Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

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rlg94086 said:
Regardless, I wouldn’t have condoned the murder of a slaveholder when it was legal. If he was in the middle of beating a slave to death in front of me, I would have killed him to prevent his acts, but I wouldn’t have shot him at his church.
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now i cant say how bad the murder was-i dont know the killer or his state of mind and reasons, however your slave example is interesting. if the man had just finished the beating and said ‘you’ll get this again tomorrow’ would you have intervened to prevent that act. i ask because i doubt tiller was going to do much besides murder more people tomorrow.

because of this at least fr awhile his deathcamp for the unborn will be closed for a few days to weeks. who knows how many women wont go somewhere else or will have time to reconsider. yes it will likely open again, but there is no telling how many lives this saved.
 
Actually -

neither side is right in this.

My anger is being directed toward the media who will try its best to make pro-lifers look bad.

Never mind which party is wrong or right. I am going to be deeply perturbed by how the media will have a pro-choice slant in this and how the media will capitalize on this.
 
MrS said:
Since you are new to this forum, please take this advice as sincere and friendly… Please remove the title Christian. It is going to cause you grief every time you claim to be a Christian, and then say anything that hints of a separation between abortion and pre-mediated murder.

Or, at the very least, admit you might not know what abortion is or when life begins.

Thank you.

.
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There is a difference. Especially in the case of 1rst trimester abortions (the bulk of the ones performed). In that case, what you have is the woman choosing not to supply the fetus with nutrients or space. That necessarily entails removing it. Because it is not yet viable, there is no point in removing it in one piece. S/he is going to die anyway.

In murder, the person is not refusing nutrients or space to a person (unless you have some weird situation where the person is responsible for caregiving and chooses to starve the person), but using an active means of removal (poison, guns, pillows, stockings, rope, wrench, hammer, knife, dishcloth (yes, it was a case)…) to eliminate a person. All the person needs to survive is for the perp not to kill them. In the case of abortion it’s a case of asking another person (the woman) to bear the burden of keeping the baby alive whether she wants to or not.

As to Christianity, I believe there are denoms that allow abortion in limited circumstances (LDS comes to mind as well as some Lutherans) and others that allow it outright (Episcopalians, UCC, Methodists). So I would say that it is not accurate to say that all Christians are anti-abortion.
 
BareKnuckler said:
Karma has its ways.
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There is a problem (no offense) with people who relish in the idea of Karma.

If you (general sense) are so fond of what-goes-around-comes-around, then don’t complain when misfortune comes back to bite you in the butt.
 
jay29 said:
+1 Just like that big abortion clinic owner who’s plane crashed into the Catholic Cemetery near the grave of aborted babies and now this doctor (Josef Mengele wannabe) who got off easy for his crimes against humanity.

1.) What goes around, comes around.
2.) You live by the sword, you will die by the sword.
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Yeah, that story of the plane crashing into the Catholic Cemetery was a chilling “coincidence”.
 
a_cermak said:
There is a difference. Especially in the case of 1rst trimester abortions (the bulk of the ones performed). In that case, what you have is the woman choosing not to supply the fetus with nutrients or space. That necessarily entails removing it. Because it is not yet viable, there is no point in removing it in one piece. S/he is going to die anyway.
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Huh? No the child wouldn’t die “anyway”. It dies because it’s killed by the abortionist. But for that, it would live.

Nor would you condone someone killing a born child by “depriving it of nutrients or space”. I guess not, anyway.
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
now i cant say how bad the murder was-i dont know the killer or his state of mind and reasons, however your slave example is interesting. if the man had just finished the beating and said ‘you’ll get this again tomorrow’ would you have intervened to prevent that act. i ask because i doubt tiller was going to do much besides murder more people tomorrow.

because of this at least fr awhile his deathcamp for the unborn will be closed for a few days to weeks. who knows how many women wont go somewhere else or will have time to reconsider. yes it will likely open again, but there is no telling how many lives this saved.
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I’m sorry, but I don’t advocate such action. The slavery equivalent you are alluding to is John Brown, whom Abraham Lincoln described as a “misguided fanatic.” If your goal is another Civil War over the issue of abortion, I can’t join you in such an endeavor.
 
Lady_Bug said:
There is a problem (no offense) with people who relish in the idea of Karma.

If you (general sense) are so fond of what-goes-around-comes-around, then don’t complain when misfortune comes back to bite you in the butt.
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That is not a problem, that is the fact. Karma happens to us all, I’d be scared if it didn’t. Karma is like death, its equal, it doesn’t have its favorites, it happens.

And just to let you know, I usually don’t, I usually try to stay away from doing wrong, so I don’t have to worry about anything I do causing me harm.
 
a_cermak said:
There is a difference. Especially in the case of 1rst trimester abortions (the bulk of the ones performed). In that case, what you have is the woman choosing not to supply the fetus with nutrients or space. That necessarily entails removing it. Because it is not yet viable, there is no point in removing it in one piece. S/he is going to die anyway.

In murder, the person is not refusing nutrients or space to a person (unless you have some weird situation where the person is responsible for caregiving and chooses to starve the person), but using an active means of removal (poison, guns, pillows, stockings, rope, wrench, hammer, knife, dishcloth (yes, it was a case)…) to eliminate a person. All the person needs to survive is for the perp not to kill them. In the case of abortion it’s a case of asking another person (the woman) to bear the burden of keeping the baby alive whether she wants to or not.

As to Christianity, I believe there are denoms that allow abortion in limited circumstances (LDS comes to mind as well as some Lutherans) and others that allow it outright (Episcopalians, UCC, Methodists). So I would say that it is not accurate to say that all Christians are anti-abortion.
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Well, we disagree on that, because I believe that starving Terry Schiavo to death was murder. A baby has a beating heart only 3 weeks after conception. That’s a life. When you take a life, you are killing. And the unborn baby is actively removed by a vacuum sucking it from the womb. That is the instrument of death. It’s not a plant that withers and dies if you just stop feeding it. It’s a very violent and grisly act and it is the active taking of a life.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Huh? No the child wouldn’t die “anyway”. It dies because it’s killed by the abortionist. But for that, it would live.

Nor would you condone someone killing a born child by “depriving it of nutrients or space”. I guess not, anyway.
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I mean it will die anyway outside the womb. And the decision not to supply nutrients or space is not decided by the doctor, but by the pregnant woman.

No a born child can be cared for by anyone. Pre-viability, with the state of our science at this moment, only the woman that is pregnant can keep that child alive. And if she chooses not to, then it will die.
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m sorry, but I don’t advocate such action. The slavery equivalent you are alluding to is John Brown, whom Abraham Lincoln described as a “misguided fanatic.” If your goal is another Civil War over the issue of abortion, I can’t join you in such an endeavor.
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actually i was mostly just probing to see your opinion more clearly.

and if we had another civil war it would have more than abortion to cover, there are plenty of evils that also need to be addressed. and yeah i think it would be a just war before long.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Huh? No the child wouldn’t die “anyway”. It dies because it’s killed by the abortionist. But for that, it would live.

Nor would you condone someone killing a born child by “depriving it of nutrients or space”. I guess not, anyway.
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Yeah…I can’t figure that post out. Apparently, starving someone to death and ripping them apart don’t equal murder. 🤷 At a minimum, it is death due to torture…I’m against that too…
 
a_cermak said:
As to Christianity, I believe there are denoms that allow abortion in limited circumstances (LDS comes to mind as well as some Lutherans) and others that allow it outright (Episcopalians, UCC, Methodists). So I would say that it is not accurate to say that all Christians are anti-abortion.
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I would love to see a so-called Christian try to justify abortion in the presence of Jesus Christ.
 
a_cermak said:
I mean it will die anyway outside the womb. And the decision not to supply nutrients or space is not decided by the doctor, but by the pregnant woman.

No a born child can be cared for by anyone. Pre-viability, with the state of our science at this moment, only the woman that is pregnant can keep that child alive. And if she chooses not to, then it will die.
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The woman is not chosing to deny the unborn child nutrients and space. She is chosing to have it removed from her body with a vacuum. Or by burning the baby’s lungs with saline to kill it in later pregnancy. If we leave a newborn baby to care for itself, it can not get nutrients or care for itself. If we don’t give food to a baby, it will die outside the womb. Your arguments are weak and disturbing.
 
a_cermak said:
There is a difference. Especially in the case of 1rst trimester abortions (the bulk of the ones performed). In that case, what you have is the woman choosing not to supply the fetus with nutrients or space. That necessarily entails removing it. Because it is not yet viable, there is no point in removing it in one piece. S/he is going to die anyway.

In murder, the person is not refusing nutrients or space to a person (unless you have some weird situation where the person is responsible for caregiving and chooses to starve the person), but using an active means of removal (poison, guns, pillows, stockings, rope, wrench, hammer, knife, dishcloth (yes, it was a case)…) to eliminate a person. All the person needs to survive is for the perp not to kill them. In the case of abortion it’s a case of asking another person (the woman) to bear the burden of keeping the baby alive whether she wants to or not.

As to Christianity, I believe there are denoms that allow abortion in limited circumstances (LDS comes to mind as well as some Lutherans) and others that allow it outright (Episcopalians, UCC, Methodists). So I would say that it is not accurate to say that all Christians are anti-abortion.
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If I confused you let me first apologize, and then make it clear…
  • Life begins at conception.
  • The form or appearance of that life changes from that point and on through life… baby, teen, adult, senior.
  • All life is sacred and is from God.
  • It is not above my pay grade to declare what faith - and science - agree on … when life begins.
  • It is not above my pay grade to declare that ending a life - by choice - is not only murder, but it is pre-meditated murder.
A Christian should be one who adheres to the Truth which is not something, it is somebody, and His name is Jesus Christ. Abortion is murder, and is against the Truth.

One cannot be Christian and pro-abortion in any manner or form.

In fact, one can not be moral, Christian or not, and approve, condone, or simply just ignore the fact that abortion is murder.

.
 
a_cermak said:
I mean it will die anyway outside the womb. And the decision not to supply nutrients or space is not decided by the doctor, but by the pregnant woman.

No a born child can be cared for by anyone. Pre-viability, with the state of our science at this moment, only the woman that is pregnant can keep that child alive. And if she chooses not to, then it will die.
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Right…so, if you remove a born child from his/her food source and he/she dies, is that murder then? Viability has nothing to do with the whether the unborn child is human or not. In fact, knowing that the child can’t survive on his/her own, I find the parent’s actions really horrific.
 
MrS said:
If I confused you let me first apologize, and then make it clear…
  • Life begins at conception.
  • The form or appearance of that life changes from that point and on through life… baby, teen, adult, senior.
  • All life is sacred and is from God.
  • It is not above my pay grade to declare what faith - and science - agree on … when life begins.
  • It is not above my pay grade to declare that ending a life - by choice - is not only murder, but it is pre-meditated murder.
A Christian should be one who adheres to the Truth which is not something, it is somebody, and His name is Jesus Christ. Abortion is murder, and is against the Truth.

One cannot be Christian and pro-abortion in any manner or form.

In fact, one can not be moral, Christian or not, and approve, condone, or simply just ignore the fact that abortion is murder.

.
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👍 exactly 👍
 
If being able to keep oneself alive is the criteria we should use to determine whether someone can be killed or not, then there are a lot of newborn infants in danger. Peter Singer, is that you?

BTW, I really think that Peter Singer edits his own Wikipedia page. Look at the spin in the criticism section!
 
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