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vern_humphrey
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Did you pick up on sacrifices at the Temple?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
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vern_humphrey
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Yep – and the Holy Family NEVER would sacrifice a living creature.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
Luke 2,22-24
22 8 When the days were completed for their purification 9 according to the law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, 23 just as it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male that opens the womb shall be consecrated to the Lord,” 24 and to offer the sacrifice of “a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons,” in accordance with the dictate in the law of the Lord.
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Ahimsa
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vern humphrey:
Would you support re-initiating animal sacrifices if the Temple were rebuilt?
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vern_humphrey
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First of all, Mount Moriah is owned by a Muslim trust, and houses sacred Muslim sites. How would the Temple be rebuilt without destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aksa mosque?
Secondly, the Jews would have to answer the question of animal sacrifices for themselves – it’s not up to us Catholics to dictate to them.
Finally, the Samaritans DO have animal sacrifices at their Temple at Mount Garazim – and I believe they have the right to have them.
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MCOLE
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What a hoot! I have been truley enjoying the posts! Especially the carrots! If I had to kill my own food, I think I would have to be vegetarian. BUT since I don’t - I’m not!
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vern_humphrey
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There’s nothing like a pleasant morning hunting squirrels – and they’re good eating, too.
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Ahimsa
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vern humphrey:
Sure, they have the right to sacrifice animals. Sacrificing animals is an age-old tradition. I was just curious whether you thought sacrificing animals was a good thing, if there were other ways of accomplishing the same goal.
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vern_humphrey
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Other ways of accomplishing what goal?
Is there some way of accomplishing a sacrifice of an animal that doesn’t involve animal sacrifice?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon5.gif
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BLB_Oregon
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Sorry, but… oh, for crying out loud. He gave directions for preparing the Passover supper, which would include a lamb. Whatever you may think about Jesus, he wasn’t one to split hairs, or have much patience with those who did.
"To what shall I compare this generation? It is like children who sit in the marketplaces and call to one another, ‘We played the flute for you, but you did not dance, we sang a dirge for you, but you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said, ‘He is possessed by a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they said, ‘Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is vindicated by her works. (Matt. 11:16-19)
The question is do we eat whatever we eat with awareness that we eat life, that we eat the pure and wonderous gift of God given daily, that we eat what not all have been blessed with? We have no cause to take pride at what we eat or don’t eat, or look down on anyone else for their scuples or lack thereof, or to make the food take precedence over the people we should love or God’s creation that we should treat with respect. If we eat what we eat because we are thoughtless or proud, we need to change. Ourselves, that is.
“Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor are we better off if we do. But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak.” (1 Cor. 8:-9) He was talking about eating meat sacrificed to idols, but the point is applicable. It is not wrong to eat meat, per se, but we have a responsibility not to recklessly scandalize those with scruples. Likewise, if we refrain from meat but do so while loading our plates with spiritual pride, it is a loss, not a gain, even to the animals.
Animals, like all of creation, exist to give glory to God, and that his will may be done. Nothing that works against that works for the animals.
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Ella
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So, does the ‘right’ to eat animals also include the ‘right’ to be cruel, extrordianily cruel I add, to these animals?
I do eat meat. I am saddened by the treatment of animals in the ‘meat’ industry. Factory farming is a horror.
KTM posted:
“Regarding your second point, the surest way to preserve a species is to encourage people to eat it. Are chickens, cows, pigs, geese, rabbits, clams, shrimp, etc. etc. in danger of going extinct? Of course not, because there is a market for them. Producers have an economic interest in raising as many of these animals as possible because people will buy them. So if you want to remove the Spotted Toegrabber from the engangered species list, fire up the grill and start cooking it. Before you know it, Spotted Toegrabber farms will sprout up all over the place. (*)”
Not true. IN FACT, factory farmed species of the animals we commonly eat are compromosed in many ways. Only certain breeds are bred. Unnatural conditions are used in their ‘care’. Turkeys, in a short time, have been confined to the White Broad-Breasted - their breasts are so large that they can’t mate but must be artificially inseminated. If a resistant virus or bacteria strikes these birds they - and the turkey industry - will be in a systemic plague. Lack of genetic variants in farm raised species makes for a serious vuneralbility in the case of disease.
Rather than ‘help’ a species, targeting it as a popular food item reduces it to a genetically engineered, factory farmed, mutant.
The living conditions of these animals are shameful. Justifiying cruelty to animals is, I believe, inherently UNCHRISTIAN. Do we think it’s funny torturing a pet dog or cat to death? Why then think it’s moral to burn the beak off of a chicken, house it in horrible conditions where it can’t move, lest it ‘toughen’ the meat, where it lives in its own feces? Even worse is the fur industry - fur which we do not need, which is a luxury, a rich man’s item.
I don’t buy it. Jesus didn’t eat animals that were tortured like that. The first job in the bible is that of a gardener. I believe eating meat is moral - but torturing animals is NEVER MORAL.
I do eat meat. I am saddened by the treatment of animals in the ‘meat’ industry. Factory farming is a horror.
KTM posted:
“Regarding your second point, the surest way to preserve a species is to encourage people to eat it. Are chickens, cows, pigs, geese, rabbits, clams, shrimp, etc. etc. in danger of going extinct? Of course not, because there is a market for them. Producers have an economic interest in raising as many of these animals as possible because people will buy them. So if you want to remove the Spotted Toegrabber from the engangered species list, fire up the grill and start cooking it. Before you know it, Spotted Toegrabber farms will sprout up all over the place. (*)”
Not true. IN FACT, factory farmed species of the animals we commonly eat are compromosed in many ways. Only certain breeds are bred. Unnatural conditions are used in their ‘care’. Turkeys, in a short time, have been confined to the White Broad-Breasted - their breasts are so large that they can’t mate but must be artificially inseminated. If a resistant virus or bacteria strikes these birds they - and the turkey industry - will be in a systemic plague. Lack of genetic variants in farm raised species makes for a serious vuneralbility in the case of disease.
Rather than ‘help’ a species, targeting it as a popular food item reduces it to a genetically engineered, factory farmed, mutant.
The living conditions of these animals are shameful. Justifiying cruelty to animals is, I believe, inherently UNCHRISTIAN. Do we think it’s funny torturing a pet dog or cat to death? Why then think it’s moral to burn the beak off of a chicken, house it in horrible conditions where it can’t move, lest it ‘toughen’ the meat, where it lives in its own feces? Even worse is the fur industry - fur which we do not need, which is a luxury, a rich man’s item.
I don’t buy it. Jesus didn’t eat animals that were tortured like that. The first job in the bible is that of a gardener. I believe eating meat is moral - but torturing animals is NEVER MORAL.
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Ella
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Please go to this website, if you’d like to learn some alternatives to the Factory Farming dilemma:
themeatrix.com/
themeatrix.com/
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Ella
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roymckenzie
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I love animals
My beef should be rare, my pork should be well done and my sushi should be raw.
As long as it is not overly cruel we should farm in the most efficient manor. I do support your right to pay way more for a chicken that has ran around the yard.
My beef should be rare, my pork should be well done and my sushi should be raw.
As long as it is not overly cruel we should farm in the most efficient manor. I do support your right to pay way more for a chicken that has ran around the yard.
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Ella
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“As long as it is not overly cruel we should farm in the most efficient manor.”
What does ‘overly cruel’ mean? That’s the problem. There is no standard definition. Money determines what is ‘overly cruel’. Antibiotics make up for gross lapses in care. We EAT these animals. Should we not be concerned about their health?
I’m tired of seeing biblical quotations justifying cruelty to animals. We weren’t eating these factory farmed animals before the 20th century. How is raising animals in unhealthy conditions, making for healthy food?
What does ‘overly cruel’ mean? That’s the problem. There is no standard definition. Money determines what is ‘overly cruel’. Antibiotics make up for gross lapses in care. We EAT these animals. Should we not be concerned about their health?
I’m tired of seeing biblical quotations justifying cruelty to animals. We weren’t eating these factory farmed animals before the 20th century. How is raising animals in unhealthy conditions, making for healthy food?
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vern_humphrey
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Ella said:
When and where did you personally see all these abuses you talk about?
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Ella
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“When and where did you personally see all these abuses you talk about?”
I’ve been in a chicken house. Have you?
I’m no PETA fanatic. But have you watched this?
petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=furfarm
But don’t believe me. Investigate for yourself. It’s not like it’s a secret how factory farms operate.
I’ve been in a chicken house. Have you?
I’m no PETA fanatic. But have you watched this?
petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=furfarm
But don’t believe me. Investigate for yourself. It’s not like it’s a secret how factory farms operate.
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vern_humphrey
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Ella said:
My parents raised chickens – a fairly large operation. When I was at home, we raised cattle (we ran about 240 AMU). Later, they sold some land and built some large chicken houses.
Roughly on a par with saying, “I’m no anti-Bush fanatic, but have you seen Farenheit 9/11?”
While we’re tossing around URLs, try consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/1471
**PETA: Proud To Support Terror
**“PETA doesn’t let political correctness get in the way of a good ad campaign,” reportsThe Virginian-Pilot, but now, consumer freedom advocates are using the animal rights fringe group’s own words and actions in response. “There is even a push to revoke PETA’s tax-exempt status because of a contribution it made to” the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).
At a congressional hearing in February, The Virginian-Pilot continues, “an FBI official testified that ‘special-interest extremism,’ including actions by animal-rights activists, has now become ‘the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country.’ James Jarboe, head of the FBI’s Domestic Terrorism Section, testified that the Earth Liberation Front and its sister organization, the Animal Liberation Front, had committed more than 600 criminal acts, causing more than $43 million in damage, since 1996.”
ELF has been called “the largest and most active U.S.-based terrorist group” by the FBI, and along with ALF commits arson, sets off time bombs and incendiary devices, destroys research facilities, runs online eco-terror “training camps,” and much more.
PETA gave ELF $1,500 to "support their program activities." Says congressional staffer Joshua Penry: "Remarkably, [PETA is] proud of the fact that they’ve given to ELF. They’re either terribly
I currently live on a farm. My neighbors have large scale chicken houses. I frequently help out. I also help with the cattle.
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Ella
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"Roughly on a par with saying, “I’m no anti-Bush fanatic, but have you seen Farenheit 9/11?”
In what way? How exactly is that on par? Please be specific.
In what way? How exactly is that on par? Please be specific.
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vern_humphrey
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Ella said:
I just edited my previous post – see above.
You’re citing an organization that supports domestic terrorism, and is known to use widely distorted and falsified propaganda.
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