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EmperorNapoleon
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Some Muslims take such commands more seriously than other Catholics. Some Catholics take such commands more seriously than other Catholics. So what?
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Luigi_Daniele
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This is what I was trying to say. Thanks for saying it much better than I did.
It shouldn’t be forgotten that in RC our greatest saint is a woman.
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EmperorNapoleon
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There are also female saints in Islam.It shouldn’t be forgotten that in RC our greatest saint is a woman.
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Luigi_Daniele
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Is one of them their greatest saint?There are also female saints in Islam.
I don’t mean this as a gotya moment, but is it just me, or does anyone else notice that Islam is admired by agnostics/atheists/liberals but not Christianity?
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LucyLight
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Do you believe that women have equal value to men in Islam?There are also female saints in Islam.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Absolutely! In fact, the first saint in Islam was a woman!
I think the Church would disagree with that assessment.
Quran 3:195 - “Their Lord responded to them: “I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female - you are equal to one another. Thus, those who immigrate, and get evicted from their homes, and are persecuted because of Me, and fight and get killed, I will surely remit their sins and admit them into gardens with flowing streams.” Such is the reward from GOD. GOD possesses the ultimate reward…”
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EmperorNapoleon
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Quran 3:195 - “Their Lord responded to them: “I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female - you are equal to one another. Thus, those who immigrate, and get evicted from their homes, and are persecuted because of Me, and fight and get killed, I will surely remit their sins and admit them into gardens with flowing streams.” Such is the reward from GOD. GOD possesses the ultimate reward…”
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LucyLight
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So do you believe that women have equal value to men in Islam?
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EmperorNapoleon
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According to the Quran; yes.
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Luigi_Daniele
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But in practice, no.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Again, that depends on the individual practitioner.But in practice, no.
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Luigi_Daniele
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As a whole, I’d say. Where in Christianity is it required/practiced for a woman to cover herself from head to toe, showing her eyes only?
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EmperorNapoleon
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I don’t understand the point of the question. Its not required in Islam or even by most predominately Muslim countries.
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LucyLight
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The Christian God does not give holy men virgins as sex slaves for their good deeds.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Neither does Allah (which the Church believes is the same God). There is no promise of virgin sex slaves in the Quran.
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LucyLight
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The Hadith says: The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."
hmmm…doesn’t say anything about 72 husbands. Do women who aren’t given as presents even make it into heaven? The ideal woman in Islam is a virgin. Do you think that 72 wives will be less than ideal. It is widely accepted in Islam that these women will be virgins.
Some more verses from the Religion of Peace.
Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please." Quran 2:223
Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them." Quran 4:34
A male shall inherit twice as much as a female." Quran 4:11
Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women." Quran 2:228
Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses…" Quran 2:282
If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those [of your wives] who have not yet menstruated." Quran 65:4 (Obviously refrencing child brides)
“[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves.” Quran 4:24
So as you can see women are the property of men in Islam. The religion of peace.
If you try and say that these passages come from a different time and are no longer relevant that argument doesn’t work because women in Islamic countries are treated horribly.You will know them by their fruits.
Comparing the way that women are treated in Catholicism compared to Islam is intellectually dishonest.
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EmperorNapoleon
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The Hadith is not the Quran anymore than Confessions is the Bible.
Enough of this nonsense. The Bible lays out the exact same role for women as the Quran does and not every Catholic or Christian for that matter has moved away from those concepts and towards feminism either. Stepping away from geocentrism; it may surprise you to learn that a lot of women choose to live a traditional Biblical, Talmudic, or Quranic life out of a sense of piousness.
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LucyLight
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Confessions?
Catholicism does not place men above women, Islam does. The bible does not compare to the Quran in its treatment of women.
To your last point,
Maybe, but lots of women enter into abusive relationships too…go figure. They might truly have bought into the lies and believe themselves to be inferior. Or what seems like a choice on their part may not truly be. I wouldn’t justify the mistreatment of any group of people based on religion, even if they choose to be apart of it.
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EmperorNapoleon
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Hint: St. Augustine.
Does it not? I don’t see any female Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals, or Popes. Why do you think that is?
Of course it does. If you want to continue down this road then I invite you to IM me and I’ll reply with plenty of references from the Bible.
As I said; the kind of geocentric feminism espoused in the United States doesn’t permeate every culture.
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Crescentinus
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It’s not even the case, at least with me.
The main problem is this:
Radical feminists tend to condemn violence against women and rightly so. But, when it comes to Muslims doing it, they are extremely silent about it. One could suggest that there are few feminists in the Islamic world, let alone the radical ones. But, the abuse can still be condemned by feminists (both radical and non-radical) from outside the Islamic world, cultural differences aside. So, why is it that the radical feminists are silent about this type of abuse? Do they favor a system (radical Islam) where they themselves would be silenced? This could be the case.
I’m not even trying to blame Islam but the radical feminists for being silent about this pressing issue. If they care about the welfare of women worldwide regardless of anything else, then why is it that they’re silent about this issue?
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