ADL Calls On Politicians To Refrain From Using Holocaust Imagery

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Because it was an experience of a people - industrialized death, death as a production line brought about by one of the most civilized countries in the world ‘gone mad’. The Shoah was unique not because of the numbers but because of the whole way in which it was carried out - the programmed efficiency of a modern industrialized society.
It just wasn’t the Jews the Nazis went after. Tell me, why did the Nazis kill over 3 million Catholic Polish people? Thousands of them nuns, priests. I find it amazing how liberals will accuse Catholics of trivializing the holocaust when mentioning the names of St. Maximillian Kolbe, Father Delp and Edith Stein and cry bigot. They are most likely bigots themselves.
 
Because it was an experience of a people - industrialized death, death as a production line brought about by one of the most civilized countries in the world ‘gone mad’. The Shoah was unique not because of the numbers but because of the whole way in which it was carried out - the programmed efficiency of a modern industrialized society.

I wonder just why you feel it necessary to colonize this - I don’t feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of the Irish in ‘The Famine’ for example, neither do I feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of, say, the Armenians. I don’t find it necessary to say to somebody Irish “more people died in famines in China, India and the Ukraine so stop making fuss” or, to an Armenian “hey, look at Rwanda, you people want to pretend that what happened to you was worse than anybody else”.

In the end, we’re not going to agree, we’re not going to agree to disagree, we’re just going to carry on resenting one another - we’ve been at it for a couple of millennia so both sides have become quite good at it.
I am not saying that we need to “colonize” one holocaust over another, I am in fact saying the opposite. We need to recognize that a holocaust is a holocaust and there is not just one group in all of time that has suffered from this.

The only way we can make people see this is if we recognize the mere fact that holocausts has happened and is happening to more groups of people than just the Jewish nation. One of those groups being the unborn, our children, they are dying by the thousands and YES it is a holocaust, no matter what the ADL wants us to call it!
 
What I don’t understand is how is it that the name or title Holocaust can only be used by Jew’s? Have they bothered to look past their own nose to see that many many nations have been persecuted. What about the Holocaust of the Native Americans, or the Holocaust of Darfur, or the holocaust of Bosnia-Herzegovina, or the Holocaust of Rwanda, or the holocaust of Cambodia, or the holocaust of Turkey and so on and so on.
Where has the term Holocaust ever been used in the examples you gave except by you?
 
It just wasn’t the Jews the Nazis went after. Tell me, why did the Nazis kill over 3 million Catholic Polish people? Thousands of them nuns, priests. I find it amazing how liberals will accuse Catholics of trivializing the holocaust when mentioning the names of St. Maximillian Kolbe, Father Delp and Edith Stein and cry bigot. They are most likely bigots themselves.
1, Don’t make generalizations.
  1. The Poles, who did suffer those deaths, do not use the word Holocaust to refer to what they suffered.
 
Imagine that, Poles not using Hebrew or English words to describe something. I’m suppose they are doing something unexpected…like using Polish words.:rolleyes:
What??? The Poles don’t use the Polish word for “holocaust” to describe Christian losses in Poland. I’d presume that you’d know that.
 
Where has the term Holocaust ever been used in the examples you gave except by you?
Oh its not just me!
gotrain.com/dan/nanking1.htm

frontline.org.za/articles/holocaust_Rwanda_10y.htm

jeffweintraub.blogspot.com/2005/12/children-within-darfurs-holocaust-eric.html

eurojewcong.org/ejc/news.php?id_article=318

nahm.org/

just to name a few and there are alot more!

A Holocaust is a holocaust! No one group owns that name because so many have suffered other than the Jews.
 
I wonder just why you feel it necessary to colonize this - I don’t feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of the Irish in ‘The Famine’ for example, neither do I feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of, say, the Armenians. I don’t find it necessary to say to somebody Irish “more people died in famines in China, India and the Ukraine so stop making fuss” or, to an Armenian “hey, look at Rwanda, you people want to pretend that what happened to you was worse than anybody else”.
I totally agree and wonder why some have the need to want to appropriate the word for their own agenda.

You are right about the “don’t make a fuss” business and the minimizing of the Jewish experience. “Who are the Jews to have an exclusive right to the term?” “Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler did Jews” “Mao-Tse-Tung killed more Chinese than Hitler killed Jews” “Abortion is a greater ‘holocaust’ than was all WWII.” And on and on. “Why don’t the Jews just shut up and say nothing so that we can minimize their experience by using the term to refer to any occurrence of suffering in the world”?
In the end, we’re not going to agree, we’re not going to agree to disagree, we’re just going to carry on resenting one another - we’ve been at it for a couple of millennia so both sides have become quite good at it.
Sadly, exactly on point.
 
Oh its not just me!
gotrain.com/dan/nanking1.htm

frontline.org.za/articles/holocaust_Rwanda_10y.htm

jeffweintraub.blogspot.com/2005/12/children-within-darfurs-holocaust-eric.html

eurojewcong.org/ejc/news.php?id_article=318

nahm.org/

just to name a few and there are alot more!

A Holocaust is a holocaust! No one group owns that name because so many have suffered other than the Jews.
No, a holocaust is not a holocaust. All those events are tragedies, or horrors or genocides. The term “holocaust” was originally used to describe the Jewish tragedy and should remain as such. We ought to respect that use regardless if the use of the term has been abused by others

As Kaninchen so well put it, the usurpation of that term will feed the continuation of the millenia long resentment between Christians and Jews.
 
Because it was an experience of a people - industrialized death, death as a production line brought about by one of the most civilized countries in the world ‘gone mad’. The Shoah was unique not because of the numbers but because of the whole way in which it was carried out - the programmed efficiency of a modern industrialized society.

And how it this different than the 10 mil Ukranians, Kazahks and others who were systematically robbed of all their food and left to starve or deported to the Gulag by the state apparatus of the Soviet Union?

I wonder just why you feel it necessary to colonize this - I don’t feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of the Irish in ‘The Famine’ for example, neither do I feel it necessary to colonize or minimize the experience of, say, the Armenians. I don’t find it necessary to say to somebody Irish “more people died in famines in China, India and the Ukraine so stop making fuss” or, to an Armenian “hey, look at Rwanda, you people want to pretend that what happened to you was worse than anybody else”.

Have you ever heard an Irish person object to the use of the term famine for Ethiopia or Sudan?

I think not.

Jews should be expressing solidarity with other groups that have suffered Genocide.

The Jewish Holocaust was not the first Genocide (Armenians), not the largest by number (Ukranians), not the highest proportionate to population (Cambodia).

I had the privelege of taking a course on Genocide with Prof. Eric Goldhagen of Harvard Univ. (a survivor of both the German and Soviet death apparatus during WWII). He pointed out repeatedly that Genocide is a far ranging 20th Century phenomenon that has appeared in many places and cultures. It is not unique to any group. By making it seem unique to a specific situation, we increase the chance that it happens again.

God Bless
 
No, a holocaust is not a holocaust. All those events are tragedies, or horrors or genocides. The term “holocaust” was originally used to describe the Jewish tragedy and should remain as such. We ought to respect that use regardless if the use of the term has been abused by others

As Kaninchen so well put it, the usurpation of that term will feed the continuation of the millenia long resentment between Christians and Jews.
The definition of Holocaust is
The word, Holocaust, derives from Greek words, meaning complete destruction, usually by fire.
But for some reason in the 1950’s or so the Jewish people decided to coin this term and denie any other group to use it. Which is so bizarre. We are doing a huge disservice to all those who have suffered the horrors of a holocaust just to give honor to one group who also suffered the same horrors. By giving this term to one group alone we are allowing others to look past or to dismiss other like incidents simply because we don’t want to see it as the same when in actuality it is exactly the same.

It is just sad that one group can be so selfish to not look past their own hurt to help out another group.
 
I agree with Bilop, my personal view of the term holocaust is that Jews would want to express solidarity with others who had suffered genocide by extending the use of the term to those situations.

But I believe we also need to be sensitive to the viewpoint of Kaninchen, as the form of the Jewish holocaust was indeed unique.

If we do not, as Kaninchen stated in a previous post ~
In the end, we’re not going to agree, we’re not going to agree to disagree, we’re just going to carry on resenting one another - we’ve been at it for a couple of millennia so both sides have become quite good at it.
I have no resentment against Jews but I am absolutely sure others do, and the thinly disguised (sometimes very thinly) anti-Semitism expressed by some members who post to these fora are evidence, as is much of what we see in the world at large. We need to do things that reduce and eliminate resentment on both sides, not increase or preserve it. If that means reserving the use of the term holocaust to represent only one historical situation, then so be it.

I’m glad Kaninchen set us straight.
 
i agree people don’t own words (though they do fight over their meanings a lot) but this issue is unnecessarily divisive between jews and christians. out of charity why don’t we as christians (i’m addressing this to those of us who are) avoid the term “holocaust” and use the more universal “genocide” instead?
 
i agree people don’t own words (though they do fight over their meanings a lot) but this issue is unnecessarily divisive between jews and christians. out of charity why don’t we as christians (i’m addressing this to those of us who are) avoid the term “holocaust” and use the more universal “genocide” instead?
Well put!! Why antagonize with the remarks that the Jews don’t own the word, that the Jews have absolutely no business kwetching about the Catholics usurping the word, that the Jews should just shut the h*ll up, etc., etc.? Why feed divisiveness?What happened to Christian charity, indeed?

And, I do agree with MelanieAnne that there is some real, though subtle anti-semitism behind some remarks made about the Jews on some threads on the Forum.
 
i agree people don’t own words (though they do fight over their meanings a lot) but this issue is unnecessarily divisive between jews and christians. out of charity why don’t we as christians (i’m addressing this to those of us who are) avoid the term “holocaust” and use the more universal “genocide” instead?
Politically correct propaganda.
 
If we do not, as Kaninchen stated in a previous post ~

I have no resentment against Jews but I am absolutely sure others do, and the thinly disguised (sometimes very thinly) anti-Semitism expressed by some members who post to these fora are evidence, as is much of what we see in the world at large. We need to do things that reduce and eliminate resentment on both sides, not increase or preserve it. If that means reserving the use of the term holocaust to represent only one historical situation, then so be it.
We must not compromise truth. To tell people not to use the term holocaust when referring to abortion is the refusal to recognize abortion as a violation of human rights.
 
We must not compromise truth. To tell people not to use the term holocaust when referring to abortion is the refusal to recognize abortion as a violation of human rights.
Not at all. To tell people not to use the term Holocaust except when referring to the German murder campaign is to show respect for the Jews. No one used the term to refer to abortion except to draw an association between the **actual **Holocaust and the numbers of abortions. Before the early 70s, the word commonly used, meant only one thing - the Shoah.

Anti-abortionists would do better to use another word for the history of abortion deaths - perhaps The Horror or The Abomination. There are plenty of terms that can be used.

Why deliberately offend the Jews by usurping a term they consider as their own because of their unique experience (unique not in terms of numbers, but unique in that they were the special target of the Germans)?
 
I agree with Bilop, my personal view of the term holocaust is that Jews would want to express solidarity with others who had suffered genocide by extending the use of the term to those situations.
You may remember me saying that my family were German Jews and a few of them from that time are still alive. They still donate to charities too – do they donate to Israel? No they don’t. Every cent they donate goes to charities for refugees and victims of torture and they passed on their concerns – many of their children and grandchildren became active as advocates in those fields.

Still doesn’t mean that they or we wouldn’t prefer people to find other terms than ‘holocaust’.
 
You may remember me saying that my family were German Jews and a few of them from that time are still alive. They still donate to charities too – do they donate to Israel? No they don’t. Every cent they donate goes to charities for refugees and victims of torture and they passed on their concerns – many of their children and grandchildren became active as advocates in those fields.

Still doesn’t mean that they or we wouldn’t prefer people to find other terms than ‘holocaust’.
Gosh, I guess the rest of my post, the one you quoted a portion of, just didn’t count.

OH WELL.
 
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