Anti-Catholicism

[KingTheoden]

Thank you, mpjw2. I believe you are closer to the truth than our friend SSPXguy who calls his fellow human beings a tool of satan, while failing to see his own failure to live the Gospel.

The purpoose behind the rites and rituals of the Faith is to facilitate our transformation into Christ and bring the Kingdom of God to the world through others’ experience of God through us. They are a means to an end, that is, Jesus Christ. Instead, they are treated to our self-centered arrogance at “being right”. Many think the rituals are ends to themselves, and treat others with hostility, and ostracism if they are the least bit reticent.

Sadly, people are too willing to sacrifice charity to promote their attachment to a certain way of expressing these means. There is a certain spiritual blindness brought on by the spiritual pride of “doing it right”. Those who participate do not know, neither do they care that they are going against the Will of God by causing divisiveness through disobedience and lack of charity and good will. They are right, and the “other guy” is in deep trouble. It is very troubling. The devil’s craftiest trick yet.

But, let’s face it, when it comes down to it, we will be judged according to the mercy we have shown others. We could win the whole world were we to take on the humility of St. Francis, regarding others as better than ourselves and preaching the Gospel with our examples. Far too few of us live this way. That is why Christianity is failing.

I have to respectfully disagree with some implications of what you wrote.

Though it might be politically incorrect, I find it hard to assume that a Protestant or non-denomination is ‘closer’ than an active, orthodox Catholic who may or may not lack charity in his discourse.

This is a BIG issue for me because a lot of ecumenism has become nothing but indifferentism, and that is to the detriment of those not in the Church. Implying that someone can count on salvation without the Church is very popular and very wrong. I’m not saying that is what you are saying, I am just hashing out a fine point because I think your post goes close to that idea.

My next difference of opinion is in regards to rituals and their importance. Many are much more than just signs or means to an end. It is sort of like how it is impolite in many cultures to enter a home with shoes on. This is often functional because walking with dirty shoes can ruin floors and rugs; traditional Japanese flooring does not hold up well against steel toe boots! It is the same with how we treat God. Over the years ornate ways of handling Him in the Eucharist formed organically.

What traditionalists fear is that modern inventions do not keep in mind the same intense care given to God over the ages; not all Novus Ordo masses are disrespectful (my parish is excellent). However, many are. It is something like why many of us dress up for various occassions (or even work): it is simply polite and proper. Perhaps a necktie does not immediately add functionality to a desk job, but it tells a client that you respect him enough to dress up for him. So this ritual does render an efficacious result by the very nature of the ritual itself.

Finally, Christianity is not faily by any means. Protestantism is in collapse; that much is true. Within the Church, there exist many issues (heterodox preaching and belief, child abuse scandals, argument over just what it means to embrace modernism, etc.), but the Church is not failing. I see in my age block, 18-35, a spiritual renaissance that is overwelmingly conservative and traditional. Christ’s church will never fail, no matter how dark terrible things seem.

Addendum: I have loved St. Francis long before I became Catholic. I have felt a sort of kindred spirit with him much of my life. And it is for that reason that I get a little sensative when he is used for various purposes. We have to be careful that we take into account the fullness of his ministry and not take things out of context or try to apply some of his beautiful works incorrectly.

 

[fbl9]

Remember too that we go by the teaching’s of the Apostles. Who got it staight from the Mouth of Jesus Christ.

The Apostles teach that the Church is ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC.

So if the Mormon church is all that you got made. But we both know it is not called the Catholic CHurch it is called the Mormon Church

Here i thought we called them Mormoms, but don’t they belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:shrug:
Where did Mormom, as a name ,come from?

 

[kimberly923200]

Hey everyone. The more I look into the Catholic faith, the more I realize that people in general just don’t like it. All I’ve seen were extremes; you either love it or you hate it. I haven’t really seen many in-betweens yet, especially among protestants. Personally, I love God’s church and look forward to joining it. But… why do so many people hate it? The Catholic church seems to get twice as much hate as protestantism and other religions. Maybe it’s just because the area where I live is mostly dominated by Baptists and non-denominational protestants. Still, they even seem to have a bad rep online. What’s your opinion on this matter?

Some people hate The Catholic Church because it’s the FULLNESS OF ALL REVEALED TRUTH. The devil is behind that hatred for sure.

 

[kimberly923200]

Because look at the Bible what did Jesus tell you. He said the world hates me and they will hate you. Because I am not of this world and neither are you.

God told you the devil will do his best to tear down the true church. BUt Jesus also said he will never do it.

Look a Jesus, how much love did he get? The Church will always be hated just like there will always be people who hate Jesus. But all we have to do is worry about ourself. ANd we love the Church because we know who the Church is. Jesus told us in the bible He is the Church.

Yes, if we each took care of our own souls, we wouldn’t have to tell other people to do the same and the world would be a better place.

 

[Kielbasi]

From this vantage, complaints about anti-catholicism particularly in the 21st century United States are really exaggerated.

I just don’t see discrimination in housing or employment or public accommidations against Catholics being much of a factor at all.

Of course, non-catholics have their own views. If they didn’t, they’d be Catholic themselves.

The fact that protestants or Greek Orthodox or Jews or atheists are opposed to Catholic doctrine is something that is to be expected. Religion is a controversial topic. People are opposed to other religions.

The only real difference is that more people are familiar with the Catholic Church than they are with other religions because Catholicism is the world’s largest single faith.

 

[rinnie]

Here i thought we called them Mormoms, but don’t they belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:shrug:
Where did Mormom, as a name ,come from?

I really don’t know. But thats a good question? I know we are called Catholics because we go to the CC. And Protestants for Protestant Church. I guess to be correct, and this is gonna get me in alot of heat, But I guess they are Protestants.

 

[sckcd]

I really don’t know. But thats a good question? I know we are called Catholics because we go to the CC. And Protestants for Protestant Church. I guess to be correct, and this is gonna get me in alot of heat, But I guess they are Protestants.

Lol, maybe Mormons are Protestants by definition in that they do not follow the Catholic Church. But Mormons are definitely not similiar to Methodists, Baptists, Disciples of Christ, etc. That’s why as technically a lifelong Protestant, I usually just say I’m a Baptist if someone wants specifics, but mostly I just call myself a Christian. And I have never heard of a church that is simply called Protestant Church.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

I’d just say to be patient with them, for the most part. I’m guessing that many people in this sub-forum weren’t raised with a Protestant understanding of Christian doctrine, and knew what Catholic doctrines were from an early age. If you weren’t, it’s difficult to overstate just how alien, just how cultlike, specific Catholic doctrines and practices can look.

At first blush, to a “cradle Protestant” Catholicism may look older than Mormonism, Scientology, and Raelianism, but only marginally less weird. It’s a bit uncharitable and blinkered to say that they’re simply intimidated by Catholicism’s obvious, manifest truth, or that they’re just rebelling against what any fool can see is the One True Church. I know much more than I once did about Catholicism, and am increasingly attracted to it, but can’t overstate how distant it is from what I was reared to consider orthodox Christianity, and how close it skirts to outright contradiction of it.

Of course, there’s an even stronger anti-Catholicism from the other direction–i.e., hostility towards orthodox religion in general, of which the Catholic church looks like the most arresting & easily caricatured example. Always important to distinguish the two.

 

[1beleevr]

Doen’t it seem like everyone is anti something or other? Anti-war, anti abortion, anti-death penalty, anti Jewish, anti Protestant, anti catholic There are a myriad of reasons why someone is anti anything; those reasons not always being logical, or biblical. God actually tells us to love our enemies! The biggest reason for being anti any religion is ARROGANCE! The feeling that your church/religion is better than anyone else’s. And exclusivity; only allowing those who promise to do what your church demands. And judgement; we are not to judge Jesus welcomes ALL to be a part of His Kingdom! So don’t sweat the small stuff like anti-catholicism, or bashing, get over yourself!

 

[edwest2]

Arrogance? On Catholic Radio, I listened to Father Ricardo give the options of who Jesus was:

Liar: He was not telling the truth.

Lunatic: Just some crazy guy who, you know, thought he was God.

Lord: He was who He said He was.

I think anyone who reads what He said and did will be inclined to recognize Him as Lord. The Catholic Church is the Church He founded. So no, the truth is the truth, it is not arrogant to say something is true.

Peace,
Ed

 

[PJM]

=rinnie;5705986]I really don’t know. But thats a good question? I know we are called Catholics because we go to the CC. And Protestants for Protestant Church. I guess to be correct, and this is gonna get me in alot of heat, But I guess they are Protestants.

Not in thecommon understanding of the term. They are a cult. Not a religion that accepts God.

 

[r4j]

The truth can be hard to handle.

 

[1beleevr]

edwest2::??? Your post doesn’t make a lot of sense; and I’m not sure what your point is? Arrogance infects all churches, and all Christians, at one time or another! It has nothing to do with whether Jesus was a liar, or which church teaches the Truth(Jesus). But, in my experienc, the catholics whine the most(and I never have enough cheese!), about being bashed! I tell my catholic co-workers/friends to put on their big boy pants, and get over themselves! Let’s face it, if you are going to follow Christ, you’re going to be persecuted, hated, resented, and yes, bashed

 

[Ceil-1]

King Theo,

I think you misunderstood me. I am well aware of the fears the traditionalists have of the Faith being watered down by too much “fraternizing with the enemy”, so to speak. But, this fear (fear being a tool of the devil), causes an ostracism and its concomitant lack of charity. It is causing serious division within the Body of Christ. It’s source is lack of humility.

I love the Tridentine Mass, but will not attend because of the arrogance and lack of friendliness of some of the more vocal members. It defeats the purpose of attending when there are so many hard feelings, and detraction and calumny being spread. Not all of it is even accurate, and it is not justified in any case. I believe offenders are influenced by other than the Holy Spirit in this regard.

There is so much concern over keeping the purity of the form ( I think it has more to do with some control issues, in some cases), that they are willing to keep themselves from socializing with those who may be on the fence (determined by a person like myself protesting the detraction/calumny), or participating in important causes such as the pro life cause. It seems the traditionalists have to the “the boss of it all” in these matters, or it’s not “good enough” for them. Yes, I am resentful.

I am resentful because, if their zeal were tempered with humility, the world could be won over. As it is there is division, duplicity of thought, a lack of unity. Traditionalists will not dialogue with non-catholics on any level ( unless they see a fish to catch). I disagree that Christianity is not failing. It was all been wiped out of the Middle East in the space of about 10 years. It is being squelched in the Phillipines rather successfully. And Protestant sects, JW"s and Mormons are having a field day all over the place. The Church where it’s growing tends to be charismatic, an expression much maligned by our traditionalist brothers. I am not saying that you are one of them, but…

I don’t think I’m all that off the mark. Our Protestant friend clearly has a clean heart bent on Christ. Our traditionalist brothers are too willing to sacrifice this relationship to get their points across, insist on a certain form, and be in “charge of it all”. (Because no one else can get it right.) One thing our Saints have in common. They had humility. There is a dearth of humility exampled in this movement. Surely you can concede to that.

Thanks for the link, mpjw2.

 

[r4j]

edwest2::??? Your post doesn’t make a lot of sense; and I’m not sure what your point is? Arrogance infects all churches, and all Christians, at one time or another! It has nothing to do with whether Jesus was a liar, or which church teaches the Truth(Jesus). But, in my experienc, the catholics whine the most(and I never have enough cheese!), about being bashed! I tell my catholic co-workers/friends to put on their big boy pants, and get over themselves! Let’s face it, if you are going to follow Christ, you’re going to be persecuted, hated, resented, and yes, bashed

I think part of edwest’s point is that the truth is objective and thus to say, ‘the truth is …’ is not arrogance, it’s just stating the facts.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Doen’t it seem like everyone is anti something or other? Anti-war, anti abortion, anti-death penalty, anti Jewish, anti Protestant, anti catholic There are a myriad of reasons why someone is anti anything; those reasons not always being logical, or biblical. God actually tells us to love our enemies! The biggest reason for being anti any religion is ARROGANCE! The feeling that your church/religion is better than anyone else’s. And exclusivity; only allowing those who promise to do what your church demands. And judgement; we are not to judge Jesus welcomes ALL to be a part of His Kingdom! So don’t sweat the small stuff like anti-catholicism, or bashing, get over yourself!

your statement is false. Jesus call all to be of One Faith. One Mind, One Church. One Spirit. now, if the CC says the Body and Blood of Christ is True food and True drink and your church says it is not, one of these are lying. both cannot be right. see what i mean.

your statement is made to intimidate the Truth. the Truth must be told despite of those who dont like to hear. it is not arrogant. it is not positive neither negative. Truth is just that. The Truth. whatch out: the pharisees considered Jesus to be arrogant because He told them the Truth. they just could not accept.

 

[r4j]

your statement is false. Jesus call all to be of One Faith. One Mind, One Church. One Spirit. now, if the CC says the Body and Blood of Christ is True food and True drink and your church says it is not, one of these are lying. both cannot be right. see what i mean.

your statement is made to intimidate the Truth. the Truth must be told despite of those who dont like to hear. it is not arrogant. it is not positive neither negative. Truth is just that. The Truth. whatch out: the pharisees considered Jesus to be arrogant because He told them the Truth. they just could not accept.

That’s the thing - whether you like it or not or believe it or not - it doesn’t change the Truth. The Truth is not a something, it’s a Somebody and His name is Jesus Christ. And He’s immutable, unchangeable. That’s a source of comfort. One of the biggest reasons people have so much trouble is because we can’t accept that the truth is outside of us. We can’t accept that God laid down His laws wisely and lovingly - to perfect and fulfill us, not to rob us of our freedom.
Fr. Corapi says truth used to be objective but when Renee Decartes utterred ‘I think, therefore I am’, Fr. says people intuited that to mean we can think the truth into existence. And we got ourselves into a lot of trouble. It’s back to the beginning - Garden of Eden - ‘we can decide for ourselves what’s good and what’s evil. We can be like gods.’

 

[ljubim]

Doen’t it seem like everyone is anti something or other? Anti-war, anti abortion, anti-death penalty, anti Jewish, anti Protestant, anti catholic There are a myriad of reasons why someone is anti anything; those reasons not always being logical, or biblical. God actually tells us to love our enemies! The biggest reason for being anti any religion is ARROGANCE! The feeling that your church/religion is better than anyone else’s. And exclusivity; only allowing those who promise to do what your church demands. And judgement; we are not to judge Jesus welcomes ALL to be a part of His Kingdom! So don’t sweat the small stuff like anti-catholicism, or bashing, get over yourself!

People are anti war because they support peace. They are anti abortion because they support life. Is that wrong to you?

As Catholics, because we believe in the Truth, people make us their enemies. Being strong, standing up for what you believe in, standing up for God rather than cowering in the corner, will make you more enemies than you can imagine. Loving your enemies does not mean joining them, or stooping to their level.

You should seriously look into relativism and how wrong it is. Because it sounds like you’re subscribing to this… Scroll down to lectures and DL Relativism It’s a really good listen!

 

[1beleevr]

ijubim: Someone is only my enemy, if they make themselves my enemy! I don’t look at anyone, Christian or not, and say,“Man, I hate that person!”. Sometimes, I do feel like because I don’t believe the way that someone else does, that they make me their enemy. What an awful situation; that God’s people would choose to separarte themselves from each other, based on differences in doctrine We all serve the same big God; and we call only Him Holy Father! And the title of this thread is anti-catholicism; so I was merely pointing out that,1) everyone is now, or has been anti something in their lives, and 20 it seems that catholics sound off more about catholic bashing. I have had some hot discussions with catholics, but have never bashed them!; Some of them feel like if you don’t agree with them, you are a catholic basher. Personally, I don’t care if you agree with me:thumbsup: Like someone said in another thread; when we all get to Heaven, it won’t matter where you went to church, or what faith you were:thumbsup: We will all be saints, regardless of age, race, etc. And don’t say we’ll all be catholics, because you don’t have any substantiating evidence to prove it

 

[1beleevr]

wisdomseeker: The statement is not false! And no one can intimidate the Truth, whom I agree is Our Lord Christ Jesus!!! And it is interesting how you pick out certain parts of the post, and twist them I did not say that the Truth was arrogant, however human beings can be arrogant, and you know it! And whether or not you like it or accept it, ALL of US who are in Christ, are one with Him; He assured us of that fact. So if you believe that the rest of us are not worthy of His love, and salvation, and grace, then you are bashing us