Annoying friend

[Katie1723]

Get an answering machine to record her calls to prove if necessary that she is harassing you. And don’t answer the door. No where is it said that you have to answer either the phone or the door. She is controlling you and some one can only control you if you allow them.
~ Kathy ~

 

[mercygate]

Giannawannabe:

Oh, Ana, I hate to give you my opinion on this, but I really feel the need to. You may want to really, really think over whether you want to put your thoughts into writing. This could be used against you somehow. I know that sounds paranoid, but I have had it happen to me, and I absolutely NEVER leave messages on the phone or in writing. It’s asking for trouble, especially when dealing with a person like the one you describe here. Just think on it a little, okay?

Agreed! Do not put anything into writing unless you have it cleared by an attorney. The smallest thing can be used against you.

Honest: Turning her away when she comes is the best thing for now: that, and, as another poster suggested, saving her phone messages.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Ana:

I could care less how many times she reads the letter, as long as it doesn’t involve me answering my door or phone to her. That sounds mean doesn’t it?

This isn’t the first time someone suggested role playing, might be worth some thought. The only problem is she always agrees with me, then proceeds with the same behavior.

I only meant that she would be more likely to obsess on you if you gave her an object or a dramatic interaction to obsess with. The idea is to extinguish the behavior as quickly as possible, and as painlessly as possible for all involved… which means ending the payoff she’s getting for her bad behavior.

I really would find a professional and role-play with them. Once you’ve used your “harsh” language on them and settled on something that they think is most likely to be successful, you’ll have the confidence to do it, and without feeling guilty. It isn’t going to work the first time, so you need to trust whatever method you choose enough that you will stick with it long enough for it to work.

The professionals can correct me if I’m wrong on this, but this isn’t going to end easily. She has won you over so many times that it will take many, many interactions, all consistently free of payoff for her, before she is convinced that her behavior will not be tolerated. No socializing, as little as possible for her to feel sorry for herself about, as little drama as possible. She has to get the fact that the trip over to your place is going to be a total non-event, a waste of her time.

“That is all there is to it”… you will consult with somebody who knows how borderline personalities work, won’t you? This isn’t rudeness. It sounds more like mental illness. I have to believe that this lady is out of your league.

 

[Ana]

Thank you all for your continuing (name removed by moderator)ut, advice and personal experiences. I did not send her “the letter.” But I am really not too concerned about her telling anyone anything, because we don’t share anyone in common, she lives the next town over. And all of my friends and family can’t stand her. I used to try to help her “fit in” with some of my circle of friends, but my friends were not receptive. (There is a vibe about her that puts people off, like a desperation or over eagerness.)

But it REALLY was therapeutic writing it.

I understand why everyone is saying, just don’t answer the door etc. My problem is that I think SOMETHING needs to be communicated to her first, and then conclude and enforce what was said by not opening the door, phone etc.

I feel like by just cutting her off, I am skipping the important part of letting her know WHY this change is occurring. That’s why I thought a letter would be useful.

So, I guess I could just tell her, but I hate the thought of looking at her while I do it. She has a constant “beaten down” look about her that makes you feel like you are just one more person in a in a long line of a lifetime of people rejecting her.

The funny thing is, I haven’t heard from her in four days, which is VERY UNUSUAL. I’m thinking maybe she has sensed that I have finally had enough. I still intend to address this, but I hate to break the silence … it is so nice and peaceful around here…

God bless.

 

[Ana]

BLB_Oregon:

…which means ending the payoff she’s getting for her bad behavior.

BLB_Oregon:

it will take many, many interactions, all consistently free of payoff for her,

BLB_Oregon:

as little drama as possible. She has to get the fact that the trip over to your place is going to be a total non-event, a waste of her time.

This makes ALOT of sense.

 

[netmilsmom]

Ana:

But it REALLY was therapeutic writing it.

I understand why everyone is saying, just don’t answer the door etc. My problem is that I think SOMETHING needs to be communicated to her first, and then conclude and enforce what was said by not opening the door, phone etc.

I feel like by just cutting her off, I am skipping the important part of letting her know WHY this change is occurring. That’s why I thought a letter would be useful.

So, I guess I could just tell her, but I hate the thought of looking at her while I do it. She has a constant “beaten down” look about her that makes you feel like you are just one more person in a in a long line of a lifetime of people rejecting her.

The funny thing is, I haven’t heard from her in four days, which is VERY UNUSUAL. I’m thinking maybe she has sensed that I have finally had enough. I still intend to address this, but I hate to break the silence … it is so nice and peaceful around here…

God bless.

She will be back.
I have a neighbor who has a child with special needs and an older girl who is mean and undisciplined. After this woman would do what you are talking about, I finally told her that we cannot get together unless she called AND got me on the phone. Not her child (who at the time was eight and calling for my five year old who was not allowed on the phone) but her. No stopping by because my car was there. No dropping in at 8:30 at night, nothing.

After taking years of garbage from this woman, (calling me stupid, yelling at my daughters and telling me I should spank them), I can tell you that although I’m sure I hurt her feelings, our lives are so much better.

No one should make you hide or be uncomfortable. You and your children deserve more.

 

[Hawthorne]

There are phones that you can program to ring certain ways for certain callers. They even let you designate “no ring” for a number, so that the phone doesn’t ring whent that number calls. It has helped us with a relative that calls to tell us every little thing several times a day. We just call her back when we have time/and mental health to do so. Of course, sometimes her phone is out of minutes and she calls from someone elses phone and it rings. Lately we just don’t answer calls from unrecognized numbers and collect the messages afterwards.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, but we will not have non stop calls interrupt family life.

 

[farmbabe1]

This reminds me of a JW who always seemed to know when I was home. I didn’t want to be rude either but with a limited amount of time home (it always seemed to be when I was home for lunch), I didn’t want to spend it talking to her. I closed my curtains, didn’t answer the door, but was still stressed that she would show up, and she did. I resented the fact that I felt taken hostage in my own home. When I finally gathered up the courage to tell her not to come back, I felt SOOO much better. This “friend” of yours has not “gotten” the hints, so I wouldn’t worry that she would find you rude; she’ll more likely be mad than hurt, but soon will find someone else to latch onto and drain. Be strong and don’t give in to her attempts at manipulating you back into a relationship.

I recall a tidbit of information from a Psych 110 class: If a rat is pressing on a lever and gets rewarded with food each time he presses, he’ll keep pressing it at a consistent rate (i.e., you have been rewarding her lever-pressing); but when the reward is withdrawn and not given after the lever-pressing, the rate of lever-pressing will increase exponentially in an effort to make the reward “come back”. After not getting rewarded at all after a period of time, he’ll eventually stop pressing…My point in all this??? When (not if ) you tell her to stop coming over/calling/etc., be prepared for her behavior to increase in frequency and intensity. Don’t give in and don’t “reward” her by any means…be consistent, firm, and strong. Be a broken record and tell her the same thing every time (“I can’t continue our friendship. You need to stop calling me and coming over. Goodbye.” Click.) No other explanation necessary because you’ve already tried to explain to her before. Eventually after not getting “rewarded”, her “lever-pressing” will stop and she’ll be on to someone else. As others have said, I wouldn’t worry about her feelings; your responsibility is to your family.

My prayers and sympathy to you. You will feel SOO much better after you shut the door on this one. Be strong; don’t reward the lab rat and she’ll stop the lever-pressing!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Ana:

But it REALLY was therapeutic writing it.

Yes, it gives you a chance to “sneeze” out those things that you’ve been holding back from telling her. I think angry letters written and immediately destroyed have been good therapy for me on several occasions.

I understand why everyone is saying, just don’t answer the door etc. My problem is that I think SOMETHING needs to be communicated to her first, and then conclude and enforce what was said by not opening the door, phone etc.

Depends on what you mean by “need.” This is somewhere between love and war where there is a primary mission of getting her to quit interfering with your life. It is certainly polite to tell her up front but that can IMO be considered a much desired but still secondary goal. The reason: if you spend too much time planning that, then she still has a grip on you. You don’t want to be mean, but you may want to determine whether you want this severance to linger or be sudden.

So, I guess I could just tell her, but I hate the thought of looking at her while I do it. She has a constant “beaten down” look about her that makes you feel like you are just one more person in a in a long line of a lifetime of people rejecting her.

The funny thing is, I haven’t heard from her in four days, which is VERY UNUSUAL. I’m thinking maybe she has sensed that I have finally had enough. I still intend to address this, but I hate to break the silence … it is so nice and peaceful around here…

God bless.

Maybe the Holy Spirit has given you this little sabbatical to get your thoughts together. Maybe by the time you are “forced” to speak directly to her, your anxiety will be reduced even further.

Alan

 

[Ana]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I can tell you that although I’m sure I hurt her feelings, our lives are so much better.

No one should make you hide or be uncomfortable. You and your children deserve more.

Thank you, I agree!

 

[Ana]

Hawthorne:

There are phones that you can program to ring certain ways for certain callers. They even let you designate “no ring” for a number, so that the phone doesn’t ring whent that number calls.

I didn’t know that> I mean I knew you could for cell phones, but can you do it for house phones too? Although I do not intend on continuing a relationship with this individual, it could come in handy for some others that call too much.

 

[Ana]

farmbabe1:

My prayers and sympathy to you. You will feel SOO much better after you shut the door on this one. Be strong; don’t reward the lab rat and she’ll stop the lever-pressing!

Thank you that analogy was VERY helpful. Very … very … helpful.

She has already started trying to manipulate me again. But I am determined to not “give in.”

 

[Ana]

AlanFromWichita:

Yes, it gives you a chance to “sneeze” out those things that you’ve been holding back from telling her. I think angry letters written and immediately destroyed have been good therapy for me on several occasions.

Yes, my fireplace has been home to many of these.

AlanFromWichita:

Depends on what you mean by “need.” This is somewhere between love and war where there is a primary mission of getting her to quit interfering with your life. It is certainly polite to tell her up front but that can IMO be considered a much desired but still secondary goal. The reason: if you spend too much time planning that, then she still has a grip on you. You don’t want to be mean, but you may want to determine whether you want this severance to linger or be sudden.

You’re absolutely right. For that reason and some other good ones given by other posters, I have decided NOT to give her the letter. I just feel that I have invested ENOUGH time in the relationship. If I give her the letter, she may try to use it to respond point by point and honestly, I don’t even feel like going that in depth with her anymore.

AlanFromWichita:

Maybe the Holy Spirit has given you this little sabbatical to get your thoughts together. Maybe by the time you are “forced” to speak directly to her, your anxiety will be reduced even further. Alan

This is a good way to look at it. At first it was making me more anxious, … like a constant waiting … but this perspective makes it more beneficial.

 

[seabird3579]

Ana:

I spent the first couple years offering up my suffering and attempting to be hospitable … but my vocation is not to her … it is to my family and she is hindering me!! If you have read this far and have any advice, I would really appreciate it.

well, I confess, I can only think of “non-christian” things to do, but have you considered visiting her with three of your small hyper-active dogs?..Oh, that’s right you don’t have any. Well, I would rent some. Leave your children with the hubby, they won’t want to witness the outcome…But bring a video camera if you could.
And, don’t forget to have fun!

 

[Ana]

An update :

I received a card from her in the mail today. It was full of empty flattery, how she thanks God for me and I am her very best and dearest friend, and how she knows it was God’s will that we be friends … blah … blah …

The last time she was here, I was so fed up with her, I did tell her (again) that her neediness was suffocating, so I think she senses what is going on and this is her way of trying to “hold on.”

She did refer to our conversation, by saying how i am always truthful and when she got home, she “released some memories”, and thanked me for it.

Anyway, there was no mention of how she was going to change her behavior, an apology for imposing, or any reassurance that things would be different in the future.

Just some baloney of how “great” I am, and how my honesty “helped” her.

Once again … narcissism at it’s best.

I have just chosen not to respond. When she calls or stops by, I will just tell her that I feel I have invested all I want to in this friendship, and it’s time we go our seperate ways. Whatever her response is … I will just say, “My mind is made up. Good-bye,” (close door, hang up phone.)

 

[Ana]

seabird3579:

well, I confess, I can only think of “non-christian” things to do, but have you considered visiting her with three of your small hyper-active dogs?..Oh, that’s right you don’t have any. Well, I would rent some. Leave your children with the hubby, they won’t want to witness the outcome…But bring a video camera if you could.
And, don’t forget to have fun!

Now that’s a good idea!!

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

Hawthorne:

Lately we just don’t answer calls from unrecognized numbers and collect the messages afterwards.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, but we will not have non stop calls interrupt family life.

Doesn’t sound harsh at all to me!
Sounds like a nice quiet, relatively hassel free life.

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We’re worse than you even. We have a phone with special ring tones + “privacy manager” + NO voice mail or answering machine + no cell phones.

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The ring tones let me know if it’s from priority people, like dh.

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The privacy manager is a service through the phone company that re-routes calls where the name/number doesn’t come through on the caller id. If the name/number doesn’t show, instead of my phone ringing, they caller gets a msg saying this phone number does not accept unidentified callers and please press 1 to state your name or 2 to disconnect. If they state their name, my phone rings and I get a msg saying __ is calling and do I
**a.) want to accept the call, **
b.) ignore the call in which case it just rings on their end until they hang up,
c.) inform the caller that you do not accept solicitations & to be removed from their list
d.) send to voice mail (which I dont’t have or want to get)

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We choose to not keep cell phones either. Although we are considering those 2-way things just for dh and I.

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**For those who say, “But what in an emergency!?” (As though the world was in a state of near collapse before the nagging/hassleing phone starting following people everywhere. lol) All I can say is that not once has bad news ever failed to find me in a fairly timely manner. **

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I get flack from people all the time. “I tried calling you, but no one answered.” Yeah. So what? I’m not on-call or on-demand for anyone other than God, dh, and dc. If it’s important or a true emergency - they’ll call again. If it’s not, then why should I have to be hasseled with it at the resturant, in the bathroom, at the park, in the car, while changing a diaper, and everywhere else???

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**Okay. I’m off my soapbox now. **

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Ana:

She did refer to our conversation, by saying how i am always truthful and when she got home, she “released some memories”, and thanked me for it.

This is encouraging. To me, coming from a person who is mentally ill, I’m tempted to take that as she has made some personal breakthrough while thinking through things you have said. Keep in mind that she just may be obsessing over this whole thing even more than you. She knows you are valuable, and at least for a moment her conscious mind understands that she’s on the verge of putting you off.

Of course we don’t know exactly, but “released some memories” sounds to me like she probably began to see some sort of pattern (perhaps with you in earlier days, perhaps with others in her own background) that helps explain things, so that things may make sense.

Anyway, there was no mention of how she was going to change her behavior, an apology for imposing, or any reassurance that things would be different in the future.

That is interesting, but if she is truly focused on what SHE thinks is a life of stewardship, she may get over past hurts and move on to trying to understand what to do now. Also it sounds like she has you on a pedestal, and may not realize that you are a vulnerable human being just like her. If that’s the case, she may honestly think that you are so “together” that she can’t even imagine little ol’ her was actually able to be that significant a factor in your life to the extent that she was able to screw it up that much.

Just some baloney of how “great” I am, and how my honesty “helped” her.

Once again … narcissism at it’s best.

I have just chosen not to respond. When she calls or stops by, I will just tell her that I feel I have invested all I want to in this friendship, and it’s time we go our seperate ways. Whatever her response is … I will just say, “My mind is made up. Good-bye,” (close door, hang up phone.)

Wow, that’s quite a difference from how you wrote before. In the future if you decide there is room for a relationship, you can always go back and contact her or let her through if she still checks back. At this time, she just is too much. Going “complete” this way does preserve the majority of your time and keep you out of the agony and stalemate of indecision.

Speaking of “released a few memories,” I found out something very interesting a couple weeks ago about my longest-time friend in Wichita. We’ve been close friends since nearly 1981, the year I moved here and we were in the same apartment building. We spent days and nights together, riding bicycles and skating around town, enthusiastic discussions on every topic from his profession (movie projecting) to mine (electrical engineering) to philosophy. When he got married (I played piano at his wedding) and moved to the other side of town I kind of lost frequent contact with him, and we only started seeeing each other again regularly just in the past few months.

What I didn’t know, is that he really liked me but I was so full of energy and literally no concept of how to slow down (this was wayyy before I started into contemplative prayer) that his mother – whom I consider sweet and wise – actually advised him to get away from me because I was literally wearing him down. I had full time to give to the relationship and his priorities had changed. Now, after almost 20 years, we are getting back together and I have grown to understand both boundaries and energy levels in myself and other people. It had absolutely never occurred to me that Bob would have ever felt the need to discuss my relationship with him, with a third party – him being all “together” and stuff which I always saw as a counter to my slightly nerdly-look on the world where I was out to conquer it.

Alan

 

[Ana]

AlanFromWichita:

This is encouraging. To me, coming from a person who is mentally ill, I’m tempted to take that as she has made some personal breakthrough while thinking through things you have said. Keep in mind that she just may be obsessing over this whole thing even more than you. She knows you are valuable, and at least for a moment her conscious mind understands that she’s on the verge of putting you off.

Yes, it is tempting. But the funny thing was, even before I opened the card, I “knew” what it would say. I knew it would be a “reminder” that God preordained our friendship, as an attempt to hold on to what she mght sense she is losing. I think she tries to use my desire to please God as an attempt to keep me in her life.“YOU may think this friendship is not a good thing, but you must remember your OBLIGATION to me as a Christian” type of pressure. I may be wrong, but I’ve got a pretty good “bull meter” and my instinct is telling me this is the case. It’s like she is playing a “GOD” card, and it makes me feel resentful and suffocated.

AlanFromWichita:

Of course we don’t know exactly, but “released some memories” sounds to me like she probably began to see some sort of pattern (perhaps with you in earlier days, perhaps with others in her own background) that helps explain things, so that things may make sense.

She’s ALWAYS releasing memories. This is a standard part of her vocabulary.

AlanFromWichita:

That is interesting, but if she is truly focused on what SHE thinks is a life of stewardship, she may get over past hurts and move on to trying to understand what to do now. Also it sounds like she has you on a pedestal, and may not realize that you are a vulnerable human being just like her. If that’s the case, she may honestly think that you are so “together” that she can’t even imagine little ol’ her was actually able to be that significant a factor in your life to the extent that she was able to screw it up that much.

Than she’s choosing to believe OTHER than what I have told her. She is fully aware of my own difficulties (emotional issues) and my desire and obligation to be as functional and healthy as I can for my family. One of these ways is by “not running” from my problems, but remaining open to where God is leading me through my hurts to a closer union with Him. And ALSO ACKNOWLEDGING the limitations that come with these problems.

Because a lot of my current problems are because of past boundary issues, severe neglect and verbal abuse from my father, repeated sexual abuse, and a feeling of powerlessness that accompanies it … her disregard of my boundaries has become a “trigger” for me. I cannot allow her problems to overshadow my responsibility to my own mental health. If I am not careful, I will find myself in a world of suicidal thoughts, temptations to self injury, fits of rage and temptations to violence … IOW I will find myself in “crisis.”

I have spent a lifetime carrying my fathers burdens, of bearing the responsibility of everything that was wrong in his life. Of placing his well being above my own. Of protecting my perpetrators by keeping their secret, at the expense of my own safety. And I have suffered SEVERE consequences because of it.

It has taken too long for me to get to the place where I can establish boundaries, and understand my right to do so. But yet it seems I am destined to be “the one,” the sacrificial lamb who sacrifices myself so that disordered individuals can continue in their ways with me as their victim.

Okay … (phew) so now it seems clear I have lumped her in with “them” and perhaps I am wrong. But she is really PISSING ME OFF!! She has tapped into a deep seated rage and helplessness by her PUSHINESS, and now I have the choice to allow her to continue to disregard my boundaries, or to protect myself.

Which do you think is the mentally “healthy” choice?

I have been having some “released memories” too because of her, and they are not good. Memories of terror … of helplessness … of self blame … and maybe … just maybe God is giving me this opportunity and blessing of being able to defend myself when as a child I wasn’t able to. To feel the sense of empowerment … of a sense of “NO!! THIS IS NOT OKAY!!”

Wow … it seems I really unloaded here.

 

[Consecrated]

Ana:

I have been having some “released memories” too because of her, and they are not good. Memories of terror … of helplessness … of self blame … and maybe … just maybe God is giving me this opportunity and blessing of being able to defend myself when as a child I wasn’t able to. To feel the sense of empowerment … of a sense of “NO!! THIS IS NOT OKAY!!”

Memories… a blessing and a curse.

I pray that our precious Mother Mary hold you in her arms, hide you in her mantle, and carry you through this time, guarding you from your own memories. You have happy memories too, I’m sure, with a loving husband and three (and a half!) beautiful children! I pray that those take over!

May His Will be done in your life.