Abortion is all that matters

[Divine3]

You are wrong and Op has freedom to believe and speak out that murder of children in the USA needs to be a voters first priority.

 

[thistle]

You are wrong and Op has freedom to believe and speak out that murder of children in the USA needs to be a voters first priority.

No, you are wrong. The Church allows Catholics to vote for a pro-choice candidate provided its not because they support the abortion views of the candidate.

I am against abortion. I think it’s a despicable crime. My comments above are neutral and only apply to facts. It is a fact the Church allows voting for such candidates.

 

[Peeps]

Imagine if for just one election cycle, all Catholics set aside other important issues and only voted based on abortion. In addition, they let the politicians know ahead of time that this would be happening. Almost all state and federal candidates that support abortion would be voted out of office. More sensible (and moral) abortion laws could then be passed. Once done, attention could return to the other important issues. Sure, this will probably never happen, but if Catholics stick together (and stop downplaying it as @yoo said), it could.

Also, I have heard that around 30% of US Congressmen would vote pro-life, but they don’t because of the pressure from their party.

I think this makes so much good sense! If the Evangelical Protestants would join with the Catholics on this, it could be a game-changer.

However, sadly, I think that there are many Democratic politicians who would LOSE their election rather than vote to “end a woman’s choice.” They have gone so far down the path of evil that they are calling evil good, and good evil. God help them to re-gain their moral compass! God, please open their eyes to the evil that they are promoting and help them to see that a woman should never have the ability to choose to kill an innocent life.

 

[Peeps]

Jesus was a survivor of infanticide but even so, He shone His spotlight on the poor, sick and disenfranchised as the test of our love. If they don’t matter, the unborn, invisible child is not likely to matter either.

No, this is backwards. If the UNBORN don’t matter, then the poor and disenfranchised won’t matter.

Many Democratic candidates claim to support legislation that will help the poor, the alien, the disenfranchised, etc. but you have to look at the voting record. All too often, their “support” is actually support for higher taxes that makes it MORE difficult for the near-poor and the lower middle class to stay afloat, and the higher-tax policies actually CREATE more poor! Also, higher taxes affect the ability of the middle class and upper middle class to be able to give generously in their communities and help those who need a helping hand.

Many of the Democratic policies hobble or even disallow the ability of local care organizations and faith-based organizations to help those in need of food, health care, counselling, housing, etc.

The basic philosophy of the current Democratic party is to give as much power as possible to the federal government, and trickle some of this power down to the States, and very little power to the local governments. This policy is disastrous as each State in the Union has different needs and different populations, and each city and town in each state has different needs and populations. Also, this policy threatens the Republic, which was envisioned by our Founding Fathers as One Union of many sovereign states!

I will admit that many Republicans chicken out when it comes to legislation that will give power back to the individual, the towns and cities, and the States. School policies are an example of this–the federal government keeps gaining more and more power over public schools, and the results have been awful, as test scores plummet and more children fail to obtain the basic skills and knowledge that is needed to succeed in the United States.

And abortion is the ultimate example of the power grab. The “right” to legalize abortion, or to criminalize it, belongs to the States, not the federal government!

Of course, Illinois (my beloved State) is so corrupt and has gone so far down the morality scale that we would probably not only have abortion, but REQUIRED abortion for children who test positive for a disability. So sad.

But first things first. Get it straight–when the UNBORN are protected by law, the poor, the aliens, the sick and elderly, the mentally-ill, the minorities, the LGBTQ, and all the rest of us, will be protected by the law. But as long as the UNBORN are endangered by the law, all the rest of the “undesirables” will be in danger. In fact, no one is safe—at any time, any group (e.g., Christians) could be determined to be a “threat”.

God help us!

 

[whatistrue]

Op has freedom to believe and speak out that murder of children in the USA needs to be a voters first priority.

Absolutely correct. However, the OP does NOT have the right to pronounce that someone else is “morally barred” from making their own prudential voting decision within established Church teaching.

 

[grzzz]

I don’t dispute the survey, but you miss my point, so maybe I need to be more specific. Catholics make up around 25% of the US voters. Even if just 75% of Catholics voted based on the teachings of the Church (instead of the roughly 50% currently), it would strongly tip the scale in favor of life.

Keep in mind that most surveys show that about 25% of the people who say that abortion should remain legal in all or most cases also say that they want more restrictions added to those laws.

 

[pnewton]

my understanding of being a Catholic and doing the right thing

The key word here is “my”, meaning your understanding. It’s good and solid. However, it may not be the only good and solid view. I almost agree, but would change my view as to being any reasonable chance of affecting significant change. And that issue is the sticking point, occasionally.

I think this is the third thread on this topic in the last two weeks. Is there a reason it was created instead of posting to one of those?

 

[Retsel]

“Other issues that people will be taking into consideration will include…”

national security: Those who were sent to keep the nation safe were killed before they had a chance.
integrity of the Union: Those with the highest morals/ideals were also killed.
funding for health: Billions are wasted each year propping the abortion industry.
education: Many of the best educators were slaughtered.
policing: The one’s sent to protect us never got the chance.
racism: The one’s with the know how are dead.
misogyny in politics: (Sorry, but this is just manipulative tv regurgitation.)
Flooding: The problem solvers weren’t born.
transport: Thirty percent or more of all transportion that should have been built, wasn’t.
That savings may be satisfying to some of the nationalist here, but for me, nothing but sadness.

 

[TheLittleLady]

I would advise reading the entire document, this section helps to see that there are many evils, here are some key points:

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...ciences-for-faithful-citizenship-part-two.cfm

27. Two temptations in public life can distort the Church’s defense of human life and dignity:

28. The first is a moral equivalence that makes no ethical distinctions between different kinds of issues involving human life and dignity. The direct and intentional destruction of innocent human life from the moment of conception until natural death is always wrong and is not just one issue among many. It must always be opposed.

1. Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who favors a policy promoting an intrinsically evil act, such as abortion, euthanasia, assisted suicide, deliberately subjecting workers or the poor to subhuman living conditions, redefining marriage in ways that violate its essential meaning, or racist behavior, if the voter’s intent is to support that position. In such cases, a Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other important moral issues involving human life and dignity.

35. There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable position even on policies promoting an intrinsically evil act may reasonably decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons. Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil.

36. When all candidates hold a position that promotes an intrinsically evil act, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, may decide to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods.

 

[Titivillus]

I do not understand?

Each person has one vote about which they must decide. They have not only each candidate’s position on issues, but the office they are running for, possible future repercussions, the voting pattern of their state or locality, and in a judicious manner, other issues.

Why or how should "the voting pattern of [my] state or locality" factor in my decision to whom to cast my vote?

Why would I cast my vote for anyone other than the candidate I’d like to see win, whether or not I believe anyone else in my community will vote the same?

 

[Londoner]

Security: Brexit will potentially harm national security. The deal must ensure military cooperation and intelligence sharing. A Labour government would be a threat to national security. The party is committed to our independent nuclear deterrent, but Jeremy Corbyn has said that he would never authorise its deployment. The party’s director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, would not pass security clearance due to links with terrorist organisations.

The Union: Scottish independence and the reunification of Ireland are believed to be real possibilities.

Health: Statistics on the cost of publicly-funded abortions are hard to find, but it’s probably around £150 million p.a. The biggest problem facing the NHS is that it is the worst healthcare system in the developed world. It needs either more funding or to be scrapped and rebuilt from basic principles. Brexit threatens healthcare problems from staff shortages to supply of medicines. Britain needs to train more doctors, nurses, etc. Boris Johnson came to power promising to build 40 new hospitals, but that figure has been revised to 6.

Education: Brexit threatens to massively decrease funding for research in higher education. Schools need better funding. We need to train and retain more teachers.

Policing: The Conservatives are claiming credit for promising to increase police numbers by recruiting enough police officers to do no more than restore the number of police officers to the number we had before the Conservatives came to power. Britain is experiencing an epidemic of knife crime and acid attacks. We are one of the least safe countries in Europe. It’s vital that when we leave the EU we continue to share information with other police forces and remain within the European Arrest Warrant scheme.

Racism: I was referring to antisemitism in the Labour Party and also the less publicised problem of Islamophobia and racism in the Conservative Party as well as the hardening of attitudes towards EU migrants.

Misogyny: I don’t know what you mean by “manipulative tv regurgitation”. I was referring to the threats of murder and rape faced on a daily basis by female politicians.

Flooding: Our next government needs a long-term strategy on how to prevent flooding. Corbyn is claiming the Conservative government puts more resources into flooding in the south of England than the north. I’m not sure whether this is true, but it seems like an appeal to working-class voters in traditionally Labour-voting constituencies in the north of England. Climate change needs to be addressed.

Transport: I was thinking about whether the government should continue to invest billions in the high-speed rail link between London and Birmingham or should invest the money in improving rail links between regional hubs, especially in the Midlands and the north of England.

Other than having a larger population, I don’t know how abortion being illegal would really address any of these issues. Of the four declared candidates in my constituency, all represent parties that support abortion. The personal opinions of three of the candidates are unknown.

 

[Sundiver]

Thistle, are you sure about this?

The Church allows a Catholic to vote for a pro-choice Catholic provided they are not doing so because they agree with the candidate’s position on abortion.
Do not tell us Catholics are morally barred from voting for a pro-choice candidate because it is not true.

If the Catholic Church is teaching this then the Church is wrong. In any other crime if you are an accomplice what happens to you? Just because it is government policy does not give anyone a free pass to commit mortal sin. Anyone involved with this is going to answer to the eternal judge. If you believe you can give power to someone who is actively working to promote or support abortion you are indulging in pure fantasy. If you are maintaining the laws that support abortion then you are working towards your own destruction.

 

[ProVobis]

And abortion is the ultimate example of the power grab. The “right” to legalize abortion, or to criminalize it, belongs to the States, not the federal government!

I agree but if the ERA gets ratified then all we can hope for is that our representatives refuse to fund any kind of abortion.

 

[Brendan_64]

I don’t know where you’re from, but on 12 December the UK has a general election in which Brexit is pretty much all that matters.

I also live in England and am in favour of Brexit. Instinctively I would like to see a decent Conservative majority so that they can, amongst other things, deliver Brexit.

But I abortion is far, far more important than Brexit and personally I will note vote for a candidate that is in favour of liberalising abortion law (which would seem to rule out many Conservative candidates, including some ardent Brexiteers, I believe)

 

[Aquinas11]

But first things first. Get it straight–when the UNBORN are protected by law, the poor, the aliens, the sick and elderly, the mentally-ill, the minorities, the LGBTQ, and all the rest of us, will be protected by the law. But as long as the UNBORN are endangered by the law, all the rest of the “undesirables” will be in danger. In fact, no one is safe—at any time, any group (e.g., Christians) could be determined to be a “threat”.

Correct

Slavery = rationalized by Democrats as blacks aren’t real people

Abortion = rationalized by Democrats as babies aren’t real people

 

[Londoner]

Realistically, who can you vote for who is anti-abortion? Apart from a small number of individual candidates who are Catholic or conservative evangelical, the only way of voting for a pro-life candidate is voting for a fringe party like the Pro-Life Alliance, the Christian Party, the British National Party, etc., which don’t even stand in all constituencies and/or have horrible policies in other areas.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Abortion is wrong.
But it is not all that matters.
There are many, many other issues that have an effect on us all, including affordable health care, sensible gun regulation, opioid addiction climate change, election security, affordable housing, fair wages (increasing minimum wage) and good jobs, cost of college, energy, just to name a few.
I am not downplaying abortion, but I do believe that we, Catholics, cannot just be one-issue voters.
It is important that potential voters educate themselves on all of the issues.

 

[SaintJude]

The right to life is the fundamental human right on which others depend. I would thus agree. Vote for a pro-life candidate and then asses other issues after. If they can’t defend life then can they be trusted in secondary matters

 

[SaintJude]

It is for me, a fellow Londoner but I grant your point. It’s just not on the radar for most people. This election is pretty much a referendum on Brexit

 

[TheLittleLady]

To look at it another way, it is important to respect the dignity of those who are already born at least as those who will be potentially conceived in the future.