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ASimpleSinner
Guest
Only one Roman Catholic diocese.
There are several (sadly not all) Eastern Catholic diocese in the US that do not allow them.
My bishop (+JOHN of Parma) does not allow them.
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There are several (sadly not all) Eastern Catholic diocese in the US that do not allow them.
My bishop (+JOHN of Parma) does not allow them.
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
My dad used to say (of wealthy persons who had accumulated wealth in less than admirable fashion…)
“ill-gotten gains are still, gains!”
In this case, when the permission was granted, why the permission was granted, or how we feel about the fact that permission was granted (I don’t like it at all, perspnally…) doesn’t change…
permission was granted.
I can’t say that it is definately on the way out, but I suspect the popularity of the practice has peaked. For good or for ill, I have noted how common it is becoming to see adult men serving, or no servers at all.
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fbl9
Guest
hi all i am not sur if this covers my whole diocese i know in my parish we have only two alter severs my son and daughter. my diocese is large covering i am guesing around 400sq miles or more. but the population is rather small…
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THurifer2
Guest
Under what authority do you make that statement.
When I was inducted into the St. John Berchmans society for Altar BOYS…we were told by the preist the very reason for having us altar BOYS was to introduce us to the possibility of the priesthood…So are you telling me you are more Catholic than the priest who told me that.?
We are treating it as an apprenticeship at my parish. In fact we have already made the announcemnet. So at my parish being an altar BOY is an apprenticeship…bet that just frosts ya.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Have you given up being civil and discussing topics for Lent?
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THurifer2
Guest
Will you answer the questions I asked?
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
No one here has denied that it can encourage vocations in some individuals. That is a far cry from turning it into an apprenticeship of any sort.
How about giving up personal attacks for Lent? Just a suggestion.
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THurifer2
Guest
Does lent begin at sundown?
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MrS
Guest
Assume that your statement is correct… for boys
Then it really must be a far far cry for girls.
Reminds me again of the glory days of Michael Jordon with the Chicago Bulls. All those young boys who “wanna be like Mike”.
The goal of altar boys serving should be the same… "I wanna be like Fr. … "
So let’s not forget the important part of the equation… the priest. A good solid priest WILL inspire servers to view their altar service as an apprenticeship.
And this is a far far far far cry from any promotion to religious life for girls.
That excuse or reason is worn out and useless.
.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Are you suggesting forcing young boys, some parishes as young as 4th grade, into a real kind of apprenticeship? Screen them for vocation at that age and get them into a specific training path so only those who would then go on to seminary will actually serve on the altar at mass (as any others, boy or girl would be a waste of time and effort)??
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MrS
Guest
By the way Eilish, you still avoid questions from other threads.
example:
Question: “Did God Die on the Cross?”
Your Answer: _____________________
Don’t know, don’t want to know, or don’t care. Your hit and run and circular (name removed by moderator)ut is an apprenticeship at best.
Please re-enter the discussion.
example:
Question: “Did God Die on the Cross?”
Your Answer: _____________________
Don’t know, don’t want to know, or don’t care. Your hit and run and circular (name removed by moderator)ut is an apprenticeship at best.
Please re-enter the discussion.
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MrS
Guest
huh:blush:
Agreed that some parents “force” their kids to serve. I think, IMHO, it is more girls now than boys. ---- perhaps a “wanna-be” complex.
But… if young men…even aged 10… REALLY knew what it is a priest does… we would probably have too many priests.
.
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Father_Tom
Guest
But…if young men…even aged 10…REALLY knew what a parish priest’s life is…inundated with the same petty bickering that goes on within this forum…we wouldn’t have ANY new priests. They couldn’t run away fast enough!
Perhaps a good dose of Catholic, Christian example, rather than nonsensical arguments over non-issues would be a more attractive alternative.
Altar servers do just that. SERVE at the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist. While a wonderful opportunity to experience Church life up close, altar service should not be used to pressure our young people, male or female, into Holy Orders.
Sadly, I have seen all too many who have received the Sacrement of Holy Orders, who have done so out of pressure in their growing up years. These people face an uphill battle, as they struggle with their continued service to our Church.
This is my first post on this forum, and perhaps my last. The examples of Catholicism I see on this forum are hardly consistient with the spirit of our Lord Jesus.
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johnnydigit
Guest
yikes i missed that one! sorry but that is a pretty vile thing to say, unless you don’t know what the Church and our great Popes are teaching which i think is the case. it’s ok you didn’t know, but please review some thoughts:
ROME, 3 FEB. 2004 (ZENIT).Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical Athenaeum.
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 03-07-2005
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 12-30-2005
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 12-06-2005
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 11-16-2005
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 06-08-2005
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 10-25-2005
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 10-15-2004
Answer by Fr. Robert J. Levis on 10-15-2004
%between%The Question of Altar Girls Revisited
Recent letter from Holy See clarifies earlier ruling
adoremus.org/0302Altargirls.html
Guidelines for Altar Server
usccb.org/liturgy/current/servers.shtml
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Welcome (though I can understand you might be having 2nd thoughts!!)
I am glad you brought up the some of these things in your post.
I am first generation Irish American with close ties to the family ‘beyond’. Thankfully mine seemed to be the last generation there where one was pushed to go to America and one was pushed to go into the religious life.
I also don’t think most people today have a clue what it really means to apprentice for something as consuming as religious life - it is not like the local electrical union apprenticeship.
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MrS
Guest
Hi and welcome to CAF
Inundated?? There are not many vocations that are not inundated.
If young people saw the struggles in marriage and how often and wearing, and overwhelming they can be… we wouldn’t have ANY newly weds
If young people saw the difficulties, the abuse, the treatment received by workers in many professions, those professions would not get ANY new workers.
If young people saw the sickness, the pain, the helplessness that doctor’s face every day… we would not have ANY new doctors.
same for teachers… policemen etc
You have missed a point… it is the rewards of the profession.
It is the healthy for the doctors,
It is the children and grandchildren, life itself, for the parents
It is the finished car or dress, or tool for the factory worker
And it is the salvation of souls for the good priest. When there are no vocations in a parish, it is not the pushy parent, or the “forced” young man… it is the work of the priest.
“I wanna be like Fr…” I wanna do what he does… baptise, confirm, wed, absolve, confect. It just doesn’t get any better than that. And they need our prayers probably more than anyone so that they, you, do not tire of your work.
Don’t encourage girls to do what the boys do. It is only an idult, not a norm.
God Bless you Father in your vocation,
.
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snhs
Guest
I think it may be worth looking at those who were Altar Servers prior to becoming Priests, Saints or even good Fathers. If history has shown us that it generates a few Saints I think its probably worth retaining it. Some of the earlier Popes also condemned the practice of woman having any such role. There is no way to know the full fruits of someone being an Altar Boy as the effect can last long after they, and even their distant descendants, have departed.
Are these official statistics? I think its highly misleading to say 95% of boys go into business while a majority of girls enter into service to the Church. Permanent Deacons, Sacristans, Cantors, EM, Lectors, Pass keepers and just about every other role you can think of are often fulfilled by males and I think there are probably just as many former Altar boys as Altar girls carrying them out.
If we reduce it to what the Church gets out of it try looking at it in the following way. If a Parish produced 3 vocations to the Priesthood over 10 years, with those vocations drying up after the introduction of girl altar servers, and over the next 5 years 3 of their altar girls go to the Convent was it worth it for the Church? I wouldn’t have said so as Nuns cannot carry out the duties of the Priest, they cannot give the Sacraments which are so important to the life of the faithful.
I’m relatively neutral on having Altar girls, they do just as well as the Altar Boys and generally we get along with them quite well. Having said that there are fewer Altar Boys starting now, although that may have more to do with recruitment methods.
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Brendan
Guest
I can give you a direct example.
Our parish uses only altar boys. Our pastor accepts boys as young as 7. Those boys carry candles in procession.
The next older boys 9-11, hold patens at Communion time.
The 11-13 year olds assist the priest in the reception of the gifts and handle the cruets and lavabo towel. Others in that category will ring the Sactus bells
the 14-16 year olds assist the priest at the altar, turnign the pages on the Sacramentary and placing and removing the pall over the chalice at the correct times.
The 16-19 year olds are the primary lectors.
Also, there is no ‘schedule’. If an altar boy is present, they serve Mass. There is also no adult moderator. The older boys train the younger ones, both in service, and what type of behavior is expected of a young man at Mass.
Out of those older boys, about a 1/3 go into the seminary. We have a parish of about 900 families, and have 6 men in the seminary right now. We have had 6 others ordained in the last 10 years.
We have 3 men at various stages to the Diaconate (including myself) and 4 women from our parish are currently noviate programs to Religious life.
None of those women were ever altar servers, yet we still have been well blessed with vocations to consecrated life.
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MrS
Guest
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