Any Catholics around who reject a teaching or two? Post here!

[1SeekingChrist]

What processes have to take place in order for them to change a teaching?

SOME things can change, others cannot. If it is a doctrine or dogma it cannot be changed because that is a matter of truth. There is development of truth, which refers to how we understand some things. Cremation was considered a sin because it was used in the Middle Ages by some who burned “heretics” at the stake because it was believed they could not be resurrected from the dead. We’ve come to understand things a little better and realize this will not be the case. Smoking in itself is NOT a sin but if one is smoking so much that it will obviously damage their health or that person has a health condition which will be aggravated by smoking. Now that we know more about smoking, one COULD make an argument for it being a mortal sin, but then again, habituality of a sin can reduce culpability.

Zundrah, I’ve been following the threads you’ve been posting in the last day or so, and it’s clear that, on certain matters, you do not actually understand the truth. Whether that’s just a simple rejection of something you don’t like or it simply hasn’t been explained well enough to you, I don’t know. What is certain, however, is you do not understand either the topic or what truth is. The truth is the truth; it is TRUE whether you like it or not and, as Catholics, we need to be submissive to the teachings of the Church, ask for God’s grace to accept and eventually understand these teachings.

From your posts, it sounds like you converted to Catholicism (please correct me if I’m wrong). If you really do leave the Church, do you realize what you’re losing? You’re losing the Sacraments, the graces that come from them; you’re losing the teaching authority of the Church, from which we can have a certainty of what our faith says; you’re losing communion with the Church that Christ founded on the earth; you’re going back to the wilderness where food is scarce and nothing is certain and you’re ultimately alone. Don’t do that.

And most of all, you will lose the Eucharist. The Eucharist is Christ - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. He is physically present there. At Mass, just as he told his disciples at the Last Supper, he tells us “I have longed to have this meal with you.” We come to the foot of the Cross and witness the wonderful sacrifice of our Savior in which our sin was finished. We receive the resurrected Body and Blood of Christ which draws us up into new life. Are you prepared to lose that because you don’t like or don’t agree with some teaching or two on morality? If Christ is physically present there in the Eucharist, how you could bear to lose Him? Trust in Him. Only Him. Spend some time in His presence. Please, don’t miss out. He loves you, longs for you, and waits for you. The whole point of our faith is Him and truly sharing His love we’ve experienced.

I will pray for you.
Pax tecum.

 

[Zundrah]

SOME things can change, others cannot. If it is a doctrine or dogma it cannot be changed because that is a matter of truth. There is development of truth, which refers to how we understand some things. Cremation was considered a sin because it was used in the Middle Ages by some who burned “heretics” at the stake because it was believed they could not be resurrected from the dead. We’ve come to understand things a little better and realize this will not be the case. Smoking in itself is NOT a sin but if one is smoking so much that it will obviously damage their health or that person has a health condition which will be aggravated by smoking. Now that we know more about smoking, one COULD make an argument for it being a mortal sin, but then again, habituality of a sin can reduce culpability.

From your posts, it sounds like you converted to Catholicism (please correct me if I’m wrong). If you really do leave the Church, do you realize what you’re losing? You’re losing the Sacraments, the graces that come from them; you’re losing the teaching authority of the Church, from which we can have a certainty of what our faith says; you’re losing communion with the Church that Christ founded on the earth; you’re going back to the wilderness where food is scarce and nothing is certain and you’re ultimately alone. Don’t do that.

And most of all, you will lose the Eucharist. The Eucharist is Christ - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. He is physically present there. At Mass, just as he told his disciples at the Last Supper, he tells us “I have longed to have this meal with you.” We come to the foot of the Cross and witness the wonderful sacrifice of our Savior in which our sin was finished. We receive the resurrected Body and Blood of Christ which draws us up into new life. Are you prepared to lose that because you don’t like or don’t agree with some teaching or two on morality? If Christ is physically present there in the Eucharist, how you could bear to lose Him? Trust in Him. Only Him. Spend some time in His presence. Please, don’t miss out. He loves you, longs for you, and waits for you. The whole point of our faith is Him and truly sharing His love we’ve experienced.

I will pray for you.
Pax tecum.

I can leave that, I just don’t want to.

Zundrah, I’ve been following the threads you’ve been posting in the last day or so, and it’s clear that, on certain matters, you do not actually understand the truth. Whether that’s just a simple rejection of something you don’t like or it simply hasn’t been explained well enough to you, I don’t know. What is certain, however, is you do not understand either the topic or what truth is. The truth is the truth; it is TRUE whether you like it or not and, as Catholics, we need to be submissive to the teachings of the Church, ask for God’s grace to accept and eventually understand these teachings.

This is a bit far fetched, since I have gone out of my way to understand the teachings, the point is that I don’t see it as truth but I understand it still, I just don’t agree with it. I can read what is right in front of me.

I simply wanted to confirm that what I perceived the church to be teaching it in fact was teaching. That’s all I needed. I’m not making a fuss over it and I’m not complaining. It is my problem and not anyone else’s.

 

[mark_a]

 

[Castello]

Comrades in arms? You seem to think I am hunting for a group of people to have a good bash at the catholic church with.

Would you go to someone’s home and bash their mother?

I suggest you pray.

 

[Zundrah]

Would you go to someone’s home and bash their mother?

I suggest you pray.

I find your post very disturbing and lacking in any meaning or relevance.

 

[Castello]

I find your post very disturbing and lacking in any meaning or relevance.

You come here to a place that is hosted and paid for by Catholics and say you want to have a bash at Holy Mother Church.

That is rude.

Go bash the Church on a site that atheists pay for.

 

[Zundrah]

You come here to a place that is hosted and paid for by Catholics and say you want to have a bash at Holy Mother Church.

That is rude.

Go bash the Church on a site that atheists pay for.

Correction, it is you that said I want to. Implying something will not make it a fact.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

You come here to a place that is hosted and paid for by Catholics and say you want to have a bash at Holy Mother Church.

That is rude.

Go bash the Church on a site that atheists pay for.

Castello, I cannot find any evidence from Zundrah’s posts here that he/she wants to bash the Catholic Church. I suggest you either show us your evidence for this or cease and desist your accusations, or I will call on the assistance of the moderators here.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

I simply wanted to confirm that what I perceived the church to be teaching it in fact was teaching. That’s all I needed. I’m not making a fuss over it and I’m not complaining. It is my problem and not anyone else’s.

OK, if that’s your only problem then

1. Go buy your own copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church or bookmark this website: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
2. If you have any problems with any teachings of the Catholic Church, pray first, then read the Catechism about those problems.
3. If you have still have any problems you may ask about them here or (better) ask a faithful, orthodox Catholic priest you trust about them.

 

[TEPO]

+JMJ+

Castello, I cannot find any evidence from Zundrah’s posts here that he/she wants to bash the Catholic Church.

Nor can I.

 

[St_Francis]

I find it amazing that people who have told me they almost left the church over something they couldn’t agree with always seem to have remained just by one method alone; they put trust and faith into the Church and that all will make sense eventually. It’s like a human instinct for Catholics.

Thank you, it’s never fully over. Hope is always around.

So many post between your reply and the end that I am replying without reading them all, so I apologize if someone else wrote this.

My husband is tryin to build some sort of electrical thing. I have No Clue!!! what it’s all about! But I have faith that he will build it, even tho I don’t understand it.

But the reason I have faith in my husband is that I have found him to be trustworthy. If some total stranger on a train told me exactly what my husband told me, I would be a lot more skeptical, because I don’t know that guy on the train.

So wrt the the Church, it for me it is easy to have faith in an area I don’t understand, because of all the other areas which have worked out. It is not a “blind faith,”'it is a faith for which I have good reason to believe.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

So many post between your reply and the end that I am replying without reading them all, so I apologize if someone else wrote this.

My husband is tryin to build some sort of electrical thing. I have No Clue!!! what it’s all about! But I have faith that he will build it, even tho I don’t understand it.

But the reason I have faith in my husband is that I have found him to be trustworthy. If some total stranger on a train told me exactly what my husband told me, I would be a lot more skeptical, because I don’t know that guy on the train.

So wrt the the Church, it for me it is easy to have faith in an area I don’t understand, because of all the other areas which have worked out. It is not a “blind faith,”'it is a faith for which I have good reason to believe.

Indeed

The main reason I am still a Catholic is that I am amazed by how the Church seems to know all the answers to life’s difficult questions and be proven to be correct over the centuries. The greatest evidence for me with regards to this is Humanae Vitae.

This encyclical was written by a pope, Paul VI, who was historically shown to be weak willed. His predecessor, Pope John XXIII, made the Pontifical Commission on Birth Control to explore the morality of the artificial birth control methods being revolutionized at that time. Upon his predecessor’s death, Pope Paul VI expanded the commission from six to 72 comprised of theologians and physicians from around the world.

The commission’s report overwhelmingly supported the morality of the “Pill” and other artificial birth control methods, with only four priests from the commission dissenting. Nevertheless, Pope Paul VI rejected the commission’s report, and then issued the encyclical Humanae Vitae (Latin Of Human Life, subtitled “On the Regulation of Birth”) in July 25, 1968, which upheld the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church on birth control, marriage, and sex, rejected the artificial birth control methods as morally unsound, and accepted the natural family planning methods being developed at that time as morally acceptable.

What is amazing about this encyclical is paragraph 17 onwards, which speculated on the possible effects of accepting the artificial birth control methods. Each and every one of those possible effects were proven correct, as if they were prophecies. That thoroughly impressed me. Don’t believe me? Read them here: vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

When I was in grade school, the Church taught that Capital Punishment was just fine. Now, years later, it teaches that Capital Punishment is not so fine. Which am I supposed to agree with?

The Church teaches that the state has a right to Capital Punishment, but appeals to clemency if the state has the ability to protect the public from the criminal’s threat to society.

When I was in grade school the Church taught that it was a mortal sin to get a tattoo (you were mutilating your body). Now I see on this forum that it is not a sin to get a tattoo. Which is correct?

Having a tattoo is stupid, since it marks up the body which does not belong to man but to God. The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not address tattoos, but traditionally it still teaches it is wrong, and does not please God (Leviticus 19:28). Despite what individuals here or there in the Church may opine, it is still wrong. In most cases it’s also quite vain.

When I was in grade school, smoking was fine. Now it seems to be a sin against the 5th Commandment because you would not be taking proper care of your physical and bodily well being.

The dangers of smoking were not known as well known as they are now.​

http://i.pbase.com/o6/21/571721/1/81205080.o3cdgn8q.Ad_Camels_425H.jpg

Ages ago, the Church forbade Usury, which was charging interest on a loan. Now you don’t hear about that any more.

Usury is still wrong; that’s the excessive interest on a loan which creditors demand from borrowers, and that still happens today. But interest on a loan is Biblical. Just read the parable of the talents which Jesus speaks about in Matt. 25:25-27 and Luke 19:22-23

When I was in grade school, it was a mortal sin to cremate someone. Now it’s fine.

Cremation was wrong because many denied the doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead, but today it is allowed as long as a person who wants a Catholic burial does not deny the reality of the Resurrection of the dead.

So if someone has a problem with some of the above teachings, which teaching should they choose to believe in?

Simply find out the truth and choose that one. Don’t get a tattoo, quit smoking, believe in the Resurrection, and hind forgiveness in your heart. And most of all, listen to Christ as He speaks through His Church. Read the Bible and study the Catechism

If someone disagrees with a Church teaching, I think that is normal, and I don’t lose sleep over it.

It simply shows a lack of faith and trust in God and the true and legitimate authority given to the Church to bind and to loose things in heaven and on earth. So if you are a Catholic and snub the teachings of the Church then be prepared for a no-so-favorable judgment of your soul. You may be spending extra time in Purgatory to say the least. Not losing any sleep over disregarding Church teaching while calling one self a Catholic is a spiritual tragedy. Now watch this video to get a glimpse of what to expect at your judgment.

 

[TEPO]

The *Cafeteria Catholic *believes his conscience over Church teaching, but still calls himself Catholic and gets communion.

The Protestant gives up on the Church -he realizes his views are in opposition to Church teaching, so he in turn believes that Church teaching must be wrong.

The* Dead Catholic *Believes, loves, and respects Church teaching, and is ashamed when he does wrong, but does it anyway. He refrains from communion but still goes to Church.

The best of these in my opinion is the Dead Catholic.

 

[Luvtosew]

The Church teaches that the state has a right to Capital Punishment, but appeals to clemency if the state has the ability to protect the public from the criminal’s threat to society.

Having a tattoo is stupid, since it marks up the body which does not belong to man but to God. The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not address tattoos, but traditionally it still teaches it is wrong, and does not please God (Leviticus 19:28). Despite what individuals here or there in the Church may opine, it is still wrong. In most cases it’s also quite vain.

The dangers of smoking were not known as well known as they are now.​

http://i.pbase.com/o6/21/571721/1/81205080.o3cdgn8q.Ad_Camels_425H.jpg

Usury is still wrong; that’s the excessive interest on a loan which creditors demand from borrowers, and that still happens today. But interest on a loan is Biblical. Just read the parable of the talents which Jesus speaks about in Matt. 25:25-27 and Luke 19:22-23

Cremation was wrong because many denied the doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead, but today it is allowed as long as a person who wants a Catholic burial does not deny the reality of the Resurrection of the dead.

Simply find out the truth and choose that one. Don’t get a tattoo, quit smoking, believe in the Resurrection, and hind forgiveness in your heart. And most of all, listen to Christ as He speaks through His Church. Read the Bible and study the Catechism

It simply shows a lack of faith and trust in God and the true and legitimate authority given to the Church to bind and to loose things in heaven and on earth. So if you are a Catholic and snub the teachings of the Church then be prepared for a no-so-favorable judgment of your soul. You may be spending extra time in Purgatory to say the least. Not losing any sleep over disregarding Church teaching while calling one self a Catholic is a spiritual tragedy. Now watch this video to get a glimpse of what to expect at your judgment.

Cremation was wrong because many denied the doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead, but today it is allowed as long as a person who wants a Catholic burial does not deny the reality of the Resurrection of the dead.

I had to comment on this cremation one, even in the days of Paul he was teaching
Resurrection, so when did they believe the body truely resurrected?

I also wanted to say being a cradle Catholic myself I agree with the above poster, unless one was really in the loop, remember no internet and cable EWTN, it was hard to keep up with stuff and changes.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I admit that I still struggle with the Church’s teachings on artifical birth control. I am reading about it more to educate myself and I’m really trying to reconcile my thoughts with that which the Church teaches.

For a long time I was Catholic ‘in name only’, but I am trying to fully find my way back.

If you want to have a life-changing experience by realizing the great evil which Artificial Contraception has brought into the world just listen to this online MP3 by Dr. Janet E Smith.

PART 1

PART 2

Here is also a brief video with Dr. Smith

 

[1SeekingChrist]

This is a bit far fetched, since I have gone out of my way to understand the teachings, the point is that I don’t see it as truth but I understand it still, I just don’t agree with it. I can read what is right in front of me.

I simply wanted to confirm that what I perceived the church to be teaching it in fact was teaching. That’s all I needed. I’m not making a fuss over it and I’m not complaining. It is my problem and not anyone else’s.

I would still recommend what I suggested in the last paragraph. Don’t ask whether the teaching is true or not right now. Don’t fight with the powers of the Church. Go before Christ truly present in the Eucharist (whether in the tabernacle or in adoration if you can), genuinely open your heart to Him, and ask Him one question: Is the Catholic Church the true Church on earth, YOUR church? Then wait for His response. If he says no, go ahead, do whatever you desire for then near anything is permissible. But if he says yes, you must drop your pride and repent of your arrogance, admit that perhaps the 2000 years of phenomenal minds and guiding of the Holy Spirit know more than you and return home. I am NOT saying you are arrogant, I am simply presenting the two potential scenarios and it is up to you to find out the truth. You have already made up your mind so no amount of us convincing you otherwise will help. You must go to Christ and ask for His Word.

EDIT:
I just wanted to add one thing. When I converted, the one thing that made me desire to come into the Church was the Eucharist. I realized that IF the Eucharist is really Jesus physically present then, even if ALL the other teachings of the Church were wrong, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, I actually did not care because there, in the Catholic Church, physically, Jesus, GOD is. The Eucharist being true also happens to validate the Priesthood, Apostolic Succession, the Magisterium and the Papacy, thus every other teaching, but even if it did not, I would still have come in. Think about that a little.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

**I had to comment on this cremation one, even in the days of Paul he was teaching
Resurrection, so when did they believe the body truely resurrected?
** On the Last Day, at the end of time.

 

[Luvtosew]

The *Cafeteria Catholic *believes his conscience over Church teaching, but still calls himself Catholic and gets communion.

**Does that mean he is sinning against the Lord or just doesn’t believe in some of the non essential teachings of the church, like the assumption of Mary, Purgatory, Praying to Saints, etc.**The Protestant gives up on the Church -he realizes his views are in opposition to Church teaching, so he in turn believes that Church teaching must be wrong.

Say a Catholic no doesn’t believe in transb , and so you think its right he continues with the Church instead of going to a different faith where he can participate in the the last supper, while I add not living a sinful life.

The Dead Catholic Believes, loves, and respects Church teaching, and is ashamed when he does wrong, but does it anyway. He refrains from communion but still goes to Church.
So as long as the dead Catholic loves and respects the Church but does wrong anyway(sins) hes better than the top two?

The best of these in my opinion is the Dead Catholic.

So your saying better to stay in the Church, not receive communion, feels ashame when he/she sins but does it anyway, Thats better?

 

[1SeekingChrist]

So your saying better to stay in the Church, not receive communion, feels ashame when he/she sins but does it anyway, Thats better?

Ideally that person would frequent the sacrament of reconciliation. But yes, even if not, I believe that is better. At least you’re home then.