Abortion is all that matters

[pnewton]

If you want to take the gloves off then tying in the Democratic party with racism is an excellent way to do it. Rather than swinging wildly, why not make some constructive comments?

It is not a wild swing, but a parallel. It is also true. But beyond the Democrats, the best way to garner support for laws which allow for mistreatment is always to portray them in a light that robs them of part or all of their humanity, whether it be a slave, a babe in the womb, a Mexican immigrant, or the Irish.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

If you want to take the gloves off then tying in the Democratic party with racism is an excellent way to do it. Rather than swinging wildly, why not make some constructive comments?

It is not a wild swing, but a parallel. It is also true. But beyond the Democrats, the best way to garner support for laws which allow for mistreatment is always to portray them in a light that robs them of part or all of their humanity, whether it be a slave, a babe in the womb, a Mexican immigrant, or the Irish.

That’s again not constructive. Do you have any positive proposals at all? Surely there must be something.

 

[pnewton]

That’s again not constructive.

I would not have posted it, had I deemed it to be not constructive. But you are entitled to your own opinion. Just know that your opinion will not shut mine down.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

That’s again not constructive.

I would not have posted it, had I deemed it to be not constructive. But you are entitled to your own opinion. Just know that your opinion will not shut mine down.

How was your post in any way constructive? What does it do to reduce the number of abortions? All you did was denigrate those who support women having the choice. All I see is negativity. Where are the concrete proposals to solve the problem?

Do you actually have any that you could share?

 

[pnewton]

All you did was denigrate those who support women having the choice.

I did not say I was supportive of that, and I do see a big flaw in that position. “Choice” was also the compromise used to promote slavery, that is, a state was given the choice via vote to be slave or free. The problem with choice is that “choose” is a word that requires and object. What is being chosen?

So, what do we allow choice for abortion and not slavery? The reasoning is that slavery involves another person. Well, so does abortion, yet we argue that we should allow choice for one person to kill another. I bring this up, because while you may not see the parallels, they are there, and many others see them. If this is a denigration, it is because of the untenable “pro-choice” position.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

All you did was denigrate those who support women having the choice.

I did not say I was supportive of that, and I do see a big flaw in that position. “Choice” was also the compromise used to promote slavery, that is, a state was given the choice via vote to be slave or free. The problem with choice is that “choose” is a word that requires and object. What is being chosen?

So, what do we allow choice for abortion and not slavery? The reasoning is that slavery involves another person. Well, so does abortion, yet we argue that we should allow choice for one person to kill another. I bring this up, because while you may not see the parallels, they are there, and many others see them. If this is a denigration, it is because of the untenable “pro-choice” position.

So no proposals. OK…

 

[Nihilo]

when voting, this is the first thing you must consider. if the person is pro-choice and has any means of affecting change to abortion laws, you are morally barred from voting from them. Abortion is the greatest evil of our time. People downplay it and that is morally wrong.

I appreciate your conviction and applaud your argument.

I disagree but take an identical stance on instead the right to bear arms.

My single issue as a single issue voter is the right to bear arms, whereas yours is abortion. I respect you and your choice, I just differ.

As an anti-gun controller, I am in the same camp as libertarians, so I while being a one-issue voter, am careful to clarify that I am liberal and not libertarian.

You might find yourself in the same camp as conservatives, in being single-issue on abortion, so if you don’t completely identify as conservative you might want to clarify that to people also.

 

[thistle]

Its an auto excommunication to support or conduct an Abortion.

It is only automatic excommunication if the person knows the mortal sin they are committing carries such a penalty. If they don’t know that they are not excommunicated.

 

[BTypical]

Obviously, it’s morally permissible to vote for someone like President Trump even if he isn’t entirely pro life because the alternative would be a completely pro choice Democrat.

It’s not that clear-cut. President Trump wants to make abortion illegal and that is good. However, we also have to consider that making abortion illegal will not put a stop to the practice and ask ourselves what’s more important: making it illegal, or stopping it from happening?

The social policies that President Trump supports make women more likely to seek abortions. The social policies that other candidates support, when enacted at the local level, have shown a direct correlation with women being less likely to seek abortions and, consequently, with a reduction in the number of abortions performed.

Of course I’d like to see abortion made illegal, but more than that, I’d like to see it stopped. That’s why I don’t demand that my candidates check off the “make abortion illegal” box. I’m more interested in seeing what they’re going to do to make abortion less likely to happen at all.

 

[sallybutler]

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment . And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Abortion is a genocide. Its murder and is the worst sin perpetrated on earth. The ten commandments should be enough to discern this.

 

[Annie]

So no proposals. OK…

I think clarifying the framework of discussion is also constructive. The first step in finding a solution is to find out what the problem is. To dismiss that part of the discussion as “not constructive” ignores the necessity of understanding the truth of the problem.

 

[Annie]

The social policies that President Trump supports make women more likely to seek abortions. The social policies that other candidates support, when enacted at the local level, have shown a direct correlation with women being less likely to seek abortions and, consequently, with a reduction in the number of abortions performed.

First, correlation does not equal causation…

More importantly, this type of view looks at the problem rather superficially. It seems that the actual reason women find themselves deciding whether or not to have an abortion is that they have (almost always) decided to have sex at a time when they are not ready to have a child.

Maybe that problem needs to be addressed.

 

[JMartyr73340]

“…Now a child is the very sign and sacrament of personal freedom. He is a fresh free will added to the wills of the world; he is something that his parents have freely chosen to produce and which they freely agree to protect. They can feel that any amusement he gives (which is often considerable) really comes from him and from them and from nobody else. He has been born without the intervention of any master or lord. He is a creation and a contribution; he is their own creative contribution to creation. He is also a much more beautiful, wonderful, amusing and astonishing thing than any of the stale stories or jingling jazz tunes turned out by the machines. When men no longer feel that he is so, they have lost the appreciation of primary things, and therefore all sense of proportion about the world. People who prefer the mechanical pleasures, to such a miracle, are jaded and enslaved. They are preferring the very dregs of life to the first fountains of life. They are preferring the last, crooked, indirect, borrowed, repeated and exhausted things of our dying Capitalist civilization, to the reality which is the only rejuvenation of all civilization. It is they who are hugging the chains of their old slavery; it is the child who is ready for the new world.”

G.K. Chesterton

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

So no proposals. OK…

I think clarifying the framework of discussion is also constructive. The first step in finding a solution is to find out what the problem is. To dismiss that part of the discussion as “not constructive” ignores the necessity of understanding the truth of the problem.

I would have thought that the problem was too many abortions. Am I missing something here? So to solve that problem, we need to look at the reasons why women have abortions and discuss whether those reasons can be addressed in a meaningful way.

 

[Anrakyr]

Of course I’d like to see abortion made illegal, but more than that, I’d like to see it stopped . That’s why I don’t demand that my candidates check off the “make abortion illegal” box. I’m more interested in seeing what they’re going to do to make abortion less likely to happen at all.

That is lateral thinking right there, I like you.

First, correlation does not equal causation…

More importantly, this type of view looks at the problem rather superficially. It seems that the actual reason women find themselves deciding whether or not to have an abortion is that they have (almost always) decided to have sex at a time when they are not ready to have a child.

Maybe that problem needs to be addressed.

No that problem doesn’t need to be addressed. Even in a near-perfect world where everything seems fine, the church says relations between spouses are (while not required) are important to a healthy relationship. As such even if the parents to be don’t want children they are expected to still consummate their marriage.

With that in mind, most Americans are two accidents away from homelessness. First, something happens that destroys the income. Second, something happens to evaporate the savings. Given the epidemic levels of trash foods that are the only way to afford to eat, most homes are literally one non-lethal heart attack from bankruptcy.

Poverty is the problem. We can’t fight court battles for what’s due us without money. You can’t support a child without money. You can’t do anything to deal with a crisis without money.

But theres a clinic you can walk into for an hour and crisis averted.

See the problem?

 

[Annie]

First, the majority of abortions in the US are performed on unmarried women, which means that your proposal that the need for relations is important to the marriage is relevant to only 17% of the problem.

As such even if the parents to be don’t want children they are expected to still consummate their marriage.

And I would not say this is accurate either. If parents do not want children, they are expected to abstain from relations, not kill a child who might be conceived.

As to the 83% of women obtaining abortions who are unmarried, what?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

If parents do not want children, they are expected to abstain from relations, not kill a child who might be conceived.

As to the 83% of women obtaining abortions who are unmarried, what?

You aren’t able to convince people to be continent until marriage. This approach is never going to work.

 

[thistle]

As I have said I am totally against abortion which is a despicable sin.

However, to those who want to make it illegal throughout the entire country how will that work in practice?
In 2017 in the US there were around 900,000 known abortions (I haven’t seen figures for backstreet ones). Abortions often involve more than the woman having the abortion (support from family/friends).
Do you plan to jail possibly 2 million people annually??

I would like abortions to stop but I don’t know what the answer is.

Remember Prohibition? Nobody stopped drinking. They just did it illegally.

 

[Annie]

Do you plan to jail possibly 2 million people annually??

First time offenses could be doctors lose their licenses for a year and women receive counseling. Double that for the second, and jail time only after the third time.

Remember Prohibition? Nobody stopped drinking. They just did it illegally.

First, drinking and having an abortion are two entirely separate things.

Second, we now have a nation that is incredibly divided. I do not think we would be at such extremes were it not for the issue of abortion.

And third, should we let the knowledge that people will break the law stop us from making laws?

 

[thistle]

Do you plan to jail possibly 2 million people annually??

Different things but same principle. Ban something that is so widespread simply pushes it underground. There would likely be a massive increase in backstreet abortions.

As for jail that is not practical if you have to jail millions every year.