Another Proof against Sola Scriptura?

[2ndGen]

And that is truly the
The same is true for the JW’s and SDA

And that is truly the beauty of God’s plan. The Bible is not just “an inanimate object” It is one of the ways God chooses to speak to those who are truly seeking Him!

How do you know that this is God’s plan?
Is your belief scriptural?
Or is it a traditional belief?

If you are truly seeking God, He will not allow you to be deceived forever.

That’s pretty self incriminating for somone who denies the authenticity of God’s Word.

Even the most corrupt writings will point to the truth.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force it to drink.

The Koran is very corrupt, but points to the Christian Bible.

So is Jack Chick and Benny Hinn and Father Gaegan.

The fact is, one cannot trust themselves to judge “what” is God’s Word. God makes that decision for you. Being a member of and placing your faith in a religious group that was conceived by and created by men leaves you up to man’s guidance.

A Christian follows Christ and those whom Christ sent to us (as He said, whoever rejects The Apostles and their teachings, reject Him and God).

 

[2ndGen]

The Bible is not just “an inanimate object” It is one of the ways God chooses to speak to those who are truly seeking Him!

And that sounds like idolatry to me…placing a value on an object as if it is alive.

 

[Ginger2]

And that sounds like idolatry to me…placing a value on an object as if it is alive.

:banghead:

It’s not the object. It’s God’s choice to use the object as a tool to speak to us, just as God sometimes choses people to speak to us.

Do you “worship” the messenger?

Neither do I worship the book that contains the message.

 

[2ndGen]

:banghead:

It’s not the object. It’s God’s choice to use the object as a tool to speak to us, just as God sometimes choses people to speak to us.

Do you “worship” the messenger?

Neither do I worship the book that contains the message.

I’ll ask you again…

Is your belief based on Scripture?
Or tradition?

How do you know that God wanted to use a book to speak to us?

People, I understand, but a book that could be corrupted and have books deleted and have words changed which then changes the meaning of God’s Word like Martin Luther did when he added the word “alone” to the term “faith alone”?

Look at the havoc that one word caused to The Body of Christ. All because people placed their faith in a man and in “his” translation of God’s Word instead of sticking to God’s Word as it existed for a thousand years before he edited the bible.

Do you know that some people actually believe that the term in Romans “faith alone” actually always existed in The Bible?

 

[2ndGen]

“It’s not the object. It’s God’s choice to use the object as a tool to speak to us, just as God sometimes choses people to speak to us.”

By the way, Catholics use the same argument when talking about sacramentals (annointing oil, holy water, etc…).

 

[Ginger2]

I’ll ask you again…
Is your belief based on Scripture?
Or tradition?

Neither. My faith is based on what God has placed in my heart. I read my Catholic Bible, daily and faithfully.

I prayed that God would give me understanding to what He wanted me to understand - when God wanted me to understand.

I promised to trust whatever God said - even if it didn’t make sense to me. But I also asked that, if God so willed, it would all make sense one day.

If I had born born of atheist parents who were stranded on a desert island just before my birth,…

I have no doubt God would have spoken to me without Scriptures or prophets, but from within. I know God would have revealed Himself to me because He always keeps His promises.

God is so good.

 

[nsper7]

In fact, the Pharisees hadn’t canonized the Old Testament until 60 years “after” Jesus died @ the Council of Jamnia in 90AD.

Up until that point, all used The Septugaint (named because it had in the area of 70+ books). It was the collection they used…that is, until Jesus came. Then they had to “edit” it.

Coincidentally, they ended up removing the same books that the Pharisees, (I’m sorry, the similar “P” throws me off) I meant The Protestants removed.

The issue of the canon of the Old Testament is one that is quite difficult to answer, at least in its entirety. Read the article by J. P. Holding of Tekton Apologetics Ministries: The Canon of the OT. His comments on the Apocrypha are quite fascinating (as is virtually everything he rights) and shed some light on this argument, both about the canonization of the OT in general and the Apocrypha issues in particular; however, the issue of the Apocrypha is one that may never have a clear answer.

Perhaps the Anglican ‘Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion’ accepts this best:

And the other books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine; such are these following:

• The Third Book of Esdras.
  The Fourth Book of Esdras.
  The Book of Tobias.
  The Book of Judith.
  The rest of the Book of Esther.
  The Book of Wisdom.
  Jesus the Son of Sirach.
  Baruch the Prophet.
  The Song of the Three Children.
  The Story of Susanna.
  Of Bel and the Dragon.
  The Prayer of Manasses.
  The First Book of Maccabees.
  The Second Book of Maccabees.*

Also, I would have to say that, whether Apocrypha is ‘true’ Scripture or not or part of the Canon or not, it does not really have any bearing on whether Sola Scriptura is correct or not.

 

[2ndGen]

The issue of the canon of the Old Testament is one that is quite difficult to answer, at least in its entirety. Read the article by J. P. Holding of Tekton Apologetics Ministries: The Canon of the OT. His comments on the Apocrypha are quite fascinating (as is virtually everything he rights) and shed some light on this argument, both about the canonization of the OT in general and the Apocrypha issues in particular; however, the issue of the Apocrypha is one that may never have a clear answer.

Perhaps the Anglican ‘Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion’ accepts this best:

Also, I would have to say that, whether Apocrypha is ‘true’ Scripture or part of the Canon, it does not challenge Sola Scriptura.

Well, we don’t have to step out of the Scriptures to see how many times Jesus and The Apostles taught “from” Sirach.

On top of that, Sola Sciptura challenges Sola Scriptura as that teaching doesn’t exist in The Bible itself.

Since the Protestant Old Testament Canon didn’t exist as “canon” until “after” Jesus died, that leaves us with only one version that He used…

The Septugaint,
which have always had the books that The Pharisees and The Protestants rejected;

but that The Apostles and Jesus preached;

Of the approximately 300 Old Testament quotes in the New Testament, approximately 2/3 of them came from the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) which included the deuterocanonical books that the Protestants later removed. This is additional evidence that Jesus and the apostles viewed the deuterocanonical books as part of canon of the Old Testament. Here are some examples:

Matt. 1:23 / Isaiah 7:14 - behold, a “virgin” shall conceive. Hebrew - behold, a “young woman” shall conceive.

Matt. 3:3; Mark 1:3; John 1:23 / Isaiah 40:3 - make “His paths straight.” Hebrew - make “level in the desert a highway.”

Matt. 9:13; 12:7 / Hosea 6:6 - I desire “mercy” and not sacrifice. Hebrew - I desire “goodness” and not sacrifice.

Matt. 12:21 / Isaiah 42:4 - in His name will the Gentiles hope (or trust). Hebrew - the isles shall wait for his law.

Matt. 13:15 / Isaiah 6:10 - heart grown dull; eyes have closed; to heal. Hebrew - heart is fat; ears are heavy; eyes are shut; be healed.

Matt. 15:9; Mark 7:7 / Isaiah 29:13 - teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. Hebrew - a commandment of men (not doctrines).

Matt. 21:16 / Psalm 8:2 - out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou has “perfect praise.” Hebrew - thou has “established strength.”

Mark 7:6-8 – Jesus quotes Isaiah 29:13 from the Septuagint – “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.”

Luke 3:5-6 / Isaiah 40:4-5 - crooked be made straight, rough ways smooth, shall see salvation. Hebrew - omits these phrases.

Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 61:1 - and recovering of sight to the blind. Hebrew - the opening of prison to them that are bound.

Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 58:6 - to set at liberty those that are oppressed (or bruised). Hebrew - to let the oppressed go free.

John 6:31 / Psalm 78:24 - He gave them “bread” out of heaven to eat. Hebrew - gave them “food” or “grain” from heaven.

John 12:38 / Isaiah 53:1 - who has believed our “report?” Hebrew - who has believed our “message?”

John 12:40 / Isaiah 6:10 - lest they should see with eyes…turn for me to heal them. Hebrew - shut their eyes…and be healed.

And that’s just from The Gospels alone. There are even more from The Episltes.

scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html

 

[2ndGen]

And from the rest of The New Testament;

Acts 2:19 / Joel 2:30 - blood and fire and “vapor” of smoke. Hebrew - blood and fire and “pillars” or “columns” of smoke.

Acts 2:25-26 / Psalm 16:8 - I saw…tongue rejoiced…dwell in hope… Hebrew - I have set…glory rejoiced…dwell in safety.

Acts 4:26 / Psalm 2:1 - the rulers “were gathered together.” Hebrew - rulers “take counsel together.”

Acts 7:14 / Gen. 46:27; Deut. 10:22 - Stephen says “seventy-five” souls went down to Egypt. Hebrew - “seventy” people went.

Acts 7:27-28 / Exodus 2:14 - uses “ruler” and judge; killed the Egyptian “yesterday.” Hebrew - uses “prince” and there is no reference to “yesterday.”

Acts 7:43 / Amos 5:26-27 - the tent of “Moloch” and star of god of Rephan. Hebrew - “your king,” shrine, and star of your god.

Acts 8:33 / Isaiah 53:7-8 - in his humiliation justice was denied him. Hebrew - by oppression…he was taken away.

Acts 13:41 / Habakkuk 1:5 - you “scoffers” and wonder and “perish.” Hebrew - you “among the nations,” and “be astounded.”

Acts 15:17 / Amos 9:12 - the rest (or remnant) of “men.” Hebrew - the remnant of “Edom.”

Rom. 2:24 / Isaiah 52:5 - the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles. Hebrew - blasphemed (there is no mention of the Gentiles).

Rom. 3:4 / Psalm 51:4 - thou mayest “prevail” (or overcome) when thou art judged. Hebrew - thou might “be clear” when thou judges.

Rom. 3:12 / Psalm 14:1,3 - they “have gone wrong.” Hebrew - they are “corrupt” or “filthy.”

Rom. 3:13 / Psalm 5:9 - they use their tongues to deceive. Hebrew - they flatter with their tongues. There is no “deceit” language.

Rom. 3:13 / Psalm 140:3 - the venom of “asps” is under their lips. Hebrew - “Adder’s” poison is under their lips.

Rom. 3:14 / Psalm 10:7 - whose mouth is full of curses and “bitterness.” Hebrew - cursing and “deceit and oppression.”

Rom. 9:17 / Exodus 9:16 - my power “in you”; my name may be “proclaimed.” Hebrew - show “thee”; may name might be “declared.”

Rom. 9:25 / Hosea 2:23 - I will call my people; I will call my beloved. Hebrew - I will have mercy (love versus mercy).

Rom. 9:27 / Isaiah 10:22 - only a remnant of them “will be saved.” Hebrew - only a remnant of them “will return.”

Rom. 9:29 / Isaiah 1:9 - had not left us “children.” Hebrew - Jehova had left us a “very small remnant.”

Rom. 9:33; 10:11; 1 Peter 2:6 / Isaiah 28:16 - he who believes will not be “put to shame.” Hebrew - shall not be “in haste.”

Rom. 10:18 / Psalm 19:4 - their “voice” has gone out. Hebrew - their “line” is gone out.

Rom. 10:20 / Isaiah 65:1 - I have “shown myself” to those who did not ask for me. Hebrew - I am “inquired of” by them.

Rom. 10:21 / Isaiah 65:2 - a “disobedient and contrary” people. Hebrew - a “rebellious” people.

Rom. 11:9-10 / Psalm 69:22-23 - “pitfall” and “retribution” and “bend their backs.” Hebrew - “trap” and “make their loins shake.”

Rom. 11:26 / Isaiah 59:20 - will banish “ungodliness.” Hebrew - turn from “transgression.”

Rom. 11:27 / Isaiah 27:9 - when I take away their sins. Hebrew - this is all the fruit of taking away his sin.

Rom. 11:34; 1 Cor. 2:16 / Isaiah 40:13 -the “mind” of the Lord; His “counselor.” Hebrew - “spirit” of the Lord; “taught” Him.

Rom. 12:20 / Prov. 25:21 - feed him and give him to drink. Hebrew - give him “bread” to eat and “water” to drink.

Rom. 15:12 / Isaiah 11:10 - the root of Jesse…“to rule the Gentiles.” Hebrew - stands for an ensign. There is nothing about the Gentiles.

Rom. 15:21 / Isaiah 52:15 - been told “of him”; heard “of him.” Hebrew - does not mention “him” (the object of the prophecy).

 

[2ndGen]

1 Cor. 1:19 / Isaiah 29:14 - “I will destroy” the wisdom of the wise. Hebrew - wisdom of their wise men “shall perish.”

1 Cor. 5:13 / Deut. 17:7 - remove the “wicked person.” Hebrew - purge the “evil.” This is more generic evil in the MT.

1 Cor. 15:55 / Hosea 13:14 - O death, where is thy “sting?” Hebrew - O death, where are your “plagues?”

2 Cor. 4:13 / Psalm 116:10 - I believed and so I spoke (past tense). Hebrew - I believe, for I will speak (future tense).

2 Cor. 6:2 / Isaiah 49:8 - I have “listened” to you. Hebrew - I have “answered” you.

Gal. 3:10 / Deut. 27:26 - cursed be every one who does not “abide” by all things. Hebrew - does not “confirm” the words.

Gal. 3:13 / Deut. 21:23 - cursed is everyone who hangs on a “tree.” Hebrew - a hanged man is accursed. The word “tree” does not follow.

Gal. 4:27 / Isaiah 54:1 - “rejoice” and “break forth and shout.” Hebrew - “sing” and “break forth into singing.”

2 Tim. 2:19 / Num. 16:5 - The Lord “knows” those who are His. Hebrew - God will “show” who are His.

Heb. 1:6 / Deut. 32:43 - let all the angels of God worship Him. Hebrew - the Masoretic text omits this phrase from Deut. 32:43.

Heb. 1:12 / Psalm 102:25 - like a “mantle” … “roll them”… “will be changed.” Hebrew - “raiment”… “change”…“pass away.”

Heb. 2:7 / Psalm 8:5 - thou has made Him a little “lower than angels.” Hebrew - made Him but a little “lower than God.”

Heb. 2:12 / Psalm 22:22 - I will " sing" thy praise. Hebrew - I will praise thee. The LXX and most NTs (but not the RSV) have “sing.”

Heb. 2:13 / Isaiah 8:17 - I will “put my trust in Him.” Hebrew - I will “look for Him.”

Heb. 3:15 / Psalm 95:8 - do not harden your hearts as “in the rebellion.” Hebrew - harden not your hearts “as at Meribah.”

Heb. 3:15; 4:7 / Psalm 95:7 - when you hear His voice do not harden not your hearts. Hebrew - oh that you would hear His voice!

Heb. 8:9-10 / Jer. 31:32-33 - (nothing about husband); laws into their mind. Hebrew - I was a husband; law in their inward parts.

Heb. 9:28 / Isaiah 10:22 - “to save those” who are eagerly awaiting for Him. Hebrew - a remnant of them “shall return.”

Heb. 10:5 / Psalm 40:6 - “but a body hast thou prepared for me.” Hebrew - “mine ears hast thou opened.”

Heb. 10:38 / Hab. 2:3-4 - if he shrinks (or draws) back, my soul shall have no pleasure. Hebrew - his soul is puffed up, not upright.

Heb. 11:5 / Gen. 5:24 - Enoch was not “found.” Hebrew - Enoch was “not.”

Heb. 11:21 / Gen. 47:31 - Israel, bowing “over the head of his staff.” Hebrew - there is nothing about bowing over the head of his staff.

Heb. 12:6 / Prov. 3:12 - He chastises every son whom He receives. Hebrew - even as a father the son in whom he delights.

Heb. 13:6 / Psalm 118:6 - the Lord “is my helper.” Hebrew - Jehova “is on my side.” The LXX and the NT are identical.

James 4:6 / Prov. 3:34 - God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Hebrew - He scoffs at scoffers and gives grace to the lowly.

1 Peter 1:24 / Isaiah 40:6 - all its “glory” like the flower. Hebrew - all the “goodliness” as the flower.

1 Pet. 2:9 / Exodus 19:6 - you are a “royal priesthood.” Hebrew - you shall be to me a “kingdom of priests.”

1 Pet. 2:9 / Isaiah 43:21 - God’s own people…who called you out of darkness. Heb. - which I formed myself. These are different actions.

1 Pet. 2:22 / Isaiah 53:9 - he “committed no sin.” Hebrew - he “had done no violence.”

1 Pet. 4:18 / Prov. 11:31 - if a righteous man “is scarcely saved.” Hebrew - if the righteous “is recompensed.”

1 Pet. 5:5 / Prov. 3:34 - God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Hebrew - He scoffs at scoffers and gives grace to lowly.

Isaiah 11:2 - this verse describes the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit, but the seventh gift, “piety,” is only found in the Septuagint.

scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html

 

[2ndGen]

That Jesus Christ and The Apostles used what other Christian faiths call “not inspired by God” is undeniable.

Who decided that these books were “apochryphal”?

Human beings in the 16th century.

So the teaching that these books are not inspired by God are man made teachings.

 

[nsper7]

Here is an article from the Christian Think-Tank and linked to from Tekton Apologetics Ministries on the Septuagint.

“Why don’t we use the Septuagent for our OT?”

 

[2ndGen]

Here is an article from the Christian Think-Tank and linked to from Tekton Apologetics Ministries on the Septuagint.

“Why don’t we use the Septuagent for our OT?”

Looked it over.

A bit too scholarly for my layman’s brain,
but I definately appreciate the points.

The fact remains…Jesus quoted from The Septugaint version of The Old Testament.

Why can’t Protestants accept this?

And why do they prefer the canon of The Pharisees to the canon of The Apostles?

That will never make sense to me.



Pax.

 

[nsper7]

A bit too scholarly for my layman’s brain,
but I definately appreciate the points.

Just to make sure you know, the bolded text is the letter of the questioner while the ‘plain’ is the response/answer of Christian Think-Tank.

The fact remains…Jesus quoted from The Septugaint version of The Old Testament.

Why can’t Protestants accept this?

I cannot answer for other Protestants, but I personally don’t have a theological issue with the idea that Jesus may have quoted from the LXX version of the Old Testament.

 

[2ndGen]

Just to make sure you know, the bolded text is the letter of the questioner while the ‘plain’ is the response/answer of Christian Think-Tank.

I cannot answer for other Protestants, but I personally don’t have a theological issue with the idea that Jesus may have quoted from the LXX version of the Old Testament.

Well, if one was to read Sirach for themselves, they’d see The Beatitudes there, The Lord’s Prayer, the doctrine Jesus taught on Salvation…it’s Gospels from beginning to end.

Have you ever read it?

st-takla.org/pub_Deuterocanon/Deuterocanon-Apocrypha_El-Asfar_El-Kanoneya_El-Tanya__5-Wisdon-of-Joshua-Son-of-Sirach.html

 

[JRKH]

If all of you could just hear yourselves.
Back and forth – Back and forth – Back and forth over the same arguments that have been around for centuries.
The Bible this the Bible that…

Allow me to propose a line of reasoning:

1. The Bible is the “Word of God”
2. The Holy Spirit inspired the authors to write “God’s Word.”
3. We can count on the Holy Spirit to Guard and Protect the Scriptures from corruption.
4. The Holy Spirit Will Guide us in our understanding and interpretation.

Now how ell does this stand up to scrutiny?

First point:
What language does God speak? Does anyone now? Is there any language in the human tongue or from the human mind that can adequately express the Glory of God’s message?
There cannot be. Therefore it is impossible for a) an inspired writer to ever fully express what God wrote in his heart and, b) for those reading to ever fully comprehend what the writer wished to convey just by reading the passages.

Second Point:
Surely if the Holy Spirit inspires the writers there will be no error in their intent, nor in the substance of what they write. However, since the human mind cannot write down the fullness of God’s message in their heart, the written word cannot be complete by itself.

Third Point:
If the Holy Spirit inspired the authors, it is logical to assume that the HS also guards what is written. It follows then that the HS guarded and guided the ones who assembled the Bible, and those who have translated it. If this is true, then there should not be so many differing translations of the Bible with each decalring itself to be the most accurate.

Fourth Point:
If the HS is guarding Scripture and Guiding those reading and interpreting it, there should be a consistancy in interpretion. Yet this is not the case. Why?

Conclusions:

1. The Bible is a collection of translated writings of inestimable value but they are only a pale shadow of God’s message. It is mainly an attempt by men of inspiration to convey that inspiration to others.
2. When man is inspired by the Holy Spirit to write, he will do his best but remains limited by: 1) The ability of language to convey and 2) The ability of readers to understand.
3. Once the inspired message becomes the written word, it becomes suseptable to corruption through either ignorance, or design.
4. While the Bible remains an indespensable core to our faith, the more emphasis one places on “The Bible” the more suseptable one is to the “Babble” of multiple interpretations.
5. God Alone is and remains the source of all truth.
6. Churches, Bibles, Liturgies, etc, in other words, anything created for man’s use in salvation is also capable of mis-use either by accident or design.
7. God is!!! – All the rest is details.

Peace

James

 

[Ginger2]

First point:

Agreed!

Second Point: & Third Point:/QUOTE]

You are over-looking something here, but it would take more time than I have right now to discuss.
JRKH;3145953:

Fourth Point:
If the HS is guarding Scripture and Guiding those reading and interpreting it, there should be a consistancy in interpretion. Yet this is not the case. Why?

Freewill man! The Bible says people will misinterpret it to please themselves. But those who are truly seeking God, and not what they would like their god to be, will eventually find what they seek

Actually, God seems to allow everyone to find what they seek. So those who want to be deceived because they don’t like what God has to say, will no doubt be deceived by choice.

 

[2ndGen]

Freewill man! The Bible says people will misinterpret it to please themselves. But those who are truly seeking God, and not what they would like their god to be, will eventually find what they seek

Actually, God seems to allow everyone to find what they seek. So those who want to be deceived because they don’t like what God has to say, will no doubt be deceived by choice.

How can a person have free will, and be guided by The Holy Spirit?

Doesn’t one have to submit their will before it could be guided?

Doesn’t it take the submission of trust in order for one to blindly accept what The Holy Spirit reveals to us?

Besides, to believe that man has never ever added or deleted books from The Bible is very naive.

Here…read what Martin Luther (the church father of Protestantism) said himself:

Martin Luther Added to the Book of Romans

The Bible, in Romans 3:28, states,

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Martin Luther, in his German translation of the Bible, specifically added the word “allein” (English ‘alone’) to Romans 3:28-a word that is not in the original Greek. Notice what Protestant scholars have admitted:

…Martin Luther would once again emphasize…that we are “justified by faith alone”, apart from the works of the Law" (Rom. 3:28), adding the German word allein (“alone”) in his translation of the Greek text. There is certainly a trace of Marcion in Luther’s move (Brown HOJ. Heresies: Heresy and Orthodoxy in the History of the Church. Hendrickson Publishers, Peabody (MA), 1988, pp. 64-65).

Furthermore, Martin Luther himself reportedly said,

You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127).

cogwriter.com/luther.htm

Now that you know this, can you still trust any bibles that were written by Protestants since they are known to edit The Word of God?

 

[Ginger2]

How can a person have free will, and be guided by The Holy Spirit?

Doesn’t one have to submit their will before it could be guided?

I can guide my children toward making good choices. I can warn them not to make specific bad choices.

But my children will ultimately make their own decisions. Some may come back and admit they should have listened. Some will be stubborn and continue in their poor choices.

How can a parent give her children guidance if they refuse to listen?

No one will have excuse. God gives everyone an opportunity to accept or deny. But the responsibility lies with the individual to chose.

Besides, to believe that man has never ever added or deleted books from The Bible is very naive.

I don’t think anyone believes that people can’t mistranslate the Scripture. Jerome did, and the Vatican later corrected the errors.
(unfortunately, many Catholics still use the faulted translation)

What I am saying is that Jesus promised:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father’s hand.
I and [my] Father are one. (Jhn 10:27-30)

God always keeps His promises.

 

[po18guy]

And that sounds like idolatry to me…placing a value on an object as if it is alive.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that some of the 50% Christians (bible only) actually worship the book. As sacred as scripture is, as inspired as it is, as inerrant as it is, the word of God exists only as a mere shadow of the Word made flesh, which is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Who, coincidentally, resides only in the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches. The rest settle for just the book until the Holy Spirit illumines their minds.