AOL article: Los Angeles diocese priest abuse

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buffalo:
No. That is not true. Every diocese was independently audited.
Quote from the John Jay Report:

Surveys were returned by 195 of the 202 dioceses and eparchies, which constitutes a 97% compliance rate. Surveys were returned by approximately 60% of religious communities representing 80% of the religious priests in the United States.

Any other inaccuracies you care to clear up?

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
Quote from the John Jay Report:

Surveys were returned by 195 of the 202 dioceses and eparchies, which constitutes a 97% compliance rate. Surveys were returned by approximately 60% of religious communities representing 80% of the religious priests in the United States.

Any other inaccuracies you care to clear up?

Nohome
No. I am happy to deal with the facts, all the facts.
 
However, after looking at the John Jay Report this was a survey. I was referring to the audit. I don’t think they are the same.
 
I do believe this links backs up my gods of psychiatry statements.

From the John Jay Report: Thanks- I didn’t see this before.

Sex Offender Treatment

The same report you are quoting from states the following:

“The handwritten notes on the surverys for these latter two groups of priests detailed the continuuing efforts of diocesan and religious community leaders to respond constructively to sex abuse problems.”
 
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buffalo:
However, after looking at the John Jay Report this was a survey. I was referring to the audit. I don’t think they are the same.
Can you provide a link to the “audit” to which you refer?

The District Attorney’s Office of LA continues to request documents that the church refuses to hand over. Many believe this is because they document indictable offences. One treatment center for the priests now claims that they no longer have records (read shredded).

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
Can you provide a link to the “audit” to which you refer?

The District Attorney’s Office of LA continues to request documents that the church refuses to hand over. Many believe this is because they document indictable offences. One treatment center for the priests now claims that they no longer have records (read shredded).

Nohome
I will try to find one. I know for a fact our Diocese was audited by an independent auditer and all priest personnel files going back were turned over to them.
 
I think it was done by the Gavin Group. But I think the John Jay Report does go back 50 years so it may be one in the same.

Our diocese has had a policy since 1990 that was recently updated. I am not sure of the official policy before 1990. I will have to check on it.
 
The John Jay Report Shows the following:

Priest Subject of Substantiated Allegations:

Priest Reprimanded and Returned - 172/9.2%
Priest referred for evaluation - 918/49%
Priest given administrative leave - 699/37.3%
Priest sent to spriritual retreat - 143/7.6%
Priest sent for treatment - 998/53.3%
Priest given medical leave - 162/8.7%
Priest suspended - 852/45.5%
Priest returned to order or superior notified - 88/4.7%
No action taken - 49/2.6%
Other action taken - 444/23.7%

Priest dead or not active at time of allegation - 206/11%
Priest Resigned or Retired - 545/29.1%
Priest sought laicization - 113/6%
Priest removed from clergy - 115/6.1%

298 Priests/Deacons completely exonerated
72% of the time an allegation was made an investigation was carried out
 
From 1950 to 2002 -

$420 million was compensated to victims-
$19 Million was spent on victim treatment costs
$27 Million on priest treatment costs

these do not include the latest abuse settlement costs
 
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buffalo:
Your assumption is Cardinal Law is guilty. Was he guilty in a court of law or the court of public opinion?

Were they coverups or were they honest attempts to deal with a problem that was over their heads?

I cannot say for sure as I am not privvy to the actual goings on. Now the residual smell would lead me to believe all this was intentional. But was it really? Only God knows for sure.
No doubt this problem was way over their heads. That is why they needed to turn it over to the police and let them sort it out. Anything less would be–you guessed it–a coverup!!!
 
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snoopy:
No doubt this problem was way over their heads. That is why they needed to turn it over to the police and let them sort it out. Anything less would be–you guessed it–a coverup!!!
Given the above statistics they show that it was less of a coverup and more of a confusion. Study the John Jay Report. It is quite revealing. Quite different than I have seen the media report. Also, look at the numbers of sexual abuse in the family. There seems to be a much bigger problem there. And look at the numbers that were reported over 20 years later.
 
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buffalo:
No. That is not true. Every diocese was independently audited. The audit went back 50 years, well past the statute of limitations. That shows sincerity on the Church’s part. If not they would have fought for the 7 year statute.

This stuff that is making news again as it is progressing through the system. The media will make anti-Catholic news every time informaton is released.

Reparations - bankrupting and plundering the dioceses that were built on the charity of nonoffenders? Now the courts and lawyers smell big money and the settlements show it.
The church is making anti-Catholic news. The media is simply reporting it. Imagine for a moment that you had a little boy. Imagine that a priest, someone you held dear to your heart, a man of God and a friend and confidant raped and sodomized your little boy. What would you like to see happen? Just curious.
 
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buffalo:
Given the above statistics they show that it was less of a coverup and more of a confusion. Study the John Jay Report. It is quite revealing. Quite different than I have seen the media report. Also, look at the numbers of sexual abuse in the family. There seems to be a much bigger problem there. And look at the numbers that were reported over 20 years later.
OMG!!! Confusion you say!!! I wonder what the victims would say if you called their rape a matter a confusion? What is exactly confusing about it? Gee, I’m confused, should I contact the police about this rape or not?
 
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snoopy:
The church is making anti-Catholic news. The media is simply reporting it. Imagine for a moment that you had a little boy. Imagine that a priest, someone you held dear to your heart, a man of God and a friend and confidant raped and sodomized your little boy. What would you like to see happen? Just curious.
Nope! The Catholic Church is making news. All kinds of news. Some good and some bad. The press is exploiting the bad news to further its anti-Catholic agenda.

To answer your question. I would first feel angry. I would beat myself up asking what I did to allow the circumstances to happen. Did I risk my child by too much trust, should I have recognized the signs, how did I let my child down.

Then I would try to get to the facts. With a child that can be difficult as they can spin a yarn. If the facts look real, then I would have to take action. I would report this to the authorities.

Now you have to understand that is today’s answer in light of all we know about abuse, today’s secular and pornographic culture.

If it happened 30 or 40 years ago, without the benefit of today’s knowledge I probably would go to the Pastor and insist the perpetrator get help.

Something similar happened in our family. A 12 yr old male baby sitter who was exposed to pornography and was a little behind IQ wise fondled his younger girl cousins. The victims parents wanted to press charges, but the families agreed that if he apologized and had no more contact with the girls they would not report it to the police.

Counseling was attended by all the parties including parents. What has happened is the boy has essentially been ostacized by the family and is not doing very well. There has been no forgiveness.
 
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snoopy:
OMG!!! Confusion you say!!! I wonder what the victims would say if you called their rape a matter a confusion? What is exactly confusing about it? Gee, I’m confused, should I contact the police about this rape or not?
First of all not all of these were rape. Some were fondling or touching. Let’s not categorize all of them the same way.

The act is not confusing, What was confusing was the consequence and action the authorities should take. Give me a break. You are reading way too much into the points I am making.
 
In the Great movie Judgement at Nuremburg.Spencer Tracy asks his house servants about what the Nazi’s did. They told him, " we knew nothing ". It was baloney when the germans said it and its baloney when our bishops say it.
They knew and they helped.Now there throwing priests to the wolfes, the guilty and the innocent all to protect themselves !
The only people that aren’t being punished,by the church are the bishops that helped the pedophiles.The only people not loosing any money in this,are the bishops.Think abou it.
 
They didn’t know it was serious ? this is a defense ?
A priest goes to school for what 8 years a Jesuit 14. A bishop usualy has a bunch of degrees. They all study the Bible closely eespecialy the Gospels,you’d think.
Alas they all missed the part that says that for those that lead chlldren to sin, DEATH IS TOO GOOD FOR THEM !
They preach incesently about abortion and birth control and Gay marriage.All things Jesus never mentioned,Leading children to sin ,something he did talk about,they don’t mention or preach on, a bit strange ? And they still don’t mention it !
 
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buffalo:
Your assumption is Cardinal Law is guilty. Was he guilty in a court of law or the court of public opinion?

Were they coverups or were they honest attempts to deal with a problem that was over their heads?

I cannot say for sure as I am not privvy to the actual goings on. Now the residual smell would lead me to believe all this was intentional. But was it really? Only God knows for sure.
All the information I have seen points to Law’s guilt. The police should have been brought in - what was happening was a crime. Instead of getting velvet glove treatment, these men should have been prosectuted. We expect more from priests, just like we expect more from cops. A higher standard. And we aren’t just talking about 1 or 2 cases here - there were many, many cases over years. These victims are scarred for life. I was sexually molested when I was 3 and I can tell you that it doesn’t just go away - it bothers you for a long, long time.
 
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Nohome:
Not all dioceses cooperated with the audit. Not all were truthful or entirely truthful.

LA is in the news because they are witholding information. Open the books and lets indict some of these crooks!

The courts smell no money, justice is blind. Yes, lawyers see the potential for profit, but the church made this problem and is culpable. The church bankrupted itself, morally, spiritually and now financially.

Nohome
The press is reporting the truth - the actions of the Chruch are indefensible. It isn’t anti-Catholic bias if it’s true. Years go by and still the foot dragging and excuses. You can see by their refusal to cooperate just how sorry they are. There are people who point out our faults and tell us to be better Christians. I’m afraid their credibility with me is pretty well shot. Clearly they care more about victimizers than they do the victims. These are CRIMES we are talking about. People seem to think that because the crimals were preists somehow the crimes weren’t so bad. Not true - they were worse! Quit making excuses for these people - you wouldn’t do it for other child molesters.
 
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