Abortion is all that matters

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I honestly do not understand at all how we can weigh the opioid epidemic, climate change, taxes against the genocide of millions of unborn children.
Like can someone actually explain this to me.
Because the lack of respect for the unborn did not just appear suddenly. It is the product of selfishness and greed especially systemic selfishness and greed which as turned abortion into a ‘right’. As Christians we are very well aware of how embracing the Gospel uncompromisingly, changes the way we view others and inspires gratitude for the gifts God has given us. Pope Francis has a very clear view of this ecological system of connectedness. Thank God for his courage in demanding a reorientation of our faith life. My hope and prayers are that all Christians by the grace of God will come to see the grave importance of living fearlessly in our modern times, not picking and choosing which Gospel issues we champion but embracing them all.
 
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yoo:
just so we all know …

abortion = genocide.
And

infanticide
Jesus was a survivor of infanticide but He still saw it as a product of the diseases of the day.
 
While abortion is the worst of possible evils. Lets not forget the other evils that dems promote. Transgenderism. Promoted in schools to mere kindergartners! LGBT indoctrination of kids. Drag queen story hour at public libraries to young children. Next to the unborn, these kids are the true innocents, being subjected to sick experiments like they’re Guinea pigs. How demonic!
Matthew 18:6 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

6 But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.
 
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It’s not just the individual politician it’s the party platform that REALLY determines the direction of the overall realities
I followed this advice and voted for Rauner (R) who ended up signing an abortion funding bill.

Personally I wish they’d do away with party platforms.
 
Some arguments in this thread are pointing out that votes are not decided on black and white, yes or no options. Life isn’t that simple. We live in an incredibly complex multi-faceted world. We like to think that those we vote into power are in a position to make educated decisions on our behalf. And will do so. The utter failure of those in power to do just that is the greatest failure of the democratic process in my lifetime.
Actually, in the U.S., it’s not necessarily true that our “elected officials are in a position to make educated decisions on our behalf.”

Take my state, Illinois. At the top of state, we have Chicago, one of the great cities of the U.S., and for that matter, a great city of the world.

At the bottom of the state, we have the Shawnee National Forest, a haven for many varieties of wildlife including a thriving population of bobcats.

The western border of Illinois is the great Mississippi River and a population of people who know that river better than I know my own house.

The interior of the state is mainly farmland, with some of the richest topsoil in the world.

Scattered every ten miles or so are tiny towns, most with a population between 300 and 1500.

And then there are the huge universities like U of I, NIU, SIU, WIU, and EIU–in college towns with huge old houses that have been converted in rooming places. The huge student population shares their college town with a crew of professors who try hard to convert the many small-town Illinois young people to their mainly liberal and godless value system.

Our state is ranked 49th when it comes to financial stability. Many learned people (those liberal professors included!) predict that by 2028, Illinois will be totally broke and underwater. People are fleeing from our state and the property taxes which are among the highest in the U.S.; our Northern Illinois city alone lost 3000 people last year. This population loss results in even less taxes going into the state coffers and brings us even closer to a financial disaster.

In diners and coffee shops, in fine Chicago eateries and small bars, much of the conversation in this state is about how Chicago doesn’t understand how the people down state (which is currently defined as any area outside of Chicago) live their lives!, and Chicagoans lament that the rest of the state doesn’t understand how they live in the Windy City!

Even with a state, there are vast difference. And all the states are so different that the other states–one size law doesn’t fit all!

So yes, it’s very hard for elected officials to become educated enough to truly make educated decisions on our behalf.
 
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So yes, it’s very hard for elected officials to become educated enough to truly make educated decisions on our behalf.
We have the same problems in Australia. My state (NSW) is about twice the size of Illinois and has major cities, tiny towns, baking desert, farmland, bush, snowfields…

So that’s why we have three levels of government: Council, State and Federal. If I want someone to make sure the beaches are clean I will vote for someone who is in a position to do this. He’ll run on local issues and I’ll vote for local issues. Same with state elected officials. They aren’t specifically interested in my local beach but the whole coastline. And with federly elected officials, they’ll be concerned with Australia’s coastline as a border. I’ll vote for each person depending on their responsibility and how I want to see them exercise it.

I expect my local councillor to be up to speed on how to keep rubbish off the beach but I don’t expect him to be qualified in border protection.

Three levels of government. Very many council elections. A few state elections. And one federal election.
 
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I honestly do not understand at all how we can weigh the opioid epidemic, climate change, taxes against the genocide of millions of unborn children.
Like can someone actually explain this to me.
Because how you pose it is not how it plays out in actual politics.

The choice is not between “stop millions of abortions” and those other things you mention. Electing pro-life politicians, even in massive numbers, may reduce the abortion rate, but it is not going to reduce the abortion rate to zero. So the actual choice presented is not in stopping millions of abortions, but instead stopping a much smaller number of abortions via regulation.

But things get even more complex. The goal is to minimize the number of abortions performed. While restricting access to abortion is one way of doing so, so can laws that make people less inclined to want an abortion to begin with. Economic hardship is a major incentive to get an abortion, but (generally speaking) it’s the same politicians who are “pro-life” that are against the social welfare programs that could aid someone with an unwanted pregnancy and therefore make them more willing to bring it to term! How often do you hear a pro-life politician suggest anything other than regulation/criminalization as a way to stop abortion

The ideal politician, of course, would be one who wants abortion banned (or at least restricted) while also being in favor of policies that would make people feel less forced to choose an abortion to begin with. But it’s a rare election where such a candidate is available. In fact, other than the small-but-growing American Solidarity Party, does any political party in the US, large or small, hold to such a platform of actually wanting to attack abortion on these multiple fronts?

Note that what I have discussed is confined to the United States. I expect matters may be different in other countries, particularly those where you don’t have two parties dominating discourse to the extent they do in the US. But in the US, that’s the way things are.

So yes, abortion is bad. Very bad. I myself have never voted for a pro-choice candidate. Nevertheless, when it comes to electing politicians, the actual question is not what the abortion rate is, but how much the abortion rate is actually reduced by “pro-lifers”–or more practically, the kind of “pro-lifers” that are in the Republican Party. And that number (whose exact value I am unsure of but is certainly far less than “millions”) would be the one that someone should be weighing in comparison to the other issues, not the full number of abortions which will not be reduced to zero under any plausible situation, thereby making the total number meaningless when it comes to weighing it when it comes to voting.

Also, while I don’t agree with everything in this article, it is worth considering:

 
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I’m not saying that abortion isn’t an important issue, just that it isn’t an issue that one can easily vote on. If we had a Conservative Party that advocated making abortion illegal and a Labour Party that advocated making abortion ever more easily available I’d see that there was a clear choice between pro-life and pro-choice parties.
Then perhaps vote for individual candidates, as opposed to parties. Perhaps find out where candidates stand on life issues and vote accordingly?

I would also say that Labour party policy has hardened considerably I think, and, at the 2017 general election their manifesto included the statement, “Labour will continue to ensure
a woman’s right to choose a safe,
legal abortion – and we will work
with the Assembly to extend that
right to women in Northern Ireland.” That would seem to be a big shift from a position of leaving such issues down to the individual consciences of MPs, I think. That said, there are, I believe, some individual Labour MPs who hold pro-life positions.

Perhaps check out the individual candidates voting records (or try to find out their individual views if they haven’t held office before) before voting.
 
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This is perhaps a case where the options given in a poll significantly affect the results.

Historical polling from Gallup:


In the US, for the most part, we have abortion being legal in all circumstances. Indeed, likely the most liberal abortion laws in major Democratic countries. Yet only 25% of the people support that. So you could be wrong about such an election result.
 
But things get even more complex. The goal is to minimize the number of abortions performed. While restricting access to abortion is one way of doing so, so can laws that make people less inclined to want an abortion to begin with. Economic hardship is a major incentive to get an abortion, but (generally speaking) it’s the same politicians who are “pro-life” that are against the social welfare programs that could aid someone with an unwanted pregnancy and therefore make them more willing to bring it to term! How often do you hear a pro-life politician suggest anything other than regulation/criminalization as a way to stop abortion
Not sure if you are a woman or not?

Two points:

For years, I have read the secular women’s magazines, especially Glamour, but also Redbook, Allure, and Good Housekeeping. Only in the last year have I stopped reading these magazines because much of their content is now available only in an online format, and I don’t want to invest so much time sitting at a computer. (There’s just something about putting my feet up with a magazine…!)

These magazines make it clear that the majority of abortions are performed on women who have adequate means and a secure situation. That’s one reason why affluent women fight to keep abortion legal.

Stats from various pro-life organizations also make it clear that a large number of abortions are performed on women who are comfortable financially.

In other words, convenience, not need, is the reason why many women in the U.S. choose to have an abortion rather than have a child.

Both sides say this–the liberal women’s and the conservative pro-life organizations. Both sides publish stats.

However, the abortion rate among African Americans, which was very low in the early days of Roe vs. Wade, has risen. I believe the last stat that I saw was around 25% of African American babies are aborted. In other words, they are taking advantage of abortion as a method (made available courtesy of liberal politicians, mainly Democrats) to try to rise up in life.

Keep in mind, too, that the stats about African American abortions don’t always reveal the economic status of the women, so it’s very likely that many abortions are performed on African American women who have financial and social means.

Secondly, It seems you are making the assumption that government aid is a good way to help the poor. But real life seems to indicate that most government programs cost a fortune and do not result in a an upward movement in financial security of the poor and disenfranchised, whereas programs created by private organizations (e.g., the Mennonite Central Committee) DO have a significant impact on reducing poverty.

So many of us would not vote for even a pro-life Democrat because we do not believe that government created and managed programs, all paid for by our tax dollars, are effective in reducing poverty and helping people improve their situation. We prefer to donate our money and time to privately-run organizations that have a much higher success rate in helping people rise up in life.
 
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yoo:
I honestly do not understand at all how we can weigh the opioid epidemic, climate change, taxes against the genocide of millions of unborn children.
Like can someone actually explain this to me.
Because how you pose it is not how it plays out in actual politics.

The choice is not between “stop millions of abortions” and those other things you mention. Electing pro-life politicians, even in massive numbers, may reduce the abortion rate, but it is not going to reduce the abortion rate to zero. So the actual choice presented is not in stopping millions of abortions, but instead stopping a much smaller number of abortions via regulation.

[snip for space]
Point being, we do our best NOT to support, and do what we can to defeat, those who have the power to write laws supporting the act.

THEN

do our best to educate those who are tempted to end innocent life, showing the truth of what they are doing

AND

show the consequences for one’s soul who

performs abortion,
receives abortion,
votes / supports abortion
 
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I believe Annie is only correct (maybe) if all the candidates are pro-choice though. Which is not true.
 
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steve-b:
It’s not just the individual politician it’s the party platform that REALLY determines the direction of the overall realities
I followed this advice and voted for Rauner (R) who ended up signing an abortion funding bill.

Personally I wish they’d do away with party platforms.
Interesting thought. In extension, can we do without political party’s?

While

Party platforms might be nonbinding documents, candidates and elected officials know that by going against their party’s platform, run the risk of alienating their party establishment and become more vulnerable to attacks from opponents…and let’s face it, for THEM, it’s all about getting re elected … right?

In one study, reported by Vox, Democratic and Republican lawmakers voted in line with their party’s platforms more than 80 percent of the time (based on an analysis of platforms and votes from1980 and 2004).

That said

while some politicians, might go rogue on a certain platform issue, it’s dangerous for THEM to do that, with their own party.

So

in an overall point, until something else takes it’s place, platforms are important to pay attention to.
 
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I do not think that is necessarily true.

Imagine the body for which the candidate is running is like the US Senate, and only 1/3 run each election. For thos election, the senators not up for election already contain a majority who will vote for anything promoting abortion or against anything denying abortion.

The candidates you can choose between are 1) someone very against certain things you consider very important… say he is running on dismantling Medicaid and Medicare. The race is very tight.

You know that the candidate who supports Medicaid and Medicare is pro-choice and the other is not, but you also know that the pro-choice candidate will not make any difference in the voting on the abortion issue and could make a big difference on the continuation of our caring for the poor.

In that case, one might morally vote for the one who supports abortion despite his position on abortion, because you feel the proportion of the bad he does wrt abortion is outweighed by the good he can do in another important, altho slightly less so, area.

My points here are 1) it is possible to morally vote for someone who is pro-choice, and 2) it is just not a good strategy to come out swinging and telling people they are committing mortal sin.
 
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