Archbishop Warns Obama: You’ll Cause 'Conflict Between Church and State of Enormous Proportions’

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In Canada when the homosexual lobby was demanding same-sex “marriage” we heard some people voicing this exact concern. “Progressive” minded people scoffed at it.

A few short years later we read:

(That is from April 2011. The story is here.)

Changing the ancient definition of marriage a ‘slippery slope’? No way they declared. Now it’s happening.
Good afternoon, Reginator,

Good post of yours and good link.

I’d like to point out, according to a woman I heard on a midnight talk show, who wanted to have more than one husband, that traditional polygamy could change, too.
Other people coming out of their closets on that talk show also including a 26 year old American man in Germany, who wanted to marry an 8 year old girl … child marriage.

There are all kinds of people besides homosexual who want to strip marriage of its protective nature to a man and woman and their legitimate children. If they didn’t want to strip marriage of its legal protections, the errant woman would marry one man, the child loving man would turn to an adult woman and gays would turn to partners of opposite gender, or all of them would become celibate and suffer controlling their errant desires just like single, celibate heterosexuals do.

With the ending line of the above paragraph in mind, then we don’t have so much a demand or true care for any kind of rights, as rather a demand to not suffer self control. Seems to me, then, that these people are also demanding that our legal systems pander to their incontinence.

Where is my compassion? I have compassion because my self-control entails some suffering. I have compassion for Jews, who were persecuted for 4,000 and more years - first in a polytheistic world for over 2,000 years, being killed, raped, beaten and all to change … then for the next 2,000 years more of the same by people claiming to be Christian and slain by the millions in atheist USSR and Lutheran Nazi Germany - not allowed property, etc including being ejected from their God-given homeland by a pagan Roman emperor; I have compassion for Native Americans, who were conquered, stripped of their lands, endured 19th Century bio mass destruction, who were deprived of their traditional food, homes, tools and clothes when 100 white hunters drove almost to extinction the three Great Herds of buffalo, in ten years, the source of all of the above to Native Americans; I have compassion for the American Negro, who suffered slavery in the Americas for 400 years before Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. led them to their freedom and rights during the 1960’s in the USofA; and, I have compassion for all denied their rights and liberties in all of the Americas and all over the world today. And, I do have compassion for gays, too, who are helped along the road to Hell by pandering to their Militant Activists’ little historical hissy fit. They have far less grievous conditions over a much less period of time in the USofA, than any of the above.

I liked it a lot better, when marriage was a social, familial and legal duty … until that Supreme Court judge came along and with whatever he was smoking or drinking, ruled that marriage was a right.

God loves you,
Don
 
An admirable position Rig, that I too share. That is homosexuals not being of the devil or satan.

I myself view them as all of us, created by God, in His image.

However brother Don, and the CC I assume, take a far different view of homosexuals, in that their dis-ordered/devilish actions are indeed a product of satan in their opinion, and as such should be shunned, denounced, and discriminated against until they confess and repent of their evil ways, and sin no more.

Don and the church apparently love these poor homosexual sinners so much that they are willing to make their lives a living hell here on earth, that their spiritual souls might attain heaven in the future, upon their repentence of evil.

Care to repent for not equating practicing homosexuals with satan Rig?

jomoco
Good afternoon, jomoco,

Thank you, for your post.

I guess you haven’t read all of any one post I’ve made.

I don’t speak for the Holy Roman Catholic Church. There is a lot I have yet to learn, about her doctrine and dogma. But, I am sure that it can be summed up with, “Love the sinner and hate the sin.”
Now, if a sinner is clinging so close to his or her sin, that they confuse hatred of their sin for hatred of them, that’s the sinner’s fault … not mine nor the Church’s.

No, citizen, I equate homosexuals as no different from any other type of sinner.
Although Militant homosexuals are demanding a special regard for their sin, when they’re active in that lifestyle. They aren’t special or more picked on than any other minority nor they special because they’re a sinner. I just don’t see Militant homosexuals as special people. Is that what grates you? That you aren’t treated like you’re special?
Although I have compassion for any gay who tries to live a celibate life with his or her impulses, or who is struggling with sorting himself or herself out in between God’s type of truthful love and a society which enables their sinfulness. I find Militant Rights gays and their supporters disregard of what they’re doing to other gays who really care, rather irritating.

But, I do not deny that God loves even the Militants and their supporters. Nor do I deny to myself that they are in dire need of His salvation. That’s where my compassion lays. Even though I think that the Militants give the whole gay community a bad name.

Okay, jomoco, I have just read through six pages of this thread and responded along the way. This post of mine responds to your mention of me in your post #313, so, I’m current on this thread.
And, that’s it for me, tonight, on this thread. I’ll be back, God willing and barring the unforeseen, some time tomorrow.

God loves you,
Don
 
An admirable position Rig, that I too share. That is homosexuals not being of the devil or satan.

I myself view them as all of us, created by God, in His image.

However brother Don, and the CC I assume, take a far different view of homosexuals, in that their dis-ordered/devilish actions are indeed a product of satan in their opinion, and as such should be shunned, denounced, and discriminated against until they confess and repent of their evil ways, and sin no more.

Don and the church apparently love these poor homosexual sinners so much that they are willing to make their lives a living hell here on earth, that their spiritual souls might attain heaven in the future, upon their repentence of evil.

Care to repent for not equating practicing homosexuals with satan Rig?

jomoco
You still haven’t answered the question. What rights are being denied?
 
Hi, Irishpatrick,

Shame that the Bishop did not write this letter much earlier!

As of today, there are 383 days before we go to the voting booths! If you not registered to vote as of yet - please do so. The really sad part we are finding out is that we get the government we deserve. :eek:

God bless
It strikes me that if all Catholics read that letter, they’d have no choice but to vote Obama out of office next fall!
 
Civil marriage, and societal acceptance of their equal rights under the law.

jomoco
Civil marriage, if you mean between 2 people of the same sex, is not a marriage. Simple as that. License and right. Look at the difference. A right cooperates with God’s will. I have a right to slit my throat in spite of the negative consequences for those around me. Oh, but you say “I have a right!” It just doesn’t make any sense. I have a right to punch my neighbor in the nose because he made me angry? Don’t think so there either. Natural Law dictates that marriage can not exist between people of the same sex, therefore there is no marriage. Society has the moral obligation to protect society from those that would try to distort or hurt a healthy society. Statistics prove the instability of those with same sex attraction. It’s like taking a bunch of parts form different failing bridges and trying to make a new bridge out of it… it’s surely doomed to fail.
 
Good afternoon, jomoco,

Thank you, for your post.

I guess you haven’t read all of any one post I’ve made.

Now, if a sinner is clinging so close to his or her sin, that they confuse hatred of their sin for hatred of them, that’s the sinner’s fault … not mine nor the Church’s.

God loves you,
Don
You know Don my friend, actually I do read your replies to me, but pay close attention to the details. I do this in order to detect the cold judgemental steel fist so lovingly encased within your soft velvety glove of rhetoric, and discriminatory conditional love.

When the homosexual sinner you describe studies his own afflicted people’s history in connection with almost every christian culture, it consists of discrimination, persecution often followed by execution. This recorded history is all too comparable to exactly how early christians were treated before and after Christ’s sacrifice to be ignored without dire consequence to those guilty of discrimination and persecution, rather than forgiveness acceptance and love, the worthy attributes taught by Christ himself.

You my friend are the one equating the actions of homosexual people living a fulfilling and natural lifestyle for them, with satan. Then counseling a hearty hatred of their sin, in the velvet glove of judgement, better left worn by the Divine.

jomoco
 
You know Don my friend, actually I do read your replies to me, but pay close attention to the details. I do this in order to detect the cold judgemental steel fist so lovingly encased within your soft velvety glove of rhetoric, and discriminatory conditional love.

When the homosexual sinner you describe studies his own afflicted people’s history in connection with almost every christian culture, it consists of discrimination, persecution often followed by execution. This recorded history is all too comparable to exactly how early christians were treated before and after Christ’s sacrifice to be ignored without dire consequence to those guilty of discrimination and persecution, rather than forgiveness acceptance and love, the worthy attributes taught by Christ himself.

You my friend are the one equating the actions of homosexual people living a fulfilling and natural lifestyle for them, with satan. Then counseling a hearty hatred of their sin, in the velvet glove of judgement, better left worn by the Divine.

jomoco
Good afternoon, jomoco,

Do you have a source for your history of homosexuals? I enjoy reading traditional history books, have several right here at the house. I also enjoy well documented historical novels. What’s your documented source of homosexual history, please?

Yes, sin equates to Satan as well as to unbridled human lust. The sinfully active lifestyle equates to sin, which equates to Satan.

You never answered my question, “Does it grate you that I don’t see homosexuals as special?” Please answer my question.

I’ve heard a lot of pro-gay propaganda, and read a bunch of it, so you’re not stating anything I don’t know.
As far as your opinion of me, I wish you’d refrain from your judging me in the guise of the offended innocent. We’re both too old to be innocents, so would you please knock off the injured innocent act? It’s as wrong for you to judge me as it is were I to judge you.

My Jesus says, “I have not come to condemn the world, but to save it.” Of course, if some people don’t want His brand of salvation, they sure don’t have to pick on us who do, and who pull repentant sinners from the flames of hell.

God loves you,
Don
 
**Although Militant homosexuals are demanding a special regard for their sin, when they’re active in that lifestyle. They aren’t special or more picked on than any other minority nor they special because they’re a sinner. I just don’t see Militant homosexuals as special people. Is that what grates you? That you aren’t treated like you’re special?
Although I have compassion for any gay who tries to live a celibate life with his or her impulses, or who is struggling with sorting himself or herself out in between God’s type of truthful love and a society which enables their sinfulness.
I find Militant Rights gays and their supporters disregard of what they’re doing to other gays who really care, rather irritating.
**
 
You know Don my friend, actually I do read your replies to me, but pay close attention to the details. I do this in order to detect the cold judgemental steel fist so lovingly encased within your soft velvety glove of rhetoric, and discriminatory conditional love.
That’s excessively harsh. He’s repeating Church doctrine. Do you consider the Church’s doctrine to be “discriminatory” in the fact that She requires purity of both the unmarried and the married, the homosexual and the heterosexual, the clergy and the laity?

And he didn’t say anything about his love being “conditional.” He said that compassion (unconditional love) is required toward sinners (which we all are). And he said that the particular approach of the militant gays toward the Church irritated him. He didn’t say anything about homosexuals having to change their behavior in order for him to love them.
forgiveness acceptance and love, the worthy attributes taught by Christ himself.
When I go into the confessional to ask for forgiveness of my sins, my sins are not forgiven by God unless I:
(1) acknowledge the sinfulness of them (instead of excusing them)
(2) repent of that sinfulness – expressing contrition outwardly through prayer and inwardly through my attitude
(3) resolve to attempt to avoid those very sins I have just confessed, including if those sins involve some kind of permanent lifestyle, such as cohabiting before marriage – fornication – with a man who provides me with
a fulfilling and natural lifestyle for [me]
Without those 3 elements, forgiveness is not granted. By definition, forgiveness by God implies contrition on the part of the sinner, and a sincere interest in changing.
You my friend are the one equating the actions of homosexual people living a fulfilling and natural lifestyle for them, with satan. Then counseling a hearty hatred of their sin, in the velvet glove of judgement, better left worn by the Divine.
Christians were called by Jesus Himself to judge and correct. Homosexuality was not approved of in the Jewish moral code which Jesus embraced. He called his followers to constant conversion – the same persistent conversion to which we are all called today.
 
You know Don my friend, actually I do read your replies to me, but pay close attention to the details. I do this in order to detect the cold judgemental steel fist so lovingly encased within your soft velvety glove of rhetoric, and discriminatory conditional love.

When the homosexual sinner you describe studies his own afflicted people’s history in connection with almost every christian culture, it consists of discrimination, persecution often followed by execution. This recorded history is all too comparable to exactly how early christians were treated before and after Christ’s sacrifice to be ignored without dire consequence to those guilty of discrimination and persecution, rather than forgiveness acceptance and love, the worthy attributes taught by Christ himself.

You my friend are the one equating the actions of homosexual people living a fulfilling and natural lifestyle for them, with satan. Then counseling a hearty hatred of their sin, in the velvet glove of judgement, better left worn by the Divine.

jomoco
Facinating from a Christian perspective. Not sure how you see this Biblically? Could you elaborate?

No-one judges you, far from me as a wicked sinner. I agree that will definately be up to God.

Peace
 
You still haven’t answered the question. What rights are being denied?
jomoco;8486084:
Civil marriage, and societal acceptance of their equal rights under the law.

jomoco
I see. So what right is being denied?
Any man is free to marry whatever woman will have him.
The law does not discriminate against anyone based upon their sex.
It does however place conditions upon the exercise of this right.
I am not free to marry more then one woman at a time, for instance.

All men in this country share this, I do not see where it is denied anyone.
Please explain further.

Also, you need to explain this right of ‘societal acceptance’ that you keep speaking of.
As far as I know, no one has that right.

Please explain this as well. What exactly is this particular right? Where is it located within the laws of this country that provide this right to one group of people but not to homosexuals?

I look forward to your answers on these.
Thanks very much.
 
I see. So what right is being denied?
Any man is free to marry whatever woman will have him.
The law does not discriminate against anyone based upon their sex.
It does however place conditions upon the exercise of this right.
I am not free to marry more then one woman at a time, for instance.

All men in this country share this, I do not see where it is denied anyone.
Please explain further.

Also, you need to explain this right of ‘societal acceptance’ that you keep speaking of.
As far as I know, no one has that right.

Please explain this as well. What exactly is this particular right? Where is it located within the laws of this country that provide this right to one group of people but not to homosexuals?

I look forward to your answers on these.
Thanks very much.
👍
 
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The_Reginator:
Bless you, Reginator.

God loves you,
Don
 
That’s excessively harsh. He’s repeating Church doctrine. Do you consider the Church’s doctrine to be “discriminatory” in the fact that She requires purity of both the unmarried and the married, the homosexual and the heterosexual, the clergy and the laity?

And he didn’t say anything about his love being “conditional.” He said that compassion (unconditional love) is required toward sinners (which we all are). And he said that the particular approach of the militant gays toward the Church irritated him. He didn’t say anything about homosexuals having to change their behavior in order for him to love them.

When I go into the confessional to ask for forgiveness of my sins, my sins are not forgiven by God unless I:
(1) acknowledge the sinfulness of them (instead of excusing them)
(2) repent of that sinfulness – expressing contrition outwardly through prayer and inwardly through my attitude
(3) resolve to attempt to avoid those very sins I have just confessed, including if those sins involve some kind of permanent lifestyle, such as cohabiting before marriage – fornication – with a man who provides me with

Without those 3 elements, forgiveness is not granted. By definition, forgiveness by God implies contrition on the part of the sinner, and a sincere interest in changing.

Christians were called by Jesus Himself to judge and correct. Homosexuality was not approved of in the Jewish moral code which Jesus embraced. He called his followers to constant conversion – the same persistent conversion to which we are all called today.
Bless you, Elizabeth.

God loves you,
Don
 
Facinating from a Christian perspective. Not sure how you see this Biblically? Could you elaborate?

No-one judges you, far from me as a wicked sinner. I agree that will definately be up to God.

Peace
Bless you, Gary.

God loves you,
Don
 
Hi, Mudgely,

Thank you for offering a clarification.

Unfortunately, it is just a rant, not much different from the prevous rant - and it does not explain anything except you are unhappy with the evidence provided by Elizabeth502. You provide no evidence of your own - except that you do not like what she said. Surely, you can do better than that. So, instead of merely lashing out when someone uses the recognized term of ‘gay agenda’ - just explain why you think the previous statements were incorrect.

Now, if you can do this without sarcasm, that would be very good.

God bless
Your comments are welcome. Two claims were made. (1) Civil union with “equal” legal rights are not enough for these people, with the implication that because they are dissatisfied with that, then they are not only seeking their civil rights, as they perceive them, but rather a subversion of society. By implication, some evil “gay agenda” is afoot. Let me turn the question around. Let’s assume that tomorrow the State tells all people who are now married, that they are not married but that they have all of the same legal rights that they currently have. Additionally, there is a certain class of people - say those with red hair - who remain legally married. This could not happen under current law, as the state does not have that authority. I make the hypothetical point to illustrate that marriage and civil union are not identical. Calling them such is inaccurate. (2) The observation was made that these people, as part of the “gay agenda”, are not satisfied to quietly accept what the poster or someone else might give them, but that they insist on public statements in the media promoting and explaining their point of view. The desire and practice of free speech is characterized as evil, if it is practiced by this group. The only difference between the Archbishop publishing an open letter to the President, or the gay lobby publishing an open letter to the President, is the content of the letter. The poster would appear to allow the rights of the Archbishop, but would block the rights of the gay lobby. The poster is in favor of the exercise of certain constitutional rights for certain classes of people, and would deny the same rights for some other class(es) of people, based on personal preference and opinion, but not based on any of the codified bars to the practice of those rights.
 
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