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Annie
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A person can believe in Catholic social justice and still disagree with you, either from a legitimate difference of opinion or out of ignorance of the facts.
If you disagree with @Donkey’s post, instead of just accusing him of victim-blaming, why not educate him by saying something like crime rates are, what, half? what they were 20 and 30 years ago, so police should feel less overwhelmed now than they did then, especially since they have all this military style equipment, or whatever the reason might be that you disagree with him?
If you disagree with @Donkey’s post, instead of just accusing him of victim-blaming, why not educate him by saying something like crime rates are, what, half? what they were 20 and 30 years ago, so police should feel less overwhelmed now than they did then, especially since they have all this military style equipment, or whatever the reason might be that you disagree with him?
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AlNg
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It is time that the Americans solve their own problems at home instead of going around the world introducing their troops into areas where they have not been invited, and promoting regime change.
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pnewton
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And what is his sentence?
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pnewton
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What lead up to the arrest is irrelevant. Once a person is in custody and control, the officer who has taken custody is responsible for the safety and security of that prisoner/detainee. The man died. At minimum the officer failed that duty. As he kept the knee on the neck when the man said he could not breathe, he showed callous disregard for the man’s distress. The only thing that remains to be seen is whether this was a case of murder, which will require a court proceedings.
An interesting point. I doubt any of the few who have supported these rioters justified by the angst of their situation would say police officers under stress have the same justification. But then violence always involves a measure of hypocrisy.
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niceatheist
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I think of a police officer is so overwhelmed that they still are leaning on a man’s neck three minutes after he became unresponsive then he should have resigned from the police force. Saying “cops are overwhelmed” is nothing more than an excuse, and a pathetic one at that. What it really means is that police can’t be blamed for their own actions.
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Annie
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That is a much better answer than the one you gave above. You should add @Donkey to it.
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pnewton
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Exactly. That is how I also feel about all people, including those committing crimes during the protest, like robbery and arson.
There was one protester, not a rioter, in Denver who could have been killed after he jumped on the hood of a car that was not allowing him to block the street. He almost got run over. Actions have consequences and the lives of these protesters matter. It is time to calm down and not risk more lives.
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niceatheist
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Robbery and arson are terrible things. As bad as one cop kneeling on a man’s throat three minutes after he had become unresponsive while three other police officers looked in, well I guess we’ll just to agree to disagree
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pnewton
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Not necessarily, if you really think I think there is a comparison. You said “as bad as,” not I . I never made a comparison as to which is worse. The only point of comparisons is that being overwhelmed is not an excuse for any reprehensible behavior, from murder, to rioting, to being disrespectful to you spouse, child, or parent. Responsibility is a universal principle that applies at all levels.
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Balto1
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Violence in this case just erupted, like a volcano, a totally natural process man has no control over. There was no precipitating event that led to these protests, they just magically erupted.
And that’s fine, but like I said in the part of my comment you ellipsis-ed over, anyone not equally condemning the structural racism and economic injustice in America is equally culpable for these protests as the protesters.
Thinking median black wealth should be roughly equivalent to median white wealth: racism at its worst.
Dr. Meinheimer coming in hot with the “black people don’t know how to manage money” take.
And we turn to the Church to help us hear what God is telling us:
Statement of U.S. Bishop Chairmen in Wake of Death of George Floyd and National Protests
Seven U.S. bishop chairmen of committees within the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops have issued a statement in the wake of the death of Mr. George Floyd ...
As has already been discussed: those nonviolent protests were backed up by violent ones. That’s how change happens.
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meltzerboy2
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Backed up or dampened by violent protests? I think the violent protests of the '60s were a deterrent to change and progress, not a facilitator. It was the persistence of the peaceful demonstrations, not only for civil rights but also the anti-Vietnam War protests and rallies that were instrumental for real change. And I was there at the time.
Your sarcastic comparison to a volcano erupting, not mine. The violent behavior, for the most part however, was not the result of those protestors who were repulsed by the heinous crime of murder committed by the police officer and his accomplices. Most of them were vocally protesting and carrying signs but according to the rule of law. The torching of businesses and the police station, on the other hand, was mainly not the work of those protesters enraged by the inequities of Black people in a racist society, and neither was the behavior of those who were stealing items from the “Stop and Shop” store in Minneapolis. That kind of criminal behavior was calculated, and it had nothing to do with the outrage of the legitimate protestors, but, as we know, anyone can get emotionally caught up by the mindset of mob behavior.
Your sarcastic comparison to a volcano erupting, not mine. The violent behavior, for the most part however, was not the result of those protestors who were repulsed by the heinous crime of murder committed by the police officer and his accomplices. Most of them were vocally protesting and carrying signs but according to the rule of law. The torching of businesses and the police station, on the other hand, was mainly not the work of those protesters enraged by the inequities of Black people in a racist society, and neither was the behavior of those who were stealing items from the “Stop and Shop” store in Minneapolis. That kind of criminal behavior was calculated, and it had nothing to do with the outrage of the legitimate protestors, but, as we know, anyone can get emotionally caught up by the mindset of mob behavior.
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Balto1
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This is certainly possible, a lot of heavily-armed white men were starting fires in Minneapolis tonight.
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meltzerboy2
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Read the rest of my post.
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Cathoholic
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Phatmass1 . . .
Nobody here supports that.
And if I were going to be dishonest, I might say something like . . .
What a bunch of baloney.
Nobody here supports that.
And if I were going to be dishonest, I might say something like . . .
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Dr_Meinheimer
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Thanks, I don’t agree with all of them, and have no time for most of them, but a thorough out list. If I was single, I might have time for them.
I’d say if we created a list like this for every sin or vice (racism, sexism, torture, abortion, normalization of homosexuality, etc) and everyone chose a few things from the list to do, we’d make a lot of progress.
But do you really see anyone doing or agreeing to that? Why or why not?
I’d say if we created a list like this for every sin or vice (racism, sexism, torture, abortion, normalization of homosexuality, etc) and everyone chose a few things from the list to do, we’d make a lot of progress.
But do you really see anyone doing or agreeing to that? Why or why not?
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RolandThompsonGunner
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This is the frustration I have with the left, and I realize that’s a broad term, even when I’m sympathetic. It’s always a grand theory of everything. The list starts out with things actually relevant to the problem, and then becomes just a general social left grab bag. If you want to build consensus to tackle issue X, stop using X as a Trojan horse for a much broader agenda.Thankfully I know what to tell you.
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Dr_Meinheimer
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If you don’t think that would happen to ANYONE simply artificially given money or income, you are kidding yourself, and a posting like a racist for thinking this is unique to african americans. Plenty of white lottery winners would like a word with you.
As far as the USCCB, I agree - I get why folks would be frustrated. I understand sometimes this sort of violence is to be expected, if not condoned.
However, it still isn’t acceptable or defendable. I have prayed rosaries outside abortion clinics and work in the pro-life ministry for many years. I have seen the numbers telling us despite that, millions of lives are destroyed each year. So, is anyone on this topic going to suggest that we are justified in blowing up abortion clinics, given how society at large seems to be ignoring us, and lives continue to be lost?
Catholicism has never been about the ends justifying the means.
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Regular_Atheist
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I don’t really want to associate myself with broader left activism, but frankly if you don’t see racism as part of a broader structural problem then I don’t see how you can ever really understand it. A disproportionate amount of the black population of the US has lived in poverty compared to the wider US population for generations, and this kind of stuff won’t stop happening at least until that is fixed. “Solving racism” isn’t a case of changing “hearts and minds” on one specific issue.
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Dr_Meinheimer
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I have spent my life seeing non-Catholics tell me how wrong the Catholic Church is. I didn’t know I could have just ignored them, cool.
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