do realize what an incredible spin this seems like Nothworthy. I understand you are used to this line of thinking.

So going literal, your guys view, Jesus meant;

I see some cracks opening in the veneer finish of yours, Brian! You’re getting close.

eating the blood and flesh of Christ gives you grace and if you get enough grace, ie your stored grace is greater than mortal sins, , gets you eternal life?

A mortal sin, sadly, eliminates all of your stored graces and prevents you from going to heaven. That’s why we need to repent and avoid mortal sins.

And when we fall, we need to go to confession.

 

[runandsew]

Jesus never said that the eucharist was His flesh. Your religion did.

You are starting to see the light, but not quite yet , yes our religion does say this, but our founder Jesus also said this.

At the last supper Jesus did the following: "And he took the cup, and gave thanks (eucharisteo), and said, Take this, and divide [it] among yourselves:For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.And he took bread, and gave thanks (eucharisteo), and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

eucharisteo means Eucharist.

The Catholic Church is the church that Jesus established, and from within her came the New Testament, which states in John 6:54
“Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day”

And from the very beginning of the Church it was understood that St. John was talking literal here and not symbolic, and also at the last supper in the other Gospels.
In fact St. John personally taught Ignatius of Antioch, who said “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” in the year 110 AD, just 20 years after his teacher St. John passed away.

 

[believers]

Now, it’s your turn to provide the proof.

You’re kidding right? You haven’t proven anything.

 

[dbacks5439]

Great, now let’s get back to the topic. Prove that the eucharist is Jesus. Thanks.

God sent His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
We must believe in Jesus in order to have eternal life. No question. Jesus says we must eat His flesh, drink His blood, or else there is no life within us. We not only need to believe in Jesus, but also what He says. You **must** eat **my** flesh, or else there is **no** life within you. As a Catholic, I am privileged to even be able to participate in His sacrifice. Nothing in the world can offer something so special, so sacred, so powerful than what the Eucharist offers me. It's never too late Believers, you can always come back home. My prayers are to you.

 

[NotWorthy]

But that does not prove that the eucharist is Jesus. How do I know that you’re not just calling the eucharist… Jesus?

The key words are found in the Last Supper.

During the Last Supper, the Lord said to his disciples, “Do this in memory of me.” In Greek, this statement reads, “Touto poieite eis tan eman anamnesin.” There are two aspects of this phrase that deserve consideration. For one, the phrase *touto poieite *can be translated as *do this *or as *offer this. *In the Old Testament, God commands the Israelites “you shall offer (poieseis) upon the altar two lambs” (Ex. 29:38). This use of *poiein *is translated as *offer this *or *sacrifice this *over seventy times in the Old Testament. So the same word that is used for the sacrifice under the Old Covenant is used for the sacrifice of the Mass in the New.

The second key aspect of this phrase is Our Lord’s use of the word *anamnesin. *If you were to ask someone to look in a Greek Translation of their Bible, every time this word (anamnesis) appears it is within a sacrificial context, such as in Numbers 10:10, “…you shall blow the trumpets over your holocausts and your peace offerings; this will serve as a reminder of you before your God. I, the LORD, am your God". It also can be translated as *memorial offering *or memorial sacrifice. While these nuances are lost in the English translation, Jewish ears would have understood the sacrificial meaning of Christ’s words.

But, you see, you can’t offer up a memorial sacrifice WITHOUT a sacrifice!!! Jesus makes us present at the foot of the cross at Calgary, just as the Jews are made present at the first Passover every time they celebrate the Passover.

 

[believers]

God sent His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

We must believe in Jesus in order to have eternal life. No question. Jesus says we must eat His flesh, drink His blood, or else there is no life within us. We not only need to believe in Jesus, but also what He says. You **must** eat **my** flesh, or else there is **no** life within you. As a Catholic, I am privileged to even be able to participate in His sacrifice. Nothing in the world can offer something so special, so sacred, so powerful than what the Eucharist offers me. It's never too late Believers, you can always come back home. My prayers are to you.

You guys have still not proven that the eucharist is Jesus. So far, I got because Jesus gave thanks. Therefore it’s the eucharist.

So the Catholic church says, let’s call this wafer the eucharist because it comes from eucharisto. Jesus gave thanks so He gave the eucharist. That proves the eucharist is Jesus. And you believe this?

 

[Mannyfit75]

But that does not prove that the eucharist is Jesus. How do I know that you’re not just calling the eucharist… Jesus?

The eucharist in the Mass that I go to, or to any Catholic Church is unleaven bread. The priest during the consecration recites the Lord’s word, “Take this all of you and eat it. This is my body which will be given up for you.” This is the eucharist.

He raises the Eucharist or Blessed Sacrament over his head. As he does this, the community of the faithful are kneeling.

The priest then takes the cup, and said, “Take this all of you and drink from it. This is my blood, the blood of the new covenant which will be given up for you.”

During the consecration, the bread becomes Jesus Christ, and the wine becomes his blood.

believers, I truly think you not trying to understand the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist, or the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.

You could at least try to be more charitable and patient like Brian.

 

[NotWorthy]

You’re kidding right? You haven’t proven anything.

OK, believers, We see Jesus repeating FOUR times that He is the bread of Life. Four times!!! That means in Jewish-speak that what He is saying is VERY important.

Now we go to any one of the last suppers and we see Jesus saying “THIS is my body”. The “THIS” is the bread. If you can’t see the connection, I’m very sorry for you.

Look closer at Paul in Corinthians. The whole discussion is around a Sacrficial Table.

Another New Testament passage that testifies to the sacrificial nature of the Mass is 1st Corinthians 10:14–21. Here Paul argues that participation in the Lord’s table means refusing to participate in the sacrifices of demons. Paul contrasts two groups: The first are those who participate in one altar (the table of demons), eating the sacrifice and drinking from the cup of demons. The second are those who partake of the table of the Lord (which, according to Malachi 1:7 is synonymous with an altar of sacrifice - By offering polluted food on my altar! Then you ask, “How have we polluted it?” By saying the table of the LORD may be slighted!) and drink from the cup of the Lord. Paul’s argument is based upon the parallelism between the demonic sacrifice and the Christian sacrifice. Look at his words in verse 16, “The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” When we participate in the blood of Christ, we are participating in His sacrifice. This is done during the Mass.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Oh, God. Help me and give me patience. believers is driving me :banghead: :banghead:

 

[believers]

OK, believers, We see Jesus repeating FOUR times that He is the bread of Life. Four times!!! That means in Jewish-speak that what He is saying is VERY important.

Now we go to any one of the last suppers and we see Jesus saying “THIS is my body”. The “THIS” is the bread. If you can’t see the connection, I’m very sorry for you.

Look closer at Paul in Corinthians. The whole discussion is around a Sacrficial Table.

Jesus promised eternal life to those that hear is Word and believe. Then He goes on to say to eat His flesh which is the same thing.

Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)

Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

REMEMBER, JESUS DEFINED MEAT HERE
Jhn 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jhn 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

[NotWorthy]

Oh, God. Help me and give me patience. believers is driving me :banghead: :banghead:

Manny, if someone is trying to convince you of something that goes against all of your grain, you’d probably act the same way.

Aren’t you in the service? What if I told you that our military really stinks. No matter how many reasons I gave you, you probably still wouldn’t accept it, now would you?

In the meantime:
a) I do so love our military, so don’t flame me, please! (I’m the son of two marines - I wish I was 1/2 the man my momma is!)
b) Keep praying for that patience, we all need it sometimes!

 

[runandsew]

You guys have still not proven that the eucharist is Jesus. So far, I got because Jesus gave thanks. Therefore it’s the eucharist.

So the Catholic church says, let’s call this wafer the eucharist because it comes from eucharisto. Jesus gave thanks so He gave the eucharist. That proves the eucharist is Jesus. And you believe this?

The real presense is in the writings of all the early church fathers, and it is in the writings of all the early church documents, all dating from the time of the Apostles. Yes I believe it, it is a belief that is as old as the church. I believe it because Jesus said so, the early fathers said that is what he meant, and the church has maintained this teaching for 2000 years. It is not something they invented some 400 years or 1200 years later, they believed it right from the start.
I have to admit that some of our teachings aren’t very clearly taught from the beginning, but this isn’t one of them, the real presense is very clearly taught right through the Church history.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Jesus promised eternal life to those that hear is Word and believe. Then He goes on to say to eat His flesh which is the same thing.

He did promise and he kept his promise. Though belief is not enough. We must persevere to the end, just as St. Paul said in his Epistles.

We must take into account into everything that Jesus has taught us. That include eating his flesh and drinking his blood.

This ancient Christian practice has been going on since the time of the Jesus Christ to the present day. How often do you see in Acts, that the the community is gather and the Last Supper is often describe as the “breaking of the bread?”

The Catholic today in the weekly Sunday Mass, and daily Mass the faithful received the Lord daily. Just as the Lord’s Prayer says, “Our Father, who art in heaven, hallow be thy name. Give us this day, Our daily bread.”

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus promised eternal life to those that hear is Word and believe. Then He goes on to say to eat His flesh which is the same thing.

Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)

Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

REMEMBER, JESUS DEFINED MEAT HERE
Jhn 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jhn 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

This smells of drawing the line, and then plotting the points. You are still ignoring the symbolic meaning of Trago when you present this. I know, I know, the posts have been flying fast. But Trago (gnaw and grind) as an idiom meant to hate and revile someone.

“He who eats (Trago) my flesh and drinks my blood will have eternal life…” If this is taken symbolically, it would mean, “He who hates and reviles me will have eternal life”.

BTW, Good night!!!

 

[believers]

He did promise and he kept his promise. Though belief is not enough. We must persevere to the end, just as St. Paul said in his Epistles.

We must take into account into everything that Jesus has taught us. That include eating his flesh and drinking his blood.

This ancient Christian practice has been going on since the time of the Jesus Christ to the present day. How often do you see in Acts, that the the community is gather and the Last Supper is often describe as the “breaking of the bread?”

The Catholic today in the weekly Sunday Mass, and daily Mass the faithful received the Lord daily. Just as the Lord’s Prayer says, “Our Father, who art in heaven, hallow be thy name. Give us this day, Our daily bread.”

Jesus said this. I didn’t. If you have a problem with these verses then you’d have to take it up with Him. If you can, I’d certainly like to see you refute the following verses.

Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)

Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

REMEMBER, JESUS DEFINED MEAT HERE
Jhn 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jhn 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

 

[NotWorthy]

Jesus said this. I didn’t. If you have a problem with these verses then you’d have to take it up with Him. If you can, I’d certainly like to see you refute the following verses.

Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)

BTW, is this sort of like that “Seven degrees to Kevin Bacon game”?

Once again, Good night, and thanks for the discussion!

 

[dbacks5439]

If what we eat nourishes us physically, then what can nourish us spiritually? What is the food for the soul? Whether you believe it or not, our souls are extremely delicate. If by even having an impure thought, our souls are injured, hurt. Can a single thought hurt the body? Hardly. There’s gotta be something that can heal our souls. Food heals and nurtures the body, the Eucharist heals and nurtures the soul.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Manny, if someone is trying to convince you of something that goes against all of your grain, you’d probably act the same way.

Aren’t you in the service? What if I told you that our military really stinks. No matter how many reasons I gave you, you probably still wouldn’t accept it, now would you?

In the meantime:
a) I do so love our military, so don’t flame me, please! (I’m the son of two marines - I wish I was 1/2 the man my momma is!)
b) Keep praying for that patience, we all need it sometimes!

believers, I’m sure you come here to learn, but many of your posts here are almost as annoying as the Pharisees and Sadducees. No offense.

It’s like show me in the Bible is like the common line that Protestants like to ask us.

Well, in John 6, we show you our verse. The Eucharist derives from the Εὐχαριστία eucharistia, “thanksgiving.” The word Eucharist is not in the Bible. Either is the word Trinity.

Does everything have to be in the Bible? No, not all the time. Everything that the Catholic Church practice especially in regard comes from Jesus Christ himself. Jesus gave us the sacraments, the Bible, the Church, and a chance to save us from our sins. We have to believe in Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium of the Church. These come from God himself.

The Eucharist or bread is Biblical. Jesus repeatedly said, 'I am the bread of life."

Do I believe what he said.** Yes**. Does he mean this to be symbolic? No. I understand it as the way Jesus say it is.

During Mass, we Catholics often say this before receiving the Lord. We say, “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, until you come in glory.” which is taken out from 1 Cor 11:26 “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

BTW, is this sort of like that “Seven degrees to Kevin Bacon game”?

Once again, Good night, and thanks for the discussion!

It does seem like it.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Jesus said this. I didn’t. If you have a problem with these verses then you’d have to take it up with Him. If you can, I’d certainly like to see you refute the following verses.

I have no problem with the Words of what Jesus said concerning that we must eat his flesh and drink his blood. I have read John Chapter 6 so many times. There isn’t any word to describe His words as mere symbolism.

I’ll point out to you 1 Cor 11:20-34

*When you meet together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died. But if we judged ourselves truly, we should not be judged. But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world. So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another – if any one is hungry, let him eat at home – lest you come together to be condemned. About the other things I will give directions when I come. *