Abolish the Police

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It is not just time we re-examine police training. It is time we re-examine what it is we expect them to do and how we expect them to do it.

There is no effective way to attain unrealistic goals. The mere fact that even a few people think we’d all get along better without them shows how very unrealistic our citizenry can get.
 
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Wait, Adam, some of us have family in the guard. . .you know, who’ve been out serving meals to the needy for the last 3 months or so. . .
 
Easy.

We must all think the same way as the author.

If not, well, that’s why reeducation camps exist.
 
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If someone goes on another Pulse Night Club shooting are we supposed to call social workers?
 
ImJustPro said:
If someone goes on another Pulse Night Club shooting are we supposed to call social workers?
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I’d expect George Zimmerman to show up first.

If you think the police have a few people who don’t turn out to be great in the life-or-death decision-making department, just wait until the Stand-Your-Ground types show up.
 
With regard to the quotation from the NY Times article, I think we should first attempt to build such a utopian society and then we can talk about possibly abolishing the police and prisons. The writer of the article has the order reversed.
 
I seem to remember years ago if disagreeing with people on divisive topics
they would invariably say " I don’t agree with you but I would defend, with my life, your right to say it"
Those days are now ’ gone with the wind ’
 
PetraG said:
f you think the police have a few people who don’t turn out to be great in the life-or-death decision-making department, just wait until the Stand-Your-Ground types show up.
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Yep.
Florida.
See it like a native.
 
Consider this:

'A new study of 1,024 mammal species has determined which animals are the most vicious killers of their own kind. Killer whales perhaps? Pit bulls maybe? For the answer, just look in the mirror.

'Step back and view our species objectively from the outside, the way a zoologist would carefully observe any other animal, or see us the way every other creature perceives human beings. The brutal reality could not be more evident or more horrifying. We are the most relentless yet oblivious killers on Earth.

‘Our violence operates far outside the bounds of any other species. Human beings kill anything. Slaughter is a defining behavior of our species. We kill all other creatures, and we kill our own. Read today’s paper. Read yesterday’s, or read tomorrow’s. The enormous industry of print and broadcast journalism serves predominantly to document our killing. Violence exists in the animal world, of course, but on a far different scale. Carnivores kill for food; we kill our family members, our children, our parents, our spouses, our brothers and sisters, our cousins and in-laws. We kill strangers. We kill people who are different from us, in appearance, beliefs, race, and social status. We kill ourselves in suicide. We kill for advantage and for revenge, we kill for entertainment: the Roman Coliseum, drive-by shootings, bullfights, hunting and fishing, animal roadkill in an instantaneous reflex for sport. We kill friends, rivals, coworkers, and classmates. Children kill children, in school and on the playground. Grandparents, parents, fathers, mothers–all kill and all of them are the targets of killing…’ (R. Douglas Fields: ‘Why We Snap’)
 
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Mark121359 said:
Abolish the police, eh? Should work really, really swell for the City of Baltimore! We’re already on pace to surpass last year’s homicide rate! Abolish the police…hehehe. What’s next…eliminate the military???
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Stop sending the police forces to Israel for training. Thats where they were taught to kneel on peoples’ necks
 
Of course this is not Joe Biden’s platform but it’s definitely helping Trump in November.
 
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AlNg said:
People like me who want to abolish prisons and police, however, have a vision of a different society, built on cooperation instead of individualism, on mutual aid instead of self-preservation.”
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The author of this opinion needs to take a few sociology courses, including crime and deviance.

There are narcissists out there who don’t cooperate nor reciprocate and they could care less about anybody but themselves. That is why the police do not need to be abolished. Reformed, yes, with sound methods to keep narcissists off the police force.
 
Carmel said:
That is so sad. But true .
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@Carmel.

I’m afraid it is. The only thing that keeps this old man from screaming in despair is the memory of loved ones who were beacons of love and of right behaviour; this, and the knowledge…the certainty…that they were not alone. Salt of the earth, and may the Exalted reward them for it.
 
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Niblo said:
'Step back and view our species objectively from the outside, the way a zoologist would carefully observe any other animal, or see us the way every other creature perceives human beings. The brutal reality could not be more evident or more horrifying. We are the most relentless yet oblivious killers on Earth.
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You’ll find that even mice turn on each other when the population gets dense. We, unlike mice, are better at learning to live with each other not only more or less in peace but in a way that leads to culture and civilization.
 
AlNg said:
According to the following NY Times article, the police department should be abolished or at least as a start cut them in one half. “Fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities for them to brutalize and kill people.”
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Wow. This statement, that fewer police officers equals fewer opportunities to brutalize and kill people, is so backward it is hard to figure out where to start. Essentially, it turns conflates the entire cause and effect process. First, this misses a basic misunderstanding about how police forces are staffed. Police forces are staffed to meet demand. This means they staff to make sure they have a sufficient number of police to respond to the criminal offenses that are called in. Cutting police numbers doesn’t make the criminal offenses go away. On the contrary, they make the police less responsive to real criminal complaints and actually encourage crime. Second, there is no data that supports the conclusion that the police are looking for opportunities on an aggregate level to brutalize and kill people. Rather, the data suggests that instances of people being killed by police officers or escalation of force are in response to decisions made by criminals. The person making this statement is using anecdotal evidence and claiming it is the rule, but when you look at reporting provided by local police departments and from the FBI, who have an oversight role on behalf of the DOJ, this isn’t the case in the aggregate.
 
AlNg said:
“When people, especially white people, consider a world without the police, they envision a society as violent as our current one, merely without law enforcement — and they shudder. As a society, we have been so indoctrinated with the idea that we solve problems by policing and caging people that many cannot imagine anything other than prisons and the police as solutions to violence and harm. People like me who want to abolish prisons and police, however, have a vision of a different society, built on cooperation instead of individualism, on mutual aid instead of self-preservation.”
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Again, this is not the case. Police are usually responding to something such as a report of domestic violence, or another criminal complaint. Removing the police doesn’t remove these incidents, it merely makes it less likely that the police will have the response time capability to prevent them from escalating, and emboldens those who have little regard for the law in the first place. I agree to some extent that there should be a different vision of society, but the real answer is not to increase numbers of social workers, etc. Social workers are overwhelmingly used in reaction to a stimulus such as someone being diverted to a drug rehab plan because of a criminal complaint, or social services getting involved where domestic abuse was already responded to by the police. These people cannot build the virtues and character the prevent these types of events from happening. This must happen in the home. This means having two-parent homes where mothers and fathers can teach their kids values and life skills that steer them away from criminal activity. If you want to reduce the need for police, we need to start with changing our social values by encouraging things such as abstinence, marriage, completing one’s education, getting a job, etc. We need to encourage social organizations such as Churches, civic organizations, and the like, that further support families in these endeavors. We need to teach kids to respect authorities in the home first, and use that as an extension to teach them to respect other authorities such as the law and the police officers who enforce it. Only then will we reduce the numbers of negative interactions with the police. The last three weeks have only served to reinforce this. We have seen drastic increases in violent crime, property crime, and assaults against the police, which has led to higher instances of alleged police brutality. What we are seeing is not the failure of police, but the breakdown of social institutions that teach people to be good citizens which spurs the need for more police, and more militarized tactics.
 
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