Apparitions - Deceptions of Satan?

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Eden:
I am starting this thread to discuss the accusations by some Protestants that Marian apparitions are a deception of satan.

Here is a quote from Alfie from a discussion on another thread.

This thread is to discuss the idea that satan disguises himself as Mary to… lead people to Christ? 😉 The accusation is that we are deceived. Comments?
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I guess Satan wants to lead people to God and friendship with God’s friends, such as His dearly beloved Mother. :rolleyes:

Any Protestant who knows the first thing about Catholicism knows that the Church teaches that giving adoration (latria) to anyone but God is a mortal sin. So I generally assume the “Satan making people worship Mary argument” is from the fringe elements of Protestantism that either don’t know better or aren’t concerned about being honest.
 
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mumof5:
Tobit…yes…wel…lol.
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In another thread you mentioned that you were cleansing your house of rosaries and medals. Did you take scissors to your Bible, too?
 
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mumof5:
Tobit…yes…wel…lol.
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JMJ + OBT​

Where in the Holy Bible does it tell you that Tobit does not belong among the books of the Bible? Where in the Holy Bible does it tell you that Matthew’s Gospel is to be included? Where does it tell you that it is impossible that a man might write another book tomorrow which belongs in the Bible?

In other words, where in Scritpure do you learn the contents of the canon of Scripture and the fact that the canon is complete and will not be added to?

I’m being serious. 🙂

In Christ.

IC XC NIKA
 
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Batjacboy:
I’ll make this brief, since it should go in another thread:

I wouldn’t be too dismissive of Tobit–if it was good enough for Christ, it should be good enough for you:

Matthew 7:12: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

According to Christ, this Golden Rule can be found in the Old Testament, which He quotes from. We know where it’s from: Tobit.

Where’s the direct quote in your Old Testament? Remember, Christ said, He’s quoting the law and the prophets.

Bottom line: Lily, therefore, is perfectly right to mention Raphael.

And you didn’t bother to address her other point:

Please do so.
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I have asked her to post examples… waiting.
 
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Eden:
There are *no *biblical references to support that not only angels can be messengers?

The word Transfiguration means a changing of appearance or form. In Christianity The Transfiguration is a miraculous event in the Synoptic Gospel accounts of Jesus (Matthew 17:1–6, Mark 9:1–8, Luke 9:28–36): Jesus led three of his apostles, Peter, John, and James, to pray at the top of a mountain, where he became transfigured, with his face shining like the sun, and with brilliant white clothes; Elijah and Moses appeared with Jesus, and talked with him, and then a bright cloud appeared overhead, and a voice from the cloud proclaimed, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased: hear ye Him.” According to Luke, Moses and Elijah also appeared in “glorious splendor”, and Jesus spoke with them concerning his upcoming death.

www.wikipedia.com
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The Transfiguration has no bearing on any visions since then. None at all. Try again.
 
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mumof5:
The Transfiguration has no bearing on any visions since then. None at all. Try again.
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So, now we go from no support for messengers being anyone but angels to yes, there is one but it doesn’t count?! :rotfl:

Remember this is what you said before I mentioned the Transfiguration
There is nothing to support anyone but angels as messengers and no biblical references that support such apparitions.
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Where does it say in the Bible that there would be no more visions after the Transfiguration?
 
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Eden:
Jesus referenced Tobit. How do you defend cutting Tobit out of the Bible?
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Well, if she can’t…maybe you could provide examples of ‘lengthy conversations’ angels hold…

And would you post the part ofTobit that Jesus references AND the corresponding NT scripture please…
 
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mumof5:
And would you post the part ofTobit that Jesus references AND the corresponding NT scripture please…
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Certainly:

Tobit 4:16: See thou never do to another what thou wouldst hate to have done to thee by another.

Matthew 7:12 quoted in my previous post.

We’re all still waiting for you to answer the last 5 posts regarding Tobit.

Oh, and still waiting for you to show us where it is in your Old Testament
 
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mumof5:
Well, if she can’t…maybe you could provide examples of ‘lengthy conversations’ angels hold…

And would you post the part ofTobit that Jesus references AND the corresponding NT scripture please…
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Are you stating that Mary had “lengthy conversations” with those to whom she appeared? I clearly said in post #13 that she has had lengthy messages. Very rarely do the people who see and hear her speak. It is almost entirely one-sided messages from heaven through Mary.

Also, in the Transfiguration we read about Jesus having a conversation with Moses and Elijah about His upcoming death. Is that scriptural? Oh, wait. It is in scripture. 😃
 
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Batjacboy:
Oh, and still waiting for you to show us where it is in your Old Testament.
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And if you can’t, just say so, so we can concentrate on the Apparition part of the thread.
 
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mumof5:
And would you post the part ofTobit that Jesus references AND the corresponding NT scripture please…
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JMJ + OBT​

Here they are 🙂 :
Do to no one what you yourself dislike. Do not drink wine till you become drunk, nor let drunkenness accompany you on your way. (Tobit 4:15 [NAB])
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“Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. This is the law and the prophets.”(Matthew 7:12 [NAB])
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(emphasis mine)

In Christ.

IC XC NIKA
 
WhoseBob is right:

You can use Tobit 4:15 as well as Tobit 4:16.

(I believe that’s what they call a twofer).
 
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mumof5:
I have asked her to post examples… waiting.
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Here we go - Revelations Chapter 11. The entire first half of the chapter is a long speech from an angel.
 
Hey, I can’t keep up with a thread moving at this pace while I’m trying to cook 😉

Little children guard yourselves from idols (1 John 5:21) This is what is happening with marian ‘visions’. What about all the Biblical warnings about false prophets?

Sometimes Jesus is in the arms of Mary during visions…sometimes as an infant. Wrong. Jesus is at the right hand of God! Mary has now power to intercede for peace - Jesus is the Prince of Peace! Some of the stuff going on at Medjugorje is not pretty, certainly not of Christ. Investigate it.

It is written, Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4).
Oh hang on…it doesn’t say, AND the words of Mary and any other dead Saint. And before someone gives Bible examples of saints being asked to pray for and intercede on behalf of those living - those asked to pray and intercede (to GOD) are themselves living. Trying to communicate with the dead is a penalty worthy of death in the Bible.

And now she’s co-redemptrix? Wow. What blasphemy. Jesus alone is the redeemer. And who did Mary worship? My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Saviour (Luke 1:46-47). God. Her Saviour. Oh hang on…if she was sinless why did she need a Saviour?

The naîve believes everything” (Prov 14:15).

And it’s so hysterical that even burnt bits of toast are said to contain the image of Mary.

In whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they may not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (2 Cor 4:4).
 
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LilyM:
Here we go - Revelations Chapter 11. The entire first half of the chapter is a long speech from an angel.
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OK, thanks. Will have a look when I get time a bit later.
 
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mumof5:
Little children guard yourselves from idols (1 John 5:21) This is what is happening with marian ‘visions’. What about all the Biblical warnings about false prophets?
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In what way is Mary either an idol or a false prophet?

Please demonstrate.
 
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mumof5:
Oh hang on…it doesn’t say, AND the words of Mary and any other dead Saint. And before someone gives Bible examples of saints being asked to pray for and intercede on behalf of those living - those asked to pray and intercede (to GOD) are themselves living. Trying to communicate with the dead is a penalty worthy of death in the Bible.
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What is going on in these “churches” that so many Protestants are learning that people who are purified and have gone to “heaven” are dead? What kind of Christian theology teaches it’s people that saints in heaven who are fully alive in Christ are dead? Blasphemy!
 
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mumof5:
And it’s so hysterical that even burnt bits of toast are said to contain the image of Mary.
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“Said” by whom? Show me one instance in which burnt bits of toast were “approved” by the Vatican.
 
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