Abortion is all that matters

[Freddy]

I don’t dispute the survey, but you miss my point, so maybe I need to be more specific. Catholics make up around 25% of the US voters. Even if just 75% of Catholics voted based on the teachings of the Church (instead of the roughly 50% currently), it would strongly tip the scale in favor of life.

Well…yeah. But I was pointing out the fact that a significant number of Catholics have no problem with it. To say that if they didn’t then we could have a vote to make it illegal is to all intents a tautology: ‘If more people vote to make it illegal then it will become illegal’.

 

[Freddy]

Londoner:

I don’t know where you’re from, but on 12 December the UK has a general election in which Brexit is pretty much all that matters.

I also live in England and am in favour of Brexit. Instinctively I would like to see a decent Conservative majority so that they can, amongst other things, deliver Brexit.

But I abortion is far, far more important than Brexit and personally I will note vote for a candidate that is in favour of liberalising abortion law (which would seem to rule out many Conservative candidates, including some ardent Brexiteers, I believe)

Why not have a referendum on abortion as did the Irish. Would you accept the people’s decision as you do with Brexit? Something tells me you wouldn’t. That it’s far more important. Which is exactly what every other person who voted would say.

Let me ask you a simple question. If you were in a position to do so, which of the church teachings would you enforce over the will of the people?

Actually, no. Don’t answer. It’s a trick question. I’m actually asking you if you’d favour a theocracy in some aspects of life.

 

[Freddy]

Peeps:

But first things first. Get it straight–when the UNBORN are protected by law, the poor, the aliens, the sick and elderly, the mentally-ill, the minorities, the LGBTQ, and all the rest of us, will be protected by the law. But as long as the UNBORN are endangered by the law, all the rest of the “undesirables” will be in danger. In fact, no one is safe—at any time, any group (e.g., Christians) could be determined to be a “threat”.

Correct

Slavery = rationalized by Democrats as blacks aren’t real people

Abortion = rationalized by Democrats as babies aren’t real people

If you want to take the gloves off then tying in the Democratic party with racism is an excellent way to do it. Rather than swinging wildly, why not make some constructive comments?

How do you think we can all reduce the number of abortions even further (as they have been falling for decades)?

 

[Brendan_64]

Realistically, who can you vote for who is anti-abortion?

There are quite a few MPs who have a good track record on voting against liberalising abortion, euthanasia etc. Most, but by no means all, tend to be Conservatives (although many Conservatives have also voted for liberalising abortion). Look up the voting record of any MP that is standing for re-election and question any new candidate on his/her stance on life issues.

The voting record of MPs on life issues is not do difficult to get hold of. Don’t just assume that they all vote the same way and all support abortion, they don’t.

I don’t know who your MP is, but you could search for how he/she voted on liberalising abortion in Northern Ireland, on here.

Find out how your MP voted on the extreme abortion amendment to the Northern Ireland Bill – Right To Life UK

Or check how your MP has voted on other life issues in the past, on here.

MP Voting Record on Abortion, Euthanasia in the UK: How Your MP Voted | Where Do They Stand?

My current MP, who won’t be standing now as he was one of the Tory MPs who lost the party whip over Brexit, had I think a better than average record on life issues. He wasn’t perfect, but better than most MPs I thought. I’m trying to find out what his sucessor’s views on life issues are should he be elected, which looks likely.

 

[Annie]

Someone might live in a swing state and decide to vote for a not-so-pro-life candidate who will support the nominees for the USSC justices the pro-life president nominated.

Someone else might be in a similar position, but in a very red or very blue state. This person might vote for the very pro-life third-party candidate instead, knowing the outcome of the election is assured.

 

[Emeraldlady]

No, this is backwards. If the UNBORN don’t matter, then the poor and disenfranchised won’t matter.

That isn’t Pope Francis’ motive. It’s not about diminishing the importance of the unborn. It’s about raising the importance of the poor, sick and disenfranchised.

The Pope and Cdl Cupich and McElroy are not making political recommendations. They are rightly urging people to have a more Christlike regard for all the human dignity matters spoken of by the Gospels. It’s about having an unconditional prolife attitude. It’s small and compromising thinking to think we are totally locked out of that by politics. Being unconditionally prolife will produce better politicians by the demand of an undivided force of Catholic populace. That was the original power of Christianity to build the first Christian societies. We’ve lost that power because Christians have put both their political and national identities, above their Christian identity.

 

[Brian_K]

I think the divisive tone of the issue is more important than laws. The problem is less the availability of abortion than the desire of parents to be allowed to kill their children. I was reflecting on participating in a pro-life walk, and chose not to carry a sign because, to me, it sends the message of you are wrong, when my motive for being there is that my sins have contributed to a culture of selfishness, of which abortion is one of may symptoms, and it seemed like a small gesture of penance to participate. Maybe that penance will draw down God’s grace to change the hearts of women considering abortion.

 

[yoo]

there is literally NOTHING IN THIS WORLD that is on the same scale of evil as abortion. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. In the US ALONE - 56 million kids have been poisoned, crushed, sliced alive. Abortion is like Nazism, its like slavery, its like any genocide ever. Replace the world abortion with genocide and then keep telling us its ok to vote for someone who is pro-genocide.
#justsaying

 

[Londoner]

I’m not saying that abortion isn’t an important issue, just that it isn’t an issue that one can easily vote on. If we had a Conservative Party that advocated making abortion illegal and a Labour Party that advocated making abortion ever more easily available I’d see that there was a clear choice between pro-life and pro-choice parties. But as it is, every mainstream party in the UK supports abortion. Even Margaret Thatcher supported abortion, despite being our most conservative prime minister since the 1960s (if not before) and being a deeply believing Christian. So it may be an important issue for people personally, but I don’t think it’s an issue on which elections will be fought.

Why not have a referendum on abortion as did the Irish.

Referendums are in general a terrible idea. A properly functioning legislature has much better opportunities to consider all the arguments. That’s why bills have three readings, committee stage, and report stage in both houses and consideration of amendments. Also, the British Parliament has a relatively high proportion of members who are lawyers, doctors, philosophers, etc. The Irish only had a referendum on abortion because it involved amending the Constitution.

Would you accept the people’s decision as you do with Brexit? Something tells me you wouldn’t.

I’m not sure who this is addressed to. I would hope that abortion was never put to a public vote, because I doubt the public are ideally qualified to vote on it. The main problem with the Brexit referendum is that nobody knew what kind of Brexit they were voting for, voters were given false information, and there was illegal overspending and foreign interference. Not that I want to open that can of worms. If we had a referendum on abortion it would have to be clear under what circumstances abortion would be legal, e.g. for what reasons, up to what stage of pregnancy, whether parental consent would be requires for minors, etc.

If you were in a position to do so, which of the church teachings would you enforce over the will of the people?

I have a relatively low opinion of the will of the people except insofar as we, the people, elect our representatives in the House of Commons. On the other hand, I have a high opinion of the British constitution and would never advocate enforcing Church doctrine over the will of Parliament.

I don’t know who your MP is, but you could search for how he/she voted on liberalising abortion in Northern Ireland, on here.

My MP voted for liberalising abortion in Northern Ireland. I didn’t vote for her last time and I probably won’t vote for her this time. Out of curiosity, I could find out where the other candidates stand.

 

[Crocus]

Jason Kenney, a Catholic and member of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter.

I did not know that.

Ordinariate: … a jurisdiction within the Church, the equivalent of a diocese, for priests and laypeople from an Anglican background, that enables them to retain elements of their Anglican patrimony after entering the Catholic Church. Its territory extends over the United States and Canada. Former Methodists and former members of denominations such as the United Church of Canada are also included …

 

[Peeps]

there is literally NOTHING IN THIS WORLD that is on the same scale of evil as abortion. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. In the US ALONE - 56 million kids have been poisoned, crushed, sliced alive. Abortion is like Nazism, its like slavery, its like any genocide ever. Replace the world abortion with genocide and then keep telling us its ok to vote for someone who is pro-genocide.
#justsaying

I absolutely agree with this.

This doesn’t mean that I ignore the poor, the alien, the elderly, the addicted, the oppressed, etc. Indeed, we need to do as much as we can to help these folks because it is sometimes because of poverty, lack of citizenship, age (too young), addictions, fears of attacks because of race or some other reason, etc. that women seek abortions. However, we must not ignore the studies that make it clear that many women who seek abortions have adequate incomes, are citizens, are mature (not teens), are healthy and not addicted, and are not in any danger. Many women seek an abortion simply because they do not wish to have a child at that time.

As long as abortion is legal, we are living in a cursed nation, and we can only plead with the Lord to have mercy on us all for the sake of the few truly righteous in the land.

 

[Freddy]

I have a relatively low opinion of the will of the people except insofar as we, the people, elect our representatives in the House of Commons.

Democracy? Don’t start me on the failure of democracy. The Brexit referendum was a case of asking an incredibly complex question (which, I would argue, didn’t need to be and should not have been asked in the first place) of a population ignorant of that which they were exactly voting for.

Some arguments in this thread are pointing out that votes are not decided on black and white, yes or no options. Life isn’t that simple. We live in an incredibly complex multi-faceted world. We like to think that those we vote into power are in a position to make educated decisions on our behalf. And will do so. The utter failure of those in power to do just that is the greatest failure of the democratic process in my lifetime.

Anyway. Rant over…

 

[steve-b]

when voting, this is the first thing you must consider. if the person is pro-choice and has any means of affecting change to abortion laws, you are morally barred from voting from them. Abortion is the greatest evil of our time. People downplay it and that is morally wrong.

In addition,

It’s not just the individual politician it’s the party platform that REALLY determines the direction of the overall realities

The platform of both parties on all issues

Re: abortion, in particular

Democrats on the issues

Republican on the issues

To use a great line from the movie Gladiators

What we do in life echoes in eternity

 

[grzzz]

That is so true about the party platform. I have personally spoken to several of my state legislators about this and have heard the same from others - that a decent percentage (20-30%) of legislators who vote pro-abortion ONLY do it because their party demands it (otherwise they lose support and funding for their next election). If they had their way they would vote pro-life.

 

[steve-b]

That is so true about the party platform. I have personally spoken to several of my state legislators about this and have heard the same from others - that a decent percentage (20-30%) of legislators who vote pro-abortion ONLY do it because their party demands it (otherwise they lose support and funding for their next election). If they had their way they would vote pro-life.

IOW they’ll sell their soul for a lousy job.

 

[yoo]

YES. THIS EXACTY. We as catholics should really not be debating how bad abortion is.

 

[yoo]

I honestly do not understand at all how we can weigh the opioid epidemic, climate change, taxes against the genocide of millions of unborn children.
Like can someone actually explain this to me.

 

[steve-b]

I honestly do not understand at all how we can weigh the opioid epidemic, climate change, taxes against the genocide of millions of unborn children.
Like can someone actually explain this to me.

Free Will is a HUGE gift from God with HUGE results, good or bad depending on the choices we make good or bad.

That’s why I gave that quote

What we do in life echoes in eternity

 

[yoo]

just so we all know …

abortion = genocide.

 

[Lysander]

Its an auto excommunication to support or conduct an Abortion. Violates the 10 commandmants, God’s Will. Also its clearly a Human being.