T
tafan
Guest
Ok, I didn’t mean to pry. I can’t help but wanting to know how and why you view these issues as so problematic; I have tried to provide quite a bit of material on one of them, why is that it is so unconvincing?
- Status
Z
Zundrah
Guest
I don’t know if I’m prepared to go into it. I only desired answers, not an opportunity to refute or debate Catholic teaching.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
I downloaded a few of them.
T
tafan
Guest
Well, that being the case, I will say good bye until you have more questions. I am not looking to debate you, just to convince you. And if I don’t know what is unconvincing, it is difficult to do.
One has to eventually be willing to express one’s reservations to someone, and allow them to address those points specifically. Just taking in information and assuming one is capably of processing it accurately and properly shows a lack of humility, IMO. Too many teachings are based on many other teachings, and if those basics are not understood, it is easy to come to the wrong conclusions.
God bless
G
Gabriel_Serafin
Guest
Ultimately as a Protestant you must understand that you have put your faith and trust in the teachings of men such as Martin Luther, the father of Protestantism and and ex-Catholic priest who took it upon himself to remove books from the Bible and teach new doctrines. My faith and trust is in Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Church He founded, not the opinions of mere men. Thus I sincerely invite and encourage you to listen to the links I provided, especially those by Archbishop Fulton Sheen.
Realize that regardless of the scoundrels, hypocrites, liars and perverts in the clergy and laity, the Church will always teach the truth, because it is guided by the Holy Spirit. The wolves among the sheep and the weeds among the wheat have always been there, beginning with Judas. This did not affect the infallible teachings of the Church.
M
mlz
Guest
I’m just wondering why this concerns you being protestant? Are you just curious or are you trying to make a point? I’m not sure what your motivation is? I’m not saying your motivation is bad, but it does make a person wonder…?
Thanks,
mlz
Z
Zundrah
Guest
How does it not concern my status?
Have I tried to make a point? No.
I asked what some Catholics don’t agree with and yet why they remain. Do you see me working on their weak points to try and have them leave the Church? Not at all. It’s an opening to discussion and nothing devious.
Look at that last sentence;
Dichotomy much? You can lecture me for something I have done, but not for something that you assume I will do.
Now I didn’t open this thread with the idea that I’d start bringing up my own problems. Yet after a while, I felt compelled to ask some people here a few questions in order to get my head around what has been on my mind lately. I’m not here to protest or express my beliefs.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
I reject all of the above lost sheep. I stand by everything the Church teaches except what I’ve brought up here recently.
I will always only learn from the Church and I would never trust anything from anywhere else.
I will always keep trying and not let this simply remain as it is.
I wouldn’t denounce Christ’s rock for the sake of a few (or a lot, either way) of evil or mildly wrong doing people in the Church’s structure.
S
St_Francis
Guest
I admit that this is a tough one, but consider what it says in Sacred Scripture: wives, obey your husbands… husbands, love your wives as Christ loves His Church…
How did Christ love His Church? Betrayed, arrested, scourged, mocked, made to carry His own cross to His death, stripped, nailed to a cross, and killed.
And what were His first words on the instrument of His death? Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
Christ was God Incarnate. At any moment, He could have called down legions of angels to protect Him; He could have called up soldiers from the stones on the ground if He had chosen. And yet, He chose to submit. Why?
He chose to submit out of love. Love for each of us. Despite our failings, our sinfulness, our weakness, the pain we bring to Him, He *chose *to do this to open the gates of Heaven so we could be with Him forever.
We always have control; we always have a choice. We can say no to our husbands, we can say no to God. We can say, as Lucifer did, Non serviam! We can refuse to submit.
Christ submitted to terrible, torturous agony–out of love for us. He accepted God’s will as a choice, as a decision He made and He said it 3 times.
He did that not based on His feelings at the time but based on the relationship He wanted to build with us. He did in not based on force but on understanding the consequences.
We choose all the time based on our momentary feelings, not considering the full eternal ramifications of our actions. But when we do the right thing, even if we don’t want to, it is still our choice, annd in fact we are more in control of ourselves when we choose based on our wills rather than our feelings.
N
Nate13
Guest
Exactly. You can only express true love and enjoy true freedom when you are detached from everything.
J
Jim_Dandy
Guest
Zundrah,
Priests are alter Christus – they act in the place of Christ. It is Christ who confects the Eucharist, who forgives sins, who anoints the sick, etc., through His priest. The Church is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:25-33; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:9-14, 22:17). The priest’s spouse is the Church. Surely you can see that the Bride of Christ can’t have a female spouse. Please read this:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html
If Christ had wanted priestesses in His Church, He could have made his Mother the first, don’tchathink?.
Have you revealed whether you are a Protestant who has gone through RCIA but did not become a Catholic? Or, have you gone through RCIA, became a Catholic (apparently with your fingers crossed), and have rejected the Church over the issues which I think are still not clear to many on this forum? Or, are those questions you don’t care to answer?
You said the priest in RCIA didn’t want to answer your questions unless they pertained to the subject matter of the class that was in session. He wasn’t refusing to answer your questions; he was merely asking you to bring them up at the appropriate time. Many teachers have this requirement. Off-subject questions disrupt the flow of information the teacher is presenting. You could have asked your questions privately anytime if you thought there would have been no occasion to ask them. Or you could ask them now, on this forum, but you seem reluctant.
Peace be with you.
Priests are alter Christus – they act in the place of Christ. It is Christ who confects the Eucharist, who forgives sins, who anoints the sick, etc., through His priest. The Church is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:25-33; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 21:9-14, 22:17). The priest’s spouse is the Church. Surely you can see that the Bride of Christ can’t have a female spouse. Please read this:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_22051994_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html
If Christ had wanted priestesses in His Church, He could have made his Mother the first, don’tchathink?.
Have you revealed whether you are a Protestant who has gone through RCIA but did not become a Catholic? Or, have you gone through RCIA, became a Catholic (apparently with your fingers crossed), and have rejected the Church over the issues which I think are still not clear to many on this forum? Or, are those questions you don’t care to answer?
You said the priest in RCIA didn’t want to answer your questions unless they pertained to the subject matter of the class that was in session. He wasn’t refusing to answer your questions; he was merely asking you to bring them up at the appropriate time. Many teachers have this requirement. Off-subject questions disrupt the flow of information the teacher is presenting. You could have asked your questions privately anytime if you thought there would have been no occasion to ask them. Or you could ask them now, on this forum, but you seem reluctant.
Peace be with you.
C
Carlan
Guest
Are you the same Zundrah who hung around two or three years back having fun with us all? I asked once, and someone said , Yeh, she finally came on over. Did you? But then I see you identify as Protestant. I bet I know girl, you’ve just missed us and you are back for more fun and games. Right!
.
Peace, Carlan
.Peace, Carlan
Z
Zundrah
Guest
I swam. Long story.Are you the same Zundrah who hung around two or three years back having fun with us all? I asked once, and someone said , Yeh, she finally came on over. Did you? But then I see you identify as Protestant. I bet I know girl, you’ve just missed us and you are back for more fun and games. Right!
Peace, Carlan
R
ryecroft
Guest
I’m seriously asking this question - on here the words “ex communication” get thrown around a lot - you say that if you are excommunicated, then you are no longer Catholic, but I have seen it debated on here adnauseum that once you are baptized Catholic, you can not - not be Catholic any longer - you’re Catholic for the rest of your life whether you want to be or not. So is this right or not?
God Bless
Rye
G
Gorgias
Guest
“Not”. See the Catechism, #1272. Once baptized, nothing removes that indelible mark. Also see the Catechism #1463 – what excommunication does is to prevent a person from participating in the sacraments, until absolved of the sin and the excommunication lifted.
C
Carlan
Guest
That is it! The way I look at it and I rather believe most Catholics do, is that a when a Christian commits very serious sin ( abortion,murder,Hitlers atrocities as an example)and never repents and seeks forgiveness he is considered excommunicated and we understand what happens in that case. Now, of course, when a person is on their death bed with out access to a Priest for Absolution, with perfect contrition in his heart ,God is merciful.
Peace, Carlan
C
chaunceygardner
Guest
I apologize for jumping in here, but I did not see this thread until now. Without going into personal specifics, I will make a couple of observations.
First, many people “remain” Catholic despite disagreeing with the Church’s teachings since to them there is more important, even more critical, reasons for being Catholic than agreeing with a doctrine. The Church encompasses the followers of Jesus and His Gospel, who demonstrate that allegiance through their actions and lives, not by just what they believe. Catholics who may not agree with every teaching of their Church (or totally understand or care about them) don’t see that fact as making them any less of a Catholic. They ARE Catholic, based on their Baptism, on the Sacraments they have received, and on their identity.
Second, there are many, many Catholics who just DON’T KNOW what their Church teaches. Most Catholics have, at best, an elementary understanding of their faith (most on this forum are the exception to that “rule”). They have not grown in their faith or understanding of God and the Gospel since childhood. And, unfortunately, they generally are not expected to. For that reason, and also due to lack of interest in dogma and doctrines, many Catholics aren’t concerned about Church teachings. But they still see themselves as “good” Catholics, again based on that simple level of understanding that they have.
Third, there are many Catholics (including a few I have encountered here) who insist that the Church teaches what it actually doesn’t. They think that because a saint or doctor of the Church said something 500 or 1000 years ago that it must be Church doctrine. Or they follow one doctrinal interpretation that they like over other interpretations that they don’t. Or they don’'t consider some of what the Church actually teaches today as valid, but prefer to abide by earlier teachings (or interpretation of teachings) which the Church no longer holds. I am not sure why that is the case, but the evidence for it is all over the place. Again, for most Sunday-go-to-Mass Catholics, none of this is important. They don’t care whether the ideas of Aquinas are more valid than those of Origen, or of Augustine, or of a Gregory, or of Karl Rahner.
Finally, many Catholics are such in name and appearance only (one could call them “shallow Catholics”, lacking real depth). They do not participate in the life of their parish community, they stress the initiation Sacraments but not much else (have the baby baptized but don’t actually go to Mass), do not think much about their faith outside of Church (when they do attend), or live the Gospel in their daily lives. Are those people really Catholic? I don’t know, but there are a lot of them that are labeled as such.
As to the survey, I could not answer it since the options were so limited and none seemed to apply to me or many other Catholics I know (FYI, I am a Catholic, despite what many seem to think or infer from my past posts). I think the overall point I want to make is that many Protestants (and a fair number of Catholics) don’t understand the “attachment” that some people have to the Catholic Church, despite their not being 100% in agreement with every teaching, or questioning certain practices. Most people who leave the Church do not do so because of doctrines but for other reasons. Survey after survey shows that. Those of us who may question or disagree with some Church teachings or practices stick with Her, simply because it is our faith home, too, and Jesus invites us to be here…and I, for one, cannot say no to His call.
V
vsedriver
Guest
J
Jim_Dandy
Guest
Excommunication means one is prohibited from receiving the sacraments until one repents of the cause of the excommunication. It doesn’t mean that one ceases to be Catholic.
One may be formally excommunicated or excommunicate oneself by certain behaviours, which is much more common.
One may be formally excommunicated or excommunicate oneself by certain behaviours, which is much more common.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
What options would you have put there?
You remind me of someone.
Is there any reason as to why you don’t have “Catholic” in your religious title?
- Status