It seems as if the omniscience of G-d is constrained within the parameters of the will and purpose of man.
Heh, you misunderstood. Atheists in general, including you, decide NOT TO BELIEVE in hell, to relieve themselves of the possibility that they may be damned.I didn’t decide there is no Hell, any more than I didn’t decide there is no pink elephant floating in orbit around an as yet undiscovered planet drinking Jasmin tea
There is Divine Revelation. However, seeing as you don’t accept the divine authority of the Bible, (understandably so) I will not bother pushing this one down your throat.
I wasn’t talking about “accountability” in that sense. I was speaking of moral accountability in your dispositions and actions in things which only God can see. Your thoughts, desires, and will are known to Him. When a person decides not to believe in God, it is “freeing” them from having to think about being morally good in those things which nobody sees… but God.Let’s see now. I’m accountable for my actions to:
My husband.
My kids.
My mom.
My family.
My friends.
My employees.
My business associates.
My customers and clients.
The State.
Law enforcement.
IRS.
Strangers I meet.
And myself.
To name but a few.
Where you get the idea I have no accountability for my actions and that’s why I’m an atheist, I have no clue
Sarah x
What we want or don’t want as physical, mortal humans is an entirely different story from what we want and don’t want in a spiritual setting. As humans on earth, most of us are quite aware of the fact that once we die, we’re never coming back, and we’re kind of resigned to that. But when your will and intellect are essentially upgraded after death, I’m sure some new and better knowledge, capabilities, concepts, sensations, and overall abilities probably change the viewpoint of life in general pretty fast.
I’d say you’re close, but not right on the mark. On earth we experience pain when something bad or detrimental to us happens. It’s more or less a discomfort based on abnormal happenings to ourselves - a by-product. Similarly in a spiritual sense, pain is probably something a soul experiences the further it drives away from God. God being the source of all life, it is impossible for a soul to draw away from Him without experiencing such an abnormality, especially considering all people are made in the image and likeness of God Himself. If God’s likeness is in our nature, how can we possibly draw away from Him without suffering? We’re like Him, but we aren’t an ultimate source of contingency unto ourselves - we aren’t gods ourselves. We do have souls incapable of death, however. That being said, no matter how far one could get away from God, complete destruction would be impossible, but suffering would continue to grow as more distance is made.
It hasn’t. Hell is a very important topic when considering whether or not God can know all possibilities. If God can know all possibilites, then he knows that some people will go to hell when he creates them, and that demands some answers.
Good explanations.
Hi MB
I think the only way to escape God knowing that some people will end up in hell is to go down the open theist route where God does not know what will happen and cannot control what will happen. I think that’s a position that is difficult to reconcile with scripture, so we’re left having to accept that there must be good reason for God knowing and allowing the creation of people destined to hell. Maybe it’s a necessary cost of free will?
I see your point. I suppose the issue of (double) predestination and free will is indeed intertwined with the topic at hand. Thank you.
I can and I do
I’ve already proven your argument flawed and you haven’t addressed it.I can and I do
The point was I have no way to know the outcome for a child I give birth to. As I stated, if I knew the next child I conceived would spend eternity in the torments of hell, I would not conceive that child.
God does know, so it’s claimed, yet produces those souls anyways - souls He already knows before He makes them, so it’s claimed, that are destined for Hell.
That’s not a loving thing to do, and nothing will convince me it is.
So this God, on that basis, cannot be ‘‘all loving’’ as it’s claimed.
In my opinion of course.
A billion others disagree with me
Sarah x
Quoting from the same post:Why not?
I seem to be missing that part.
Sarah x
It would seem appropriate that God would create mankind in a way that all of mankind would be able to attain happiness and salvation - but that’s because He apparently did. What led to the separation of mankind from God was the act of man itself though - man who possesses a will independent of God, (though apparently still in need of close proximity to Him for the fact that He is Who/what we believe is the source of all love and all life. [Hence why God the Son came as both man and God in order to redeem humanity and to save what could be saved.])
It is obviously immoral for the individual to knowingly misuse his/her own life, but it also is immoral for the creator to bring the child into existence, unless he has some other plan or purpose for bringing him into existence.
I’ve already proven my point a valid one with the last post I made. It would do some justice for posters to keep up with the debate, unless they want to see me reiterate the whole thing over again so that they can complain about it and tell me I’m just saying the same things over and over again, tell me I’m wrong for no apparent reason, and then leave.
Hit the nail on the head!I’ve already proven my point a valid one with the last post I made. It would do some justice for posters to keep up with the debate, unless they want to see me reiterate the whole thing over again so that they can complain about it and tell me I’m just saying the same things over and over again, tell me I’m wrong for no apparent reason, and then leave.
That depends on what your point was. If your point was to show that human beings are responsible for where they end up in the afterlife, you argued that fairly well, but you didn’t even touch on why you think God isn’t responsible. The fact is, both the human being and God are responsible for where the person ends up. the person for making choices that will bring him or her closer to or further from God, and God for creating the person while knowing which path they’ll take.I’ve already proven my point a valid one with the last post I made. It would do some justice for posters to keep up with the debate, unless they want to see me reiterate the whole thing over again so that they can complain about it and tell me I’m just saying the same things over and over again, tell me I’m wrong for no apparent reason, and then leave.
The portion underlined in your quote carries no weight whatsoever, as it is exactly what I’ve addressed so far.
So far you’ve been arguing that if someone ends up in Hell, it’s pretty much that person’s own fault. That person is responsible for his/her own actions, and has the free will to choose joy or sorrow.
As I’ve said before, it seems to me that the responsibility is shared. Suppose a parent knows, with absolute certainty, that if his son takes the car out, the son will die in a horrible car wreck because he will be texting while driving. The son knows the hazards of this dangerous activity, and he has been warned against them plenty of times, So the wreck will be his own fault. However, that parent, since he has certain knowledge of what will happen to his son, is also partially responsible for his son’s death, since he lets his son take the car-- and not only that, but forces him to.