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fix
Guest
Where did that idea come from?
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duskyjewel
Guest
Pope John Paul II was hardly a woman-promoting radical. Yet the order officially allowing female altar servers came from him.
Pope John Paul II was strenuous in rooting out liturgical abuses. Someone here actually called female altar servers a liturgical abuse. Yet the order allowing girls to serve at the altar came from JP II.
Pope John Paul II was unafraid to risk his life and have the entire world hate him in order to speak the truth. And he allowed female altar servers.
The greatest Pope in the last century said it was good enough… I don’t get how people think they know better than him.
P.S. My SON is very excited to become an altar server when he can, because he watches my DAUGHTER being one! If he ends up discerning a priestly vocation, where should we lay the credit? Perhaps on God, where it belongs… I don’t believe any earthly thing is capable of inspiring a vocation. Supporting, yes. Causing, no.
Pope John Paul II was strenuous in rooting out liturgical abuses. Someone here actually called female altar servers a liturgical abuse. Yet the order allowing girls to serve at the altar came from JP II.
Pope John Paul II was unafraid to risk his life and have the entire world hate him in order to speak the truth. And he allowed female altar servers.
The greatest Pope in the last century said it was good enough… I don’t get how people think they know better than him.
P.S. My SON is very excited to become an altar server when he can, because he watches my DAUGHTER being one! If he ends up discerning a priestly vocation, where should we lay the credit? Perhaps on God, where it belongs… I don’t believe any earthly thing is capable of inspiring a vocation. Supporting, yes. Causing, no.
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Brendan
Guest
But note that he never allowed girls into the Vatican altar service, they remain, to this day, all boys.
He never used altar girls in his own private chapel ( and neither does Benedict)
John Paul also instituted a number of restrictions, so that no priest, even a visiting priest is required to use girls. No bishop, no pastor could require a priest to use girls. Do you give that restriction as much support as you do the indult itself, after all it too comes from John Paul.
If a visiting priest came in and send all the girls back to the pews for his Mass, would you recognize that he simply doing what John Paul did in his own Basillica, or would you be irked?
John Paul, through the CDWDS, also recommend that boys only be implemented whenever possible. Do you agree with that too?
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dessert
Guest
IMHO I think the boys and girls should be listed on a volunteer sheet and all requested to so a bit of service, and maybe get stars on something, some kind of recognition appreciation or thanks. Our girls and many boys are nervous about getting up on the platform and our priests some times recognizes their problem and we applaud them for their effort. It is hard to stand up in front of all like that a many adults don’t even want to. Our KofC help inspire the kids. The 8th grade are planning a trip so they helped serve at the breakfast that was going to support their trip, and believe me they got a lot of money donated. and then there was a spagetti dinner they helped serve at for their trip. This was not if you want, you are because every one in the Church is wanting to help. And the confrontation is from their own peers which is what is suppose to happen as they may go to Chicago for their trip. It’s easy to just hand kids money and too easy on them, better to do a little like car washes etc. The adults were standing by all the time to make sure it all goes ok. Serving doesn’t mean a handout.
I know my own adult peers keep me in check and this is what a real family does. So maybe these kids are seeing that they are the only ones and the same ones are being called upon , becuase their parents are on the board or like. I don’t blame the kids if they are a bit reluctant, and I see them up their almost falling asleep because there is a lot of sitting and waiting.
I think we would see a ot more involved if the servers had a special party or club type group thingy so that they could feel like they are actually someone not just doing it because father said etc. After all this is a pre-fice for more levels of involvement. It could be something open to 5th and 6th graders, and then advancement ribbons, colors, certificates etc. whatever one wanted to develop. I appologize if I have mis-spelled words in my post. Thanks
I know my own adult peers keep me in check and this is what a real family does. So maybe these kids are seeing that they are the only ones and the same ones are being called upon , becuase their parents are on the board or like. I don’t blame the kids if they are a bit reluctant, and I see them up their almost falling asleep because there is a lot of sitting and waiting.
I think we would see a ot more involved if the servers had a special party or club type group thingy so that they could feel like they are actually someone not just doing it because father said etc. After all this is a pre-fice for more levels of involvement. It could be something open to 5th and 6th graders, and then advancement ribbons, colors, certificates etc. whatever one wanted to develop. I appologize if I have mis-spelled words in my post. Thanks
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Father_Tom
Guest
Ah, my friend, if only it were so glamourous!
Therein lies the struggle for some, if not many. If we only did the things on your list above, our vocation would indeed, be very different.
We also listen to the endless parishoner complaints:
The Church was too warm
The Church was too cool
The sermon was too long
The sermon was too short
The altar server was wearing tennis shoes
The organist is awful
The organist is too loud
We have too many second collections
Why don’t we have a Communion rail?
Why do we have so many Eucharistic Ministers?
Why don’t we have enough Eucharistic Ministers?
Why are you allowing “altar girls”?
The hymnals are tattered and need to be replaced.
Why are you wearing street clothes at the Church office?
The altar boys look tawdry
The ushers should all be wearing suits and ties
The greeter is peculiar and makes me feel uncomfortable
The Mass schedule is inconvienient
The deacon mispronounces parishoners’ names during Prayers of the Faithful
The deacon touched my tongue when I received Holy Communion.
And, in reading this forum, I see most of the same types of complaints. Complaints that are uncharitable at best.
And, let’s not forget those delightful letters that get sent to the Bishop, detailing some or all of the above. I was asked several years ago, why I haven’t “made Bishop”.
My response? “Because I’m Lucky”.
A little charity and a sense of humor would go a long way. If we focus our energy on the ultimate goal, the little things won’t seem so annoying.
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Rosewith
Guest
It’s not an indult. Canon Law permits persons of either sex to serve at Mass.
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jmcrae
Guest
As well it should. Brendan’s parish notwithstanding, it’s hit or miss whether any of our Seminarians have ever been altar servers - it doesn’t seem to affect vocations one way or another.
Those that were altar servers, served with girls. It doesn’t seem to have interfered with their Vocation. We have 25 Seminarians, right now.
Serving at the altar is just that: service. It gives the individual the opportunity to give of his or her time and talent in service to the Church without any expectation of reward or pay; in other words, for the sheer joy of service. It’s one of very few opportunities to do so that are open to children - most things (working at the food bank or the homeless shelter, or teaching Catechism, or being a reader or EMHC, cooking Church suppers, or singing in the choir) require that one be at least 16 years old, or else be accompanied by a parent.
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ASimpleSinner
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Why are you so vitriolic and nasty to this poster?
I don’t like altar girls, but the matter of it being an apprenticeship or not seems to boil down to more pious opinion.
"So are you telling me you are more Catholic than the priest who told me that.? " How can the person possibly respond to that? It is exactly like asking someone “Are you still beating your wife?” There is no answer that will satisfy there.
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Brendan
Guest
Really? So if I queried the seminarians you mentioned, you don’t believe that a large majority of them would have been altar boys?
I take classes with most of the seminarians from Detroit ( and the Michigan province). I know that a large majority of them were altar boys. In fact, the only ones I know were not are converts.
Not every altar boy becomes a priest, but very few priests were not altar boys in their youth.
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dessert
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Oh come on Jim these are children! They don’t know what service is. In the old days priests had two priests to assist him in smaller parishes. Do we expect these children to take on adult roles? It is a very rare child of 10 years that will say yes I want to come all the time and serve. Some may only think it is a way out of class, that is normal remember when you were a kid?
Now there are some that are singing the Psalms during their Mass and serving their Mass so we expect them to do the daily, which in the old days was about 10 min. and two on friday and saturday and sunday AND the rest of the week. They are burning out and more than likely won’t want to come to Church at all after 8th grade.
I think you have to be realistic.
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jmcrae
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I don’t know.
In my own experience, about half the priests I know served on the altar when they were boys; the rest came to the priesthood through Bible studies, LifeTeen, Life in the Spirit, etc.
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jmcrae
Guest
I’m not sure what you think I said, but I am not saying that kids are taking on adult roles. Far from it. I am saying that altar serving is a role that is very suitable for children; one of the very few things that is.Oh come on Jim these are children! They don’t know what service is. In the old days priests had two priests to assist him in smaller parishes. Do we expect these children to take on adult roles? It is a very rare child of 10 years that will say yes I want to come all the time and serve. Some may only think it is a way out of class, that is normal remember when you were a kid?
Now there are some that are singing the Psalms during their Mass and serving their Mass so we expect them to do the daily, which in the old days was about 10 min. and two on friday and saturday and sunday AND the rest of the week. They are burning out and more than likely won’t want to come to Church at all after 8th grade.
The kids at our parish love to serve at the Altar; they consider it a very important, responsible thing that they can do to help out, and they are always helping each other learn how to do it correctly.
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duskyjewel
Guest
Wow…you seem to have a very low opinion of children. IME, give a child a reasonable challenge, and they will rise to it.
My altar-serving daughter (9) certainly knows what service is. I am sure part of her desire to be an altar server stems from it being a special role. But she desires a special role as part of her faith. She knows that servers are needed and wants to help fill that need. She and my other children (7, 5, and 3) have done service at the parish for over a year. As a family, we do hospitality ministry: setting up the hall, serving donuts, bagels, coffee, and juice, and cleaning up. My daughter also has a spirit of service at school. She helps struggling classmates willingly and without thought of anything besides friendship, and maybe thanks, in return. She helps her teacher when her teacher needs help and asks for volunteers. (Not always, but often…I don’t want to give a false picture of her. She’s definitely not perfect.
)I don’t really think my daughter is that special. I think, given the right environment, any child would be eager and willing to serve. They have to be taught to think it is worthy and important, and part of their Christian obligation. If that’s not happening, it’s hardly the child who is to blame. It’s not “adult” to want to serve, nor to understand what that means.
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Cristiano
Guest
I have seen my son so willing to serve that he almost burned out. He was doing two masses every weekend (plus school masses) and to him posture and being proper are so important that it takes so much energy from him. He understands what serving God is about and what being a role model to other kids is about. He is 11 yo and he has been serving for a few years.Oh come on Jim these are children! They don’t know what service is. In the old days priests had two priests to assist him in smaller parishes. Do we expect these children to take on adult roles? It is a very rare child of 10 years that will say yes I want to come all the time and serve. Some may only think it is a way out of class, that is normal remember when you were a kid?
Now there are some that are singing the Psalms during their Mass and serving their Mass so we expect them to do the daily, which in the old days was about 10 min. and two on friday and saturday and sunday AND the rest of the week. They are burning out and more than likely won’t want to come to Church at all after 8th grade.
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MrS
Guest
Far be it from me to tell a priest how to do his job.
The priests I have know over the last half century were all very different. But the ones who had the most peace of mind, the most contentment, the most comfort with their lives, where also the ones who seemed to put their priestly duties first and foremost…\
as you stated “Therein lies the struggle for some, if not many. If we only did the things on your list above, our vocation would indeed, be very different.”
So can you make it different. Delegate the heat, the organ volume, your choice of clothes… Not easy? Either is any other vocation where the individual has absorbed more than they should.
By the way…
Why don’t we have a Communion rail?
Why do we have so many Eucharistic Ministers?
Why don’t we have enough Eucharistic Ministers?
Why are you allowing “altar girls”?
The Mass schedule is inconvienient
I am curious why
[1] these questions are asked so often, and even more
[2] curious as to what your response might be. and
[3] why Adoration is not on the list.
I will include you in our prayers for priests. May you always have a good sense of humor… I really do believe it helps.
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Father_Tom
Guest
Unfortunately, over the last 4 decades, we as priests have had little to say regarding how much we could/should individually absorb.
Into the Seventies, I served out of the Diocesan office in various capacites. The smallest parishes each had a priest of their own, the larger parishes typically had three.
As the decade closed, I found myself with two parishes and a prison ministry, along with my Diocesan duties. “Abosorption” was not a choice, it was a neccessity.
I am now 72. A few months back, I spoke with the Bishop about retirement. I briefly felt like I was in politics when he said “Four more years, Thomas…Four more years…”
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MrS
Guest
All I can say is God Bless you for your service. I can only imagine how many are waiting for you in heaven to say thank you. That must be an awesome feeling of God’s grace, mercy, and majesty.
.
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jmcrae
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God bless you, Father. Just know that we love you.
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spellinggirl
Guest
I am an altar server, and I’m a girl! Woo-hoo! I’m actually the head server; I’ve been serving for almost 3 years.
The bishop makes the decision whether or not to allow girls to be altar servers in his diocese. Even if a bishop does give his permission, priests can still deny girls the right to serve.
I think the denial of female altar servers is unbelievably sexist for this day and age. My brother, who altar serves with me, agrees.
As a matter of fact, out of the 27 active servers at my parish, 14 are girls. I think they do a better job (on average) as the guys, who tend to fool around during Mass and not pay attention.
I encourage everyone who is able to be an altar server. It was the best thing I ever did.
ALTAR SERVERS ROCK!
The bishop makes the decision whether or not to allow girls to be altar servers in his diocese. Even if a bishop does give his permission, priests can still deny girls the right to serve.
I think the denial of female altar servers is unbelievably sexist for this day and age. My brother, who altar serves with me, agrees.
As a matter of fact, out of the 27 active servers at my parish, 14 are girls. I think they do a better job (on average) as the guys, who tend to fool around during Mass and not pay attention.
I encourage everyone who is able to be an altar server. It was the best thing I ever did.
ALTAR SERVERS ROCK!
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