According to Catholicism, can G-d foresee all possibilities and potentialities of things that do not actually exist or happen?

[Aloysium]

my 2 cents:

God sits in eternity and knows everything about Himself and
His creation - everywhere, every time

He knows all about me, inside out;
He can therefore know what I would do given certain circumstances

He cannot know what He has not and will not create,
because it would never exist
it is nothing, there is nothing to know

if He knows it, doesn’t it mean He has created it?

the suggestion would be that He has an imagination that dreams up infinite scenarios which are never actualized - i don’t see the point - why not just create them and see?

 

[Aloysium]

btw, re: free will and God’s omniscience/omnipotence:

I believe the paradox is illustrated in Genesis 4:
3 Time passed and Cain brought some of the produce of the soil as an offering for Yahweh,
4 while Abel for his part brought the first-born of his flock and some of their fat as well. Yahweh looked with favour on Abel and his offering.
5 But he did not look with favour on Cain and his offering, and Cain was very angry and downcast.
6 Yahweh asked Cain, ‘Why are you angry and downcast?
7 If you are doing right, surely you ought to hold your head high! But if you are not doing right, Sin is crouching at the door hungry to get you. You can still master him.’
8 Cain said to his brother Abel, ‘Let us go out’; and while they were in the open country, Cain set on his brother Abel and killed him.

Why do you think He bothered to warn Cain?

 

[Neildown]

So far you’ve been arguing that if someone ends up in Hell, it’s pretty much that person’s own fault. That person is responsible for his/her own actions, and has the free will to choose joy or sorrow.

Understood. Now, in order to go any further, you’re going to have to give some reasons for this statement:

if man is responsible for his own actions God cannot be responsible for his going to hell.

How can you pin any responsibility on God when it’s the exercising of free will that basically makes the determination of heaven or hell? The only thing God is responsible for in relation to human salvation or damnation is that He gave mankind spiritual life and a physical one to help determine that spiritual life. What mankind chooses with that freedom isn’t correlated with God’s giving of that freedom insofar as moral culpability is concerned. Yes, we were given a means to damn or to save ourselves without being asked, but our choices are the only supreme factor in that issue - completely regardless of who made that possible. It’s already quite clear that God has gone out on a limb for us. He’s already said that He’s willing to accept us (or rather, willing to give Himself to us), but that can only be on the condition that we accept Him as well; otherwise there could be no mutual agreement.

As I’ve said before, it seems to me that the responsibility is shared. Suppose a parent knows, with absolute certainty, that if his son takes the car out, the son will die in a horrible car wreck because he will be texting while driving. The son knows the hazards of this dangerous activity, and he has been warned against them plenty of times, So the wreck will be his own fault. However, that parent, since he has certain knowledge of what will happen to his son, is also partially responsible for his son’s death, since he lets his son take the car-- and not only that, but forces him to.

The only persons God technically forced into existence were Adam and Eve or whoever the first humans were, and they were apparently conceived in righteousness as I’ve already explained. The rest of human conceptions would be entirely through the actions of human beings (with God creating the souls of said persons in conformation to our physical reality) who are incapable of foreseeing the future as God might. Though God knows the outcome of everything that is to unfold in our perception, He does permit evil and/or “misfortune in general” to happen in order to accommodate our freedom of will.

Similarly, God is partially responsible, after creating us, for where we eventually end up. he actively pulled us out of non-existence and has forced us to play in the game of life. We get no say in the matter. We may choose whether we win or lose, but we can’t choose not to play. And God made some of us play even though he *knew *we were going to lose! God is certainly at least partially responsible.

You’re taking it out of context with your analogy of life being a game, however. It’s not a battle of win or lose, it’s a battle of “do you want to go to heaven, or do you want to go to hell? And are you willing to work hard enough toward that goal?”

As I stated previously, our perception of life in general changes very drastically when going from a major physical state to a 100% spiritual state. Whether or not it is technically “fair” to be brought into existence at all I’ll simply have to leave to be resolved when I’m dead. Honestly though, I only see such a viewpoint as nothing more than just that… a viewpoint. If people want to believe that life isn’t worth living then they are free to do so, but it doesn’t change the reality that they can make of life what they want to - which is, again, part of our free will.

Besides, it isn’t just a matter of responsibility. As pure love, he wants the best for us. That means he’ll go over and above his responsibility to bring us to the best state possible. God isn’t just going to create us and let us go on our merry way to hell for the sake of free will itself-- or at least, I seriously doubt he would.

I’m not saying that God doesn’t make interventions, but He’s not going to hold a soul to heaven against it’s own will as far as I’m aware. The whole thing is, not all souls want heaven - some would still rather cast themselves off than come to terms with reality (almost like the people who think life isn’t worth living). Why do you think Lucifer became Satan? It was obvious he was disillusioned in thinking himself greater than God, yet he would not come to terms with the fact that God is and always has been the boss.

Maybe you have some reasons for why our free will alone is enough to justify a loving God creating souls that choose hell over heaven. Or some other reason why God isn’t responsible for our souls, I don’t know. but continuing to claim that humans are responsible isn’t going to cut it. We agree on that. I want to know why God isn’t.

Sorry, but you’re completely contradicting yourself with this whole thing.

“Just because humans are** completely** in control of their destination, God may still be somehow responsible for them going to hell,” is basically what you appear to be saying. But if men make the ultimate decision, completely regardless of the fact that God created men, where can God’s culpability in that equation be? There can’t be culpability on His part because the answer to heaven or hell is completely reliant on our decision. Christ already extended His love and His forgiveness to us through His death and institution of the Eucharist, the Church, etc., but it does no good for us unless we as individuals accept His offer.

 

[zro_x]

How can you pin any responsibility on God when it’s the exercising of free will that basically makes the determination of heaven or hell? The only thing God is responsible for in relation to human salvation or damnation is that He gave mankind spiritual life and a physical one to help determine that spiritual life. What mankind chooses with that freedom isn’t correlated with God’s giving of that freedom insofar as moral culpability is concerned. Yes, we were given a means to damn or to save ourselves without being asked, but our choices are the only supreme factor in that issue - completely regardless of who made that possible.

Not so! If you force somebody to make a choice, you are at least partially responsible for whatever choice that person makes. You made it possible and even necessary for the person to make the choice, and the consequences of that person’s actions–good or bad–could not have happened without your involvement. You would be responsible for the consequences, though only indirectly.

The only persons God technically forced into existence were Adam and Eve or whoever the first humans were, and they were apparently conceived in righteousness as I’ve already explained. The rest of human conceptions would be entirely through the actions of human beings (with God creating the souls of said persons in conformation to our physical reality) who are incapable of foreseeing the future as God might.

God takes an active role in the creation of every human being. He is the one who decides whether a particular act of intercourse will produce a baby, and exactly what soul is paired with that baby’s body. So God isn’t just sitting back and permissively letting humanity take it’s own course. He forces every human being into existence. At least, that’s my understanding.

You’re taking it out of context with your analogy of life being a game, however. It’s not a battle of win or lose, it’s a battle of “do you want to go to heaven, or do you want to go to hell? And are you willing to work hard enough toward that goal?”

Admittedly, that wasn’t the best analogy for what God does. Let me try a different one.
suppose you tell Johny that he is not to eat any of the cookies in the cookie jar. Before giving this command, Johny had no idea that there were any cookies. So, If the cookies are gone by dinner time, you are responsible, though not morally culpable, for the state of the jar, since you created a possibility where there was none before.

I’m not saying that God doesn’t make interventions, but He’s not going to hold a soul to heaven against it’s own will as far as I’m aware. The whole thing is, not all souls want heaven - some would still rather cast themselves off than come to terms with reality (almost like the people who think life isn’t worth living). Why do you think Lucifer became Satan? It was obvious he was disillusioned in thinking himself greater than God, yet he would not come to terms with the fact that God is and always has been the boss.

So the question–as always-- is “then why did God create lucifer?” You seem to think that Lucifer’s ability to excercise free will is reason enough for God to create him, but if you believe this, you’re going to have to give some argument for why you believe this is true.

“Just because humans are** completely** in control of their destination, God may still be somehow responsible for them going to hell,” is basically what you appear to be saying. But if men make the ultimate decision, completely regardless of the fact that God created men, where can God’s culpability in that equation be?

God isn’t morally* culpable *for the actions of the people he creates, but he is responsible for where they eventually end up. If some event happens because of your actions, you are responsible for that event. There are two beings that make hell possible.

1. the person who chooses to go there, and
2. the person–or in this case, three persons–who create the the person who chooses.

 

[Aloysium]

This is not true at all.
Someone who doesn’t believe in a specific deity or what that deity supposedly says doesn’t “choose” or “decide” not to believe. It’s not like opening up your closet in the morning and actively deciding not to wear the blue shirt.
Somewhere along the way, someone presents them with the idea of a God and all that comes with it…perhaps in Sunday school or in a church service or they read about it in a book like the bible…but none if it comes across as logical or believable to them.
A person can’t force themselves to believe in something. The reality of it has to make sense to them.
For an atheist, the stories in the Christian canon (and other religious canons) and the way the belief system is structured makes no sense and doesn’t ring true.

I assume you don’t believe in other deities and their doctrines because you don’t think they are true or real, right? You didn’t just “decide” not to believe in what they teach so that you wouldn’t have to worry about the damning consequences of not following their doctrines, as you say above about atheists?

.

.

Today’s atheist are basically as shallow as a television sitcom.
Living in triviality, using their God-given reason attacking their own fantasies as being unreal.
Sheltered meaningless lives built on illusions, sex, stupefacients, both mental and chemical.

At least the existentialist of former days knew what it meant to have a world without God, without purpose, without meaning
They knew what it meant to suffer for nothing
life: push the rock up the hill and have it roll right back - endless drudgery until it finally ends

What is love without God?
If it is not the Centre of all that is,
it is nothing: just another emotion

• as ridiculous and meaningful as passing wind

i am actually sick and tired of ppl saying they don’t believe in God
not asking personally here, but as a general question: What do you believe in?

I know that if one pursue truth, one will find Him.

 

[Neildown]

Not so! If you force somebody to make a choice, you are at least partially responsible for whatever choice that person makes. You made it possible and even necessary for the person to make the choice, and the consequences of that person’s actions–good or bad–could not have happened without your involvement. You would be responsible for the consequences, though only indirectly.

Of course God is responsible insofar as our existence, but that doesn’t amount to moral culpability - that part is what we take care of. Therefore, God is not morally responsible for what we choose despite the fact that He made that possible.

God takes an active role in the creation of every human being. He is the one who decides whether a particular act of intercourse will produce a baby, and exactly what soul is paired with that baby’s body.

I’m of the supposition that you maybe meant something else, but by the way you phrase it, you’re also suggesting here that God controls the sperm and eggs in the conjugal act, deciding whether or not a child is conceived… There isn’t anything in Church teaching or in the Bible to support such a conjectural statement.

My take is, a human life starts when a sperm unites with an egg and the forming of that union gives cause for the creation of a soul to inhabit the body of the developing child.

So God isn’t just sitting back and permissively letting humanity take it’s own course. He forces every human being into existence. At least, that’s my understanding.

Never said He sits back. I would never go to the lengths of saying that God forces people to go to heaven when they legitimately refuse to do so at every turn though. This is why I have so vehemently reiterated the importance of human will within the equation.

Admittedly, that wasn’t the best analogy for what God does. Let me try a different one.
suppose you tell Johny that he is not to eat any of the cookies in the cookie jar. Before giving this command, Johny had no idea that there were any cookies. So, If the cookies are gone by dinner time, you are responsible, though not morally culpable, for the state of the jar, since you created a possibility where there was none before.

With this I would agree. It must be born in mind, however, that in this minute (yet completely necessary) state of responsibility, there still isn’t any argument to go on in blaming God for people going to hell. Specifically for several reasons which I will list:

1. The presence of heaven, wherein a greater and more powerful alternative of salvation is present in contention with the presence of hell. In other words, the enabling of a choice between heaven and hell is more moral than it ever possibly could be immoral for the fact that heaven presents a greater reward than hell presents a punishment.
2. The eternal life given mankind, because whether or not we choose heaven or hell, we are still closer to God than “before we existed”. This would go hand in hand with the fact that life is considered more precious than anything in Catholic doctrine. That being said, even hell would be better than non-existence, even if that is unimaginable from our current physical perspective. It must be recalled that in the end it is the spiritual life that matters most in our religious doctrine (thus the deciding factor of whether or not hell is better than non-existence would have to be determined from a purely spiritual perspective) and our understanding of “being 100% spiritual” is severely lacking even with thousands of years of human experience.

So the question–as always-- is “then why did God create lucifer?” You seem to think that Lucifer’s ability to excercise free will is reason enough for God to create him, but if you believe this, you’re going to have to give some argument for why you believe this is true.

It is probably as easy to tell why God created Lucifer as it is to tell why you or I exist. That being said, I’ll leave it up to you to fill in the definition. All we know is that in order to repair our relationship with God, whom we need in order to continue living joyfully, we have to learn more about Him and follow His instructions, and we’re free to choose to do so or to reject that offer.

God isn’t morally* culpable *for the actions of the people he creates, but he is responsible for where they eventually end up. If some event happens because of your actions, you are responsible for that event. There are two beings that make hell possible.

1. the person who chooses to go there, and
2. the person–or in this case, three persons–who create the the person who chooses.

Refer back 2 posts.

 

[zro_x]

Of course God is responsible insofar as our existence, but that doesn’t amount to moral culpability - that part is what we take care of. Therefore, God is not morally responsible for what we choose despite the fact that He made that possible.

Right. Just to make sure we’re on the same page though, God is not morally responsible for our actions, but he is responsible for their consequences. If a person’s actions eventually result in hell, God is morally responsible for the fact that that person is in hell. If you tell Johny that there are cookies in the cookie jar , you are indirectly morally responsible for the consequences of Johny’s actions.

I’m of the supposition that you maybe meant something else, but by the way you phrase it, you’re also suggesting here that God controls the sperm and eggs in the conjugal act, deciding whether or not a child is conceived… There isn’t anything in Church teaching or in the Bible to support such a conjectural statement.

that’s exactly what I meant. God influences everything. he controls who wins the lottery, he controls the weather, he controls whether or not the sun will rise every day. The only things he does not decide are our actions. There is no such thing as god letting nature take its course. All physical happenings are orchestrated by god.

Never said He sits back. I would never go to the lengths of saying that God forces people to go to heaven when they legitimately refuse to do so at every turn though. This is why I have so vehemently reiterated the importance of human will within the equation.

I wasn’t speaking of forcing souls into heaven, but rather of forcing them into existence.

With this I would agree. It must be born in mind, however, that in this minute (yet completely necessary) state of responsibility, there still isn’t any argument to go on in blaming God for people going to hell.

agreed. I never intended to claim that God be blamed for his actions–only that he is responsible for them. I agree that he should not be blamed, for the reasons you posted. (or rather, the second reason. I have issues with the first one, but that belongs in a different thread.)

 

[dshix]

This is a perfect AAA forum thread which answers this question:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=5057

 

[Alberti_Devoveo]

.

Wow. How many atheists do you know, personally? To be able to say that they are basically shallow, trivial, drug addicts who have meaningless, purposeless lives?
Not sure how you define “today”, but…
Dr. Oliver Saks, Carl Sagan, Anton Chekov, E. M. Forster, Sir Noel Coward, Sir John Huston, Bizet, Bob Geldof, Prokofiev, Verdi, Tom Edison, Linus Pauling…these are people who have made great contributions to humans and our world through their work, friendships, families, and love…their lives are/were trivial?
(I can give a more “current” list if you want).

I find it disturbing that a person would make such a generalization.
No one’s life is “trivial”.
How can you profess a belief in God and at the same time, say people this God made have meaningless lives?
Really amazing.

.

Edison was not an atheist, he was at best a deist or at worst a pantheist.

 

[Neildown]

Right. Just to make sure we’re on the same page though, God is not morally responsible for our actions, but he is responsible for their consequences. If a person’s actions eventually result in hell, God is morally responsible for the fact that that person is in hell. If you tell Johny that there are cookies in the cookie jar , you are indirectly morally responsible for the consequences of Johny’s actions.

Must disagree slightly. His responsibility only extends as far as an individual soul makes it’s choice. Basically, God is responsible for the existence of a moral decision made on the part of an individual soul that He is also responsible for creating.

that’s exactly what I meant. God influences everything. he controls who wins the lottery, he controls the weather, he controls whether or not the sun will rise every day. The only things he does not decide are our actions. There is no such thing as god letting nature take its course. All physical happenings are orchestrated by god.

Does the Church declare this as doctrine? We know the functions of nature are in accordance with God’s will, but I don’t recall God literally controlling everything.

I wasn’t speaking of forcing souls into heaven, but rather of forcing them into existence.

In that case I’m really not sure. I’ve never heard it explained as Church doctrine that God literally controls all of that.

agreed. I never intended to claim that God be blamed for his actions–only that he is responsible for them. I agree that he should not be blamed, for the reasons you posted. (or rather, the second reason. I have issues with the first one, but that belongs in a different thread.)

I wasn’t very specific on the first one.

The first one ties in with the second one actually. Because life is so important and is a blessing in itself, hell cannot be regarded as a punishment as much as heaven is a reward, for the fact that even hell is progress in comparison with non-existence, even though damnation is essentially separation from God. So when a person is born into existence even hell is an improvement on nonexistence.

 

[Aloysium]

.

Wow. How many atheists do you know, personally? To be able to say that they are basically shallow, trivial, drug addicts who have meaningless, purposeless lives?
Not sure how you define “today”, but…
Dr. Oliver Saks, Carl Sagan, Anton Chekov, E. M. Forster, Sir Noel Coward, Sir John Huston, Bizet, Bob Geldof, Prokofiev, Verdi, Tom Edison, Linus Pauling…these are people who have made great contributions to humans and our world through their work, friendships, families, and love…their lives are/were trivial?
(I can give a more “current” list if you want).

I find it disturbing that a person would make such a generalization.
No one’s life is “trivial”.
How can you profess a belief in God and at the same time, say people this God made have meaningless lives?
Really amazing.

.

Obviously you have a sense that things are meaningful, that lives have purpose, and that one can make a contribution to one’s neighbour life.

The names you mention are of individuals who have made such contributions.

As you state, no one’s life is trivial and love is an important part of it. I would say that It is central.

Now I would ask:
How can one who professes a belief that there is no God say that people existence not a purely random phenomenon?
On what would the meaningfulness that you ascribe to life be based?
Why should one contribute to society?
What is Love?

 

[zro_x]

Must disagree slightly. His responsibility only extends as far as an individual soul makes it’s choice. Basically, God is responsible for the existence of a moral decision made on the part of an individual soul that He is also responsible for creating.

and, since the moral decision is would not be possible without God, niether would the consequences.

Does the Church declare this as doctrine? We know the functions of nature are in accordance with God’s will, but I don’t recall God literally controlling everything.

In that case I’m really not sure. I’ve never heard it explained as Church doctrine that God literally controls all of that.

It isn’t Church doctrine(at least as far as I know), it’s my own understanding of the dynamic between God and nature. Why wouldn’t God act this way? He has power, so he wields it in order to improve human lives and souls.

 

[Neildown]

and, since the moral decision is would not be possible without God, niether would the consequences.

If that’s the basic type of responsibility we’re talking about here then I think I agree.

It isn’t Church doctrine(at least as far as I know), it’s my own understanding of the dynamic between God and nature. Why wouldn’t God act this way? He has power, so he wields it in order to improve human lives and souls.

Nature isn’t exactly known for being just or merciful.

I believe God can and does alter certain things in nature directly when He wants to, but I don’t think He necessarily literally “controls” everything at all times so much as sets up a functioning system which He could utilize where wanted. To be honest, even I would find it kind of hard to believe that God kills random people through natural disasters. Yes, things like that happened in the OT, but those were all instances directed toward unjust antagonists. Not not mention what we call freak accidents. (A 3 yr old being crushed to death by a dislodged tombstone for instance.) That being said, I’m largely of the opinion that nature is generally a fairly impersonal force functioning based on laws made by, but not necessarily controlled at all times by God. If I’m wrong however, some clarification on the subject would be appreciated.

 

[zro_x]

If that’s the basic type of responsibility we’re talking about here then I think I agree.

Nature isn’t exactly known for being just or merciful.

I believe God can and does alter certain things in nature directly when He wants to, but I don’t think He necessarily literally “controls” everything at all times so much as sets up a functioning system which He could utilize where wanted. To be honest, even I would find it kind of hard to believe that God kills random people through natural disasters. Yes, things like that happened in the OT, but those were all instances directed toward unjust antagonists. Not not mention what we call freak accidents. (A 3 yr old being crushed to death by a dislodged tombstone for instance.) That being said, I’m largely of the opinion that nature is generally a fairly impersonal force functioning based on laws made by, but not necessarily controlled at all times by God. If I’m wrong however, some clarification on the subject would be appreciated.

This is a certainly a very interesting topic, but I worry that we’re getting a little too far off from the main point of the thread. It’d be interesting to discuss in another thread, though.

 

[Neildown]

This is a certainly a very interesting topic, but I worry that we’re getting a little too far off from the main point of the thread. It’d be interesting to discuss in another thread, though.

True. I suppose we’re done with this particular issue for now then - glad we were able to reach somewhat of a conclusion.

 

[zro_x]

True. I suppose we’re done with this particular issue for now then - glad we were able to reach somewhat of a conclusion.

me too.

 

[zro_x]

oh, hey! I just found a thread on that very topic!
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=758227

 

[mrajax]

I would rather never have existed, than to exist, and then go to a place of eternal torture (based on the testimony of the Saints who had visions of hell).

If God knows I’m going to Hell, and knew I was going to Hell before He created my soul, then it would have been a kindness for Him not to have created me.

It is a cruelty of indescribable magnitude, to deliberately create something you know before you even create it, is going to suffer for all eternity.

In my opinion.

It was a little joke as my CFO was on a split screen with me as I was typing

She’ll do whatever it takes - provided it’s moral, legal and ethically sound

Just like God - except He includes making souls He already knows are damned to Hell, if that will save a few others for Heaven.

Sarah x

Where do I even start? God does NOT deliberately create souls knowing they are going to hell but He creates souls knowing that they can choose to either follow Him or reject Him. He creates souls that may become great people but don’t really become great people because they choose not to, He creates souls thata re born in mangy enviroments but then become great people because they respond to His grace. So no, God didn’t create you or anyone here in this world with the intention of sending you to hell. Even Vladimir Lenin and Paul Pot could have been saved if they realized the error of their ways, repented and tried fixing their own messes. If people go to hell, t’s because they choose to: is it God’s fault that He didn’t prevent you from raping, killing or robbing someone? If He literally came down from heaven and told you to not do evil, can you sincerely say that you wouldn’t do evil anymore?

If you’re a militant atheist who absolutely rejects the possibility of God, how can you expect Him to bring you to heaven once you die? If you rejected Him during your life and you refused to study religion even though you literally have a mountain load of information called Google, how on earth can you blame Him for not revealing Himself to you? So what if He appeared to you whilst you were in the middle of trolling some religious forum, wouldn’t that be forcing you to do the stuff He wants you to do. God does not work that way.

So no, God predestines noone to hell. God doesn’t see the future, He knows it because He experiences the past, present and the future all at the same time so to Him, it’s never too late unless you die. Don’t call our God cruel either because He with the help of the Blessed Mother, the Saints and the Church changed a lot of people’s lives for the better and witohut His morals laws, we’d still be living in a world where revenge killing is seen as honorable.

 

[zro_x]

Where do I even start? God does NOT deliberately create souls knowing they are going to hell but He creates souls knowing that they can choose to either follow Him or reject Him. He creates souls that may become great people but don’t really become great people because they choose not to, He creates souls thata re born in mangy enviroments but then become great people because they respond to His grace. So no, God didn’t create you or anyone here in this world with the intention of sending you to hell. Even Vladimir Lenin and Paul Pot could have been saved if they realized the error of their ways, repented and tried fixing their own messes. If people go to hell, t’s because they choose to: is it God’s fault that He didn’t prevent you from raping, killing or robbing someone? If He literally came down from heaven and told you to not do evil, can you sincerely say that you wouldn’t do evil anymore?

As Neildown and I have discussed, since God knows whether or not a person will choose to reject God before he creates them, God does indeed deliberately create souls knowing that they will go to hell. He just doesn’t force or predestine anyone to go there.

 

[Love4All]

Right. Just to make sure we’re on the same page though, God is not morally responsible for our actions, but he is responsible for their consequences. If a person’s actions eventually result in hell, God is morally responsible for the fact that that person is in hell. If you tell Johny that there are cookies in the cookie jar , you are indirectly morally responsible for the consequences of Johny’s actions.

God is not morally responsible for any soul being in hell. If He were, He would be a monster! Moral responsibility is incurred by free will decisions, and God doesn’t have what we lesser beings think of as free will. God doesn’t decide between good and evil when He acts. God loves, and accepts our love in return. If we reject love, that is not God’s fault, nor His responsibility.

If you tell Johnny there are cookies in the cookies jar and also tell him not to take any, you are not either directly or indirectly responsible for Johnny’s act of disobedience. That is all on him. You are responsible to punish him with whatever punishment you already warned him about before he stole the cookies. So while it is your responsibility to carry out your warning, it is Johnny’s fault, and not yours, that he forced your hand.