AOL article: Los Angeles diocese priest abuse

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buffalo:
First of all not all of these were rape. Some were fondling or touching. Let’s not categorize all of them the same way.
You are so right, lacivious acts with a minor is nothing compared to rape. Get real, we are talking about sex crimes in the Church!
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buffalo:
The act is not confusing, What was confusing was the consequence and action the authorities should take. Give me a break. You are reading way too much into the points I am making.
No confusion here. Dial 911 and turn them over to the police. Laws against sex crimes involving children were on the books long before 1950, the bishops were trying to shove this under the rug.

Nohome
 
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buffalo:
Please review the stats in post #68 and #69.
I’ve read the entire John Jay report. I don’t understand how these stats support your position. Please elaborate.

Nohome
 
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Nohome:
I’ve read the entire John Jay report. I don’t understand how these stats support your position. Please elaborate.

Nohome
Maybe I don’t understand. What do you think my position is?
 
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buffalo:
Nope! The Catholic Church is making news. All kinds of news. Some good and some bad. The press is exploiting the bad news to further its anti-Catholic agenda.

To answer your question. I would first feel angry. I would beat myself up asking what I did to allow the circumstances to happen. Did I risk my child by too much trust, should I have recognized the signs, how did I let my child down.

Then I would try to get to the facts. With a child that can be difficult as they can spin a yarn. If the facts look real, then I would have to take action. I would report this to the authorities.

Now you have to understand that is today’s answer in light of all we know about abuse, today’s secular and pornographic culture.

If it happened 30 or 40 years ago, without the benefit of today’s knowledge I probably would go to the Pastor and insist the perpetrator get help.

Something similar happened in our family. A 12 yr old male baby sitter who was exposed to pornography and was a little behind IQ wise fondled his younger girl cousins. The victims parents wanted to press charges, but the families agreed that if he apologized and had no more contact with the girls they would not report it to the police.

Counseling was attended by all the parties including parents. What has happened is the boy has essentially been ostacized by the family and is not doing very well. There has been no forgiveness.
So 30 or 40 years ago you would have not gone to the police. You honestly didn’t know that molesting children was a crime in 1965 or 1975? I don’t believe you. Everyone knew it was a crime even back then.
 
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snoopy:
So 30 or 40 years ago you would have not gone to the police. You honestly didn’t know that molesting children was a crime in 1965 or 1975? I don’t believe you. Everyone knew it was a crime even back then.
All crimes are not reported. That is true then, it is true now. Many that are reported are not pursued as the victim does not press charges.

I do not know what world you are living in if you truly beleive all crimes are reported.
 
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buffalo:
All crimes are not reported. That is true then, it is true now. Many that are reported are not pursued as the victim does not press charges.

I do not know what world you are living in if you truly beleive all crimes are reported.
What??? When did I say that I believed all crimes are reported? In fact, I have been saying all along that the crimes of priests have NOT been reported, that’s what I am outraged about.How does this relate to the question that; how you did not not know in 1965 or 1975 that molesting children was not a crime? Everyone knew that.
 
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snoopy:
What??? When did I say that I believed all crimes are reported? In fact, I have been saying all along that the crimes of priests have NOT been reported, that’s what I am outraged about.
Who is responsible to report a crime? the victim or someone else?
 
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buffalo:
Who is responsible to report a crime? the victim or someone else?
IMHO the child would more than likely go to an adult. They would then be responsible to report it to the church heirarchy and the police, or they both could report it to the police. It really doesn’t matter who reports it as long as it does get reported. BTW, Nice dodge on my question about whether you believe that 30-40 years ago child molesting was a crime or not. I guess you don’t want to go there.
 
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snoopy:
IMHO the child would more than likely go to an adult. They would then be responsible to report it to the church heirarchy and the police, or they both could report it to the police. It really doesn’t matter who reports it as long as it does get reported. BTW, Nice dodge on my question about whether you believe that 30-40 years ago child molesting was a crime or not. I guess you don’t want to go there.
So it is the first responsibilty of the parent or the of age individual to report a crime to the police. What should one assume if either of them do not report the crime to the police?
 
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buffalo:
Maybe I don’t understand. What do you think my position is?
I think your position is:

The RCC has taken a bad rap for the sex scandal.
The RCC is a victim of the sex scandal.
Many innocent Catholics are suffering because the evil victims and lawyers are seeking damages.

The fact is:

You reap what you sow.
The RCC broke the law.
It’s time to pay the piper.
It’s time to go to jail.

Nohome
 
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buffalo:
So it is the first responsibilty of the parent or the of age individual to report a crime to the police. What should one assume if either of them do not report the crime to the police?
There are documented cases where Church officials convined parents not to report the crime so as to prevent scandal in the church. The “pay, pray and obey” mentality of lay people often led to a lack of reporting.

Nohome
 
Anyone who has been hurt or abused. . .whether it was by a priest, an authority figure, or a family member. . .deserves our prayers and help.

But there appear to be those neo-Donatists who simply cannot believe that there could ever be a “different way” of looking at things “before the fact”.

Yes, abuse is a crime.
BUT. . .and I am NOT just talking the RC here–on the whole, not “incident by incident”, but on the average, 40 years ago people, while they certainly knew that abuse was wrong, could and did react differently than they do today.

As an example, 50 years ago a single woman who became pregnant was often ostracized, reviled, or shunned by the community. NOW she is often lauded, praised, and elevated practically to sainthood by the community. --and before you FLAME, note I say “often”. 50 years ago there were a FEW people who went “against the majority”, and TODAY there are a FEW who go “against the majority”–but what the majority DOES, SAYS, and THINKS has changed VERY MUCH in those 50 years.

So 40 years ago maybe a child, a parent, a priest or a bishop decided NOT to press charges. NOT because they were trying to cover up for the PERP, but because they were trying, believe it or not, to protect the victim.

I can assure you that even in these oh-so-enlightened times, if you aren’t in the “majority” (example, you were molested not by a priest, but by a father or uncle), and it “comes out” in public, there are still plenty of people who will blame you, who will judge YOU. . .even if you were 3, not 16. And 40 years ago? Even the psychiatrists (you know, the ones who were still INSISTING then that these people could be cured, and SHOULD be sent back and exposed to MORE children so that they could FACE THEIR DEMONS and WIN) did not believe most abused children, did not recognize child depression and–here’s another one for the books–thought that abused children were “resilient” enough to be able to escape relatively “unscathed” from most one-time “encounters” which is what the majority of these crimes were.

I know it is difficult, but please try to remember that the people 30 and 40 years ago did NOT have the knowledge that we have today. It would be like living 20 years from now and wondering why on EARTH the people in New Orleans had not “prepared” for Hurricane Katrina, thinking that it was totally an AVOIDABLE hurricane, and blaming all the victims for criminal NEGLECT in not having prepared for the hurricane, because perhaps 20 years from now people WILL be able to evacuate more quickly, will have technology capable of getting people out of harms’ way, and people then will be as clueless about people NOW as some are today about people living 20 years or more ago.
 
Tantum ergo:
Anyone who has been hurt or abused. . .whether it was by a priest, an authority figure, or a family member. . .deserves our prayers and help.
and money!
I know it is difficult, but please try to remember that the people 30 and 40 years ago did NOT have the knowledge that we have today.
The cigarette manufacturers didn’t know better, Oxydental Petroleum didn’t know better, Johns-Mannsville (asbestos) didn’t know better, but they are paying for past sins.

Isn’t the Truth and wisdom of the RCC timeless? Didn’t they know that they were dancing with the devil? I’ll say it again, you reap what you sow and the RCC will soon pay for the collosal mistakes of the past.

Nohome
 
Doesn’t the bible say that the love of money is the root of all evil?

The fact that you leap in with “money”! and talk about the Church “paying” (whether consciously or not, the fact that you used THAT word speaks volumes about you) is troubling to me as a Christian.

I am sorry that you chose to have “nohome” because you are choosing to walk away from problems and urging others (not yourself, is that not correct?) to “throw money” at problems. IMO, such actions are not likely to lead to any solutions at all. Look at the SAT scores of American students over the past 40 years and tell me how the places that spend the MOST money per capita are NOT winding up with the best students, and then tell me that people who have been abused can best, or even only, be satisfied with “money”.
 
There is a movie showing in Toledo, Ohio, at Toledo Univ. called “Twist of Faith”. It’s a story about a man that was allegedly molested by a priest in Toledo when he was a boy. It will be playing for three days, and has been advertised heavily on tv. The novel was written by Kirby Dick. I have not and will not see it, but it will probably attempt to make people believe that there are molesting priests behind every tree, waiting to pounce. The whole thing makes me sick. Just about everything does, anymore. God help us all.
 
Tantum ergo:
Doesn’t the bible say that the love of money is the root of all evil?"
Yes, Timothy 6:10. You will note that money is not the root of all evil, rather the love of said money. Money is the root of all good. It is money that feeds the hungry, clothes the naked and provides shelter for the homeless. Money will also compensate victims of the sex scandal and teach the clergy a tough lesson.
Tantum ergo:
The fact that you leap in with “money”! and talk about the Church “paying” (whether consciously or not, the fact that you used THAT word speaks volumes about you) is troubling to me as a Christian."
The Diocese of LA is the subject of this thread, not me. The fact that the Diocese of LA continues to withold documents from the DA’s office should trouble you as a Catholic. It is only a matter of time before someone is indicted.
Tantum ergo:
I am sorry that you chose to have “nohome” because you are choosing to walk away from problems and urging others (not yourself, is that not correct?) to “throw money” at problems. IMO, such actions are not likely to lead to any solutions at all. Look at the SAT scores of American students over the past 40 years and tell me how the places that spend the MOST money per capita are NOT winding up with the best students, and then tell me that people who have been abused can best, or even only, be satisfied with “money”.
I would be much happier with a few bishops in prison. Money will not heal wounds, but it will get the attention of the clergy. They are not above the law, that of our country or God. SATs is just another tangential argument to steer away from the topic of this thread, the Diocese of LA. A Diocese that is bankrupt in more ways than one.

Nohome
 
Money Makes the world go around,just like the song says. The fastest way to get a bishops attention is to do something that effects his money,its regretable,but true.
The most knee jerk liberal bishop, wil turn into a reactioary tyrant, if anyone mess’s with his money.That was a primary reason theyve been covering up this scandal so doggedly.
 
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