AOL article: Los Angeles diocese priest abuse

[convert_2000]

The release of files will keep everyone writing about this.

Catholic League president William Donohue addressed the public release of priest personnel files in Los Angeles today:

“There is so much blame to go around. Among the culprits are the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, some priests, many therapists, some lawyers, some alleged victims and some in the media…

catholicleague.org/05press_releases/quarter%204/051013_priestfilesLA.htm

 

[convert_2000]

Legatus:

Don’t be in too much of a hurry to protect the Church.

Priests are not the Church, Christ is.

 

[buffalo]

JOHNYJ:

Cardinal Mahony has been paying with your money High priced lawyers for 3 years to keep what he did in the scandal secret.]
When the payments are made to the victims again it will not be any of his money.

In America everyone is afforded due process, including clergy. This should not be a witchhunt but a fair legal process that gets to the facts.

 

[buffalo]

Legatus:

Don’t be in too much of a hurry to protect the Church. That’s one of the causes of all the trouble. I personally know of someone who was abused by a priest. When he went to that priest’s superior the superior warned him to keep it secret to avoid damaging the reputation of the Church. the superior was subsequently made a bishop. A true faith sees the essential goodnes of the Church but is not afraid to speak out when it’s leaders are wrong.

That is the teaching of the Church, avoid scandal and settle your issues in private.

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

That is the teaching of the Church, avoid scandal and settle your issues in private.

You are so right, and that is where the crime is. Cover up their dirty little secrets and allow thousands more to be molested. If they would have come forward and gone to the police right away, think of the lives it could have saved. A coverup is unconsionable.

 

[buffalo]

snoopy:

You are so right, and that is where the crime is. Cover up their dirty little secrets and allow thousands more to be molested. If they would have come forward and gone to the police right away, think of the lives it could have saved. A coverup is unconsionable.

I believe that the biggest mistake was believing in the gods of psychiatry and letting them counsel and then advise the Bishops as to their fitness to serve. This reliance made a truly sinful and evil crime relativistic. These gods of psychiatry convinced the powers that be that this condition could be cured, and then they advised the Bishops who was cured.

This coupled with allowing homosexuals in the priesthood allowed for peer and hierarchical coverup.

One has to remember the times and nature of the culture at the time.

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

I believe that the biggest mistake was believing in the gods of psychiatry and letting them counsel and then advise the Bishops as to their fitness to serve. This reliance made a truly sinful and evil crime relativistic. These gods of psychiatry convinced the powers that be that this condition could be cured, and then they advised the Bishops who was cured.

This coupled with allowing homosexuals in the priesthood allowed for peer and hierarchical coverup.

One has to remember the times and nature of the culture at the time.

I’m glad you brought this up. While I was a child in 1969, the man who delivered gas to our farm was caught molesting some of the neighborhood children. He would bribe them with candy. He was reported to the police, stood trial and went to prison for about 5 years. This was in 1969 in a small town that was about as unsophisticated as you can get. A farming community of less than 1,000 people. Now, if this small town all those years ago could figure out that molesting children was a criminal offense, why couldn’t bishops and cardinals who had doctorates in theology and psychology and more education than I could ever dream of not figure that out. Or at least, turn the matter over to the police so they could sort it out. I don’t believe for a minute that the bishops didn’t think this was a criminal offense. They had to be some of the most intelligent, well educated, saavy men in history to make it to the top of one of the most closed organizations in the world. They were not stupid. It just baffles me that anyone would use that excuse. As I said before, If a small farming community in the late 60’s could figure out molesting children was a crime, why couldn’t some of the most educated brilliant men in the world figure that out also.

 

[buffalo]

snoopy:

I’m glad you brought this up. While I was a child in 1969, the man who delivered gas to our farm was caught molesting some of the neighborhood children. He would bribe them with candy. He was reported to the police, stood trial and went to prison for about 5 years. This was in 1969 in a small town that was about as unsophisticated as you can get. A farming community of less than 1,000 people. Now, if this small town all those years ago could figure out that molesting children was a criminal offense, why couldn’t bishops and cardinals who had doctorates in theology and psychology and more education than I could ever dream of not figure that out. Or at least, turn the matter over to the police so they could sort it out. I don’t believe for a minute that the bishops didn’t think this was a criminal offense. They had to be some of the most intelligent, well educated, saavy men in history to make it to the top of one of the most closed organizations in the world. They were not stupid. It just baffles me that anyone would use that excuse. As I said before, If a small farming community in the late 60’s could figure out molesting children was a crime, why couldn’t some of the most educated brilliant men in the world figure that out also.

Simply put, common sense and intelligence do not always exist in the same package.

At an early age my mother told me what to watch for in relationships with adults.

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

Simply put, common sense and intelligence do not always exist in the same package.

At an early age my mother told me what to watch for in relationships with adults.

Lame excuse. Oh, and blaming the mother doesn’t fly either.

 

[buffalo]

snoopy:

Lame excuse. Oh, and blaming the mother doesn’t fly either.

First of all, in no way do I condone men who lust after or engage pre or post-pubescents males. Don’t get me wrong, the guilty should face punishment. The accused should be afforded due process.

The guilty will have to face a higher authority - God. Even if some got away with it, is eternity in hell enough of a punishment for you?

I do not blame mother, but parents are the first teachers. If anything has been learned through this is parents need to be ever watchful for the evil that lurks around every corner. Your clouded vision won’t allow you to understand the whole picture.

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

First of all, in no way do I condone men who lust after or engage pre or post-pubescents males. Don’t get me wrong, the guilty should face punishment. The accused should be afforded due process.

The guilty will have to face a higher authority - God. Even if some got away with it, is eternity in hell enough of a punishment for you?

I do not blame mother, but parents are the first teachers. If anything has been learned through this is parents need to be ever watchful for the evil that lurks around every corner. Your clouded vision won’t allow you to understand the whole picture.

Sorry, my vision is crystal clear. I can see this mess for what it is. The heirarchy of the Catholic Church wanting to avoid scandal at any cost, thus putting more and more children in harm’s way. Think of the lives that could have been saved if they would have just turned the predators over to the police. There is no way that bishops didn’t know molesting children was a crime. What I don’t understand are people wanting to put the careers of grown men ahead of innocent children 18 and under. I do appreciate you clarifiying that you don’t blame the mothers. In my day priests were holier than thou, and could do no wrong. Plus predators are very saavy in getting their way. Some through physical force and some through emotional force.

 

[buffalo]

snoopy:

Sorry, my vision is crystal clear. I can see this mess for what it is. The heirarchy of the Catholic Church wanting to avoid scandal at any cost, thus putting more and more children in harm’s way. Think of the lives that could have been saved if they would have just turned the predators over to the police. There is no way that bishops didn’t know molesting children was a crime. What I don’t understand are people wanting to put the careers of grown men ahead of innocent children 18 and under. I do appreciate you clarifiying that you don’t blame the mothers. In my day priests were holier than thou, and could do no wrong. Plus predators are very saavy in getting their way. Some through physical force and some through emotional force.

This leaves no room for repentance and growth. As we are all sinners there is always hope we can achieve heaven.

The pickle the Bishops now and then face is rehabilitation. Today, we believe every criminal can be rehabbed. So the courts punish the guilty, they serve their sentence and then they are released back into society.

Can a priest be rehabbed? Can he repent and be given absolution? Sure he can. How is one to know which ones will not fall again?

Do we have numbers on successful priest rehabs?

 

[koda]

snoopy:

Sorry, my vision is crystal clear. I can see this mess for what it is. The heirarchy of the Catholic Church wanting to avoid scandal at any cost, thus putting more and more children in harm’s way. Think of the lives that could have been saved if they would have just turned the predators over to the police. There is no way that bishops didn’t know molesting children was a crime. What I don’t understand are people wanting to put the careers of grown men ahead of innocent children 18 and under. I do appreciate you clarifiying that you don’t blame the mothers. In my day priests were holier than thou, and could do no wrong. Plus predators are very saavy in getting their way. Some through physical force and some through emotional force.

Well put! By covering up the crime the hierarchy aided and abetted the criminal in his activity. Criminals should go to jail - I don’t care who they are. And priests should be held to a higher standard - just as we hold police officers to a higher standard. Keeping the guilty out of jail afforded them ample opportunity to continue their activity.

I was abused at a day care facility when I was about 3. I was terrified. My abusers promised they’d kill me and my mom if I told. Of course I knew what they were doing was wrong - but at that age you don’t make rational decisions - regardless of what your mom taught you - because you are afraid.

As for rehabilitation - I’m not sure I believe sex offenders can be rehabilitated. Of course, anything is possible with God, but on average it doesn’t seem to happen.

 

[Legatus]

buffalo:

That is the teaching of the Church, avoid scandal and settle your issues in private.

Baloney! That is not the teaching of the Church although it has long been the policy. And, as with the case I referred to, the abuse continued, all of North America is scandalized and the issues are making front page headlines.

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

. So the courts punish the guilty, they serve their sentence and then they are released back into society.

My point exactly. The predators were never put through the court system. If they had been, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Their crimes were covered up and the victims were told to keep their mouths shut. I am not saying that there can be no forgiveness. I totally believe in forgiveness. It’s just as easy to forgive someone in prison as it is to forgive someone that has been shuffled to another parish.

 

[Jodi]

I believe in forgiveness but not in trying to hide the sin. A priest should be tried and convicted. Once he has paid his debt to society he could go into any number of monastic or other orders that have no contact with children while he works out his salvation. Even if we were all 100% convinced of his rehabilitation that priest should never again be allowed near the same temptation. It would like being a recovered alcoholic and working in a bar. As for those who covered it up they have some serious work to do in releasing all documents and cooperating fully with the police. I know it is hard to see buildings that many saints have donated over the years being sold to pay these judgements but I would rather this be such a lesson as we as a catholic community will never forget so that this sin does not come among us in the same way again.

 

[buffalo]

snoopy:

Sorry, my vision is crystal clear. I can see this mess for what it is. The heirarchy of the Catholic Church wanting to avoid scandal at any cost, thus putting more and more children in harm’s way. Think of the lives that could have been saved if they would have just turned the predators over to the police. There is no way that bishops didn’t know molesting children was a crime. What I don’t understand are people wanting to put the careers of grown men ahead of innocent children 18 and under.

Sure the scandal of a few has scandalized the many. There are thousands of faithful priests broadbrushed by this scandal.

I do understand any organization not wanting the acts of a few to undermine the good works of so many more. This seems to be a natural reaction. It happens every day.

Is it wrong to try to protect your reputation?

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

Sure the scandal of a few has scandalized the many. There are thousands of faithful priests broadbrushed by this scandal.

I do understand any organization not wanting the acts of a few to undermine the good works of so many more. This seems to be a natural reaction. It happens every day.

Is it wrong to try to protect your reputation?

If it means that probably thousands more children will be abused, then yes, absolutely it is wrong. A no brainer. A natural reaction is to try to protect innocent children, not throw them to the wolves. For the life of me, I can’t understand what people are thinking when they just don’t get it that this is a crime. You see it in the paper and the evening news every day. And people are put in prison for it. Why should any other organization be any different, especially one that is founded by God and designed to protect people. Faithful priests should hold their heads up high and be just as outraged as most of the rest of us are by this crime. If they did nothing wrong, then they have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[buffalo]

snoopy:

If it means that probably thousands more children will be abused, then yes, absolutely it is wrong. A no brainer. A natural reaction is to try to protect innocent children, not throw them to the wolves. For the life of me, I can’t understand what people are thinking when they just don’t get it that this is a crime. You see it in the paper and the evening news every day. And people are put in prison for it. Why should any other organization be any different, especially one that is founded by God and designed to protect people. Faithful priests should hold their heads up high and be just as outraged as most of the rest of us by this crime. If they did nothing wrong, then they have nothing to be ashamed of.

It is a crime. No question or issue there. You were asking why this happened. I am simply trying to explain it. By having a complete understanding one can look for a solution.

The solution the Church seems to have arrived at is Virtus. It is about educating on how to recognize abuse and how to avoid it.

It is impossible to screen and keep screening for every deviant behavior in any organization. The perpetrators always find a way around the screen.

Vigilance is the key.

Here is the Parent Handbook

 

[snoopy]

buffalo:

It is a crime. No question or issue there. You were asking why this happened. I am simply trying to explain it. By having a complete understanding one can look for a solution.

The solution the Church seems to have arrived at is Virtus. It is about educating on how to recognize abuse and how to avoid it.

It is impossible to screen and keep screening for every deviant behavior in any organization. The perpetrators always find a way around the screen.

Vigilance is the key.

Here is the Parent Handbook

I am not asking why the abuse happened. Sick people are all around us. I am asking why the bishops and cardinals covered up the crimes and told victims to keep their mouths shut. I am outraged about that fact. I am also outraged that a few people insist that this is no big deal. What you don’t understand is that every time you deny the abuse, or the cover up, or state that everyone is picking on the church, or whine about the money being paid out to the victims, this is another stake in their heart. The victims should never have to explain themselves or their actions, or insist it wasn’t their fault. We should all know that. And we should be in their corner. What should have happened is that the matter should have been turned over to the authorities. Now it appears that you want a solution. Don’t you understand there can never be a solution for the victims as long as you keep covering up for the perpertrators and making excuses for them? The victims need our support. They need to hear that they did no wrong, their mothers did no wrong. The priests and heirarchy did wrong. We need to rally around them and give them our sympathy and listen to their horror stories. Let them get it out. Not call them liars or criticize them for not putting a stop to it, or insist that the church was just protecting itself. We need to be there for them and maybe then, only then, in time, there can begin a healing.