Any Anti Vaxxers on here who do not want to take the COVID vaccine?

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Annie said:
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LeafByNiggle:
There are those that cannot tolerate vaccines. The only protection they have is herd immunity.
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What do they do during flu season?
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They do the best they can. And that is what they will do if most people refuse to get vaccinated. Their life just got noticeable harder by the inconsiderateness of others.
 
The flu vaccine is sometimes not even effective for the current season’s spectrum of flu viruses. I suppose if someone does not take a vaccine, they realize they may get the virus and contribute to herd immunity in that way. No need to act like those to take the vaccine may never get the flu or pass it to others the same as the person NOT taking the vaccine…as if accidentally passing a virus is an immoral thing. 🤦
 
Occasionally get the flu, but rarely… same as those that vaccinate.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
They do the best they can. And that is what they will do if most people refuse to get vaccinated. Their life just got noticeable harder by the inconsiderateness of others.
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So the rest of us are expected to take risks with a new vaccine whose side effects can’t be known?
 
Elf01 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
They do the best they can. And that is what they will do if most people refuse to get vaccinated. Their life just got noticeable harder by the inconsiderateness of others.
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So the rest of us are expected to take risks with a new vaccine whose side effects can’t be known?
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The risks and side-effects are managed by the extensive testing that has already happened with volunteers.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The risks and side-effects are managed by the extensive testing that has already happened with volunteers.
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I don’t think a year is long enough to really know the risks.

I also don’t think expecting everyone to be vaccinated is realistic, or reasonable
 
Elf01 said:
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LeafByNiggle:
The risks and side-effects are managed by the extensive testing that has already happened with volunteers.
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I don’t think a year is long enough to really know the risks.
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Given that 1.5 million people have died in 9 months with this disease, it would be criminal to withhold the vaccine for another year.
I also don’t think expecting everyone to be vaccinated is realistic, or reasonable
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Which is a separate question from the question of whether it is good. I could also say that expecting everyone to refrain from abortions is unrealistic and unreasonable. But that would not in the least affect the question of whether or not it is right to try.
 
Joegrane said:
I sincerely doubt anyone will be mandated to take the vaccine but there might be restrictions on what they allowed to do. If the airline industry requires proof of vaccination before flying then citizens will have to make the decision to fly or not go…same with any employer mandates. Other than the military, I doubt any government mandates will be declared. But pressure and shaming? Yes, there might very well be some of that. Nothing more, though.”"

Hopefully honest people can see through the deception by vaccine salesmen and their trolls in our group.
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Are you accusing me of being a troll to big Pharma? If so, I ask that you retract that statement as it isn’t true and is quite uncharitable. I’m a retired Medical Technologist. I am NOT a fan of big Pharma but I don’t think they are the devil incarnate either.

The studies about vitamin D have been all over the news. It’s not some hidden secret. It’s being studied and reported in the peer reviewed literature all the time. It’s interesting but still not definitive.
Annie said:
That is where I am confused–what happens if too few (whatever that number may be) get vaccinated?
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If too few take the vaccine then the virus will continue to spike and cause havoc in communities. So far, it seems likely that enough people will get the vaccine to enable everyone to begin to return to normalcy. If way too few take the vaccine and can’t be convinced within a reasonable timeframe, then we will continue to have self quarantines, social distancing, mask wearing and no large gatherings. That’s pretty much our choice as a society. Will there be peer pressure to get it? I think yes, there will. If you have lost your livelihood do to Covid and the response to it then you’re going to be very motivated to want society to vaccinate so you can resume your livelihood. The answer to our lousy economy is to defeat this virus and vaccines defeat viruses, plain and simple. To not take the vaccine but insist that you want to go out and spread the infection…which is what the unvaccinated are unwillingly doing if they mingle with the public…is a bit hypocritical and uncharitable. If you don’t want the vaccine but continue following all recommendations including isolating as much as possible, that’s fine as you hopefully aren’t continuing the spread by doing that.

The numbers can’t be estimated yet on how many will take the vaccine. I expect there are going to be many public service and discussions on the pros and cons of this vaccine. We may have a choice between two or three…it looks like at least two vaccines will be approved. Expect each of these two or more companies to be touting the benefits of theirs! Competition is GOOD.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
TBF, you are the one who said “extensive testing”.
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That’s what the CDC says they are doing. I have no reason to disbelieve them. It does not seem that impossible to me as a layman. You just get a sufficiently large group of volunteers with a diverse enough background and observe them for a while.
 
The disease is less than one year old.
That’s not enough time to do extensive testing on anything.
 
That’s what Nurse Scarlett says.

Who worked on pharmaceutical.

And who simply can’t see how they can even project an accurate timing for booster shots on a less than one year old disease.

The other diseases that have vaccinations are old. We knew a lot about them. Developed vaccinations over time.
Amd they weren’t forced on people.

Amd we didn’t have the type of rhetoric around them trying to guilt and shame and make up phony new moralities around taking them vs waiting-to-see how it all plays out.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
That’s what Nurse Scarlett says.
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I still take the word of the CDC over Nurse Scarlett who worked in pharmaceuticals.
And who simply can’t see how they can even project an accurate timing for booster shots on a less than one year old disease.
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Again, if you want to know the reasoning behind the timing of the booster, you should probably as Pfizer or Moderna or the scientists at the CDC.
Amd they weren’t forced on people.
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Vaccines may not have been forced, but they have been required for participation in various aspects of society, like public school or employment by those employers who demand it. It is your choice. You can home school and you don’t have to work for a company that requires their employees to be vaccinated.
Amd we didn’t have the type of rhetoric around them trying to guilt and shame and make up phony new moralities…
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The mortalities reported by the CDC are not phony.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The mortalities reported by the CDC are not phony.
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Morality is the assigning of good or evil value to a particular action.
The CDC has not done this.

Individuals, however, have been ramping up this rhetoric.

And it’s very important that we stop it and challenge it at every turn.

People have the right to say “no” to injecting things into their bodies.
 
And it should not be framed in the language of morality.
 
pnewton said:
That is not a difference I would want to force upon hospitals and other medical organizations. That is too much government overreach for me. It is still voluntary, as no job is forced on anyone. Safety requirements for a job are usually up to the employer, based on OSHA standards.
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I have a close friend who is a new doctor, and honestly I don’t think that for practical purposes, this is true.

Medical school was hideously expensive. He (and other non-rich people who nonetheless wanted to help people through practicing medicine) had to accept going into significant debt to do it. Debt that can now basically only be paid off by continuing to be a doctor for several years (since being a doctor is one of the few professions that actually makes enough income to pay off that level of debt).

I seriously doubt my friend will feel like he has a choice, if he’s told that receiving this vaccine is required to remain a medical practitioner. Financially, I do not believe he would be in a position to reasonably consider such a proposition (“inject this substance or spend the rest of your life buried in debt you can never realistically repay, plus consider wasted the many years of your life you spent training to help people in this specialized field”) “voluntary”.

My friend went into medicine to help people. He was willing to accept the financial burden (etc) for that reason. If he’s later forbidden from medically helping people, and forced to bear that financial burden for nothing? … honestly, it just realistically does sound like “force” to me. Maybe it wouldn’t be for a doctor 30 years into their practice – but for a new doctor just starting their career, still buried in debt they haven’t yet paid off by that 30 years of doctor-ing, it is.

Again, I receive vaccines – in general.

But if on top of all the other huge sacrifices my friend has had to make in pursuing medical practice, he also ends up effectively forced to inject a rushed-through substance that – God forbid – ends up having horrible side effects for him? I can’t articulate right now how unjust I will find that to have been.
 
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