Archbishop Wilton Gregory will not deny Biden Communion

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Ah, pedantics.
Defining terms is an essential to communication. Biden has not been a Senator, voting in Congress, in twelve years. He has not had, performed, or assisted in an abortion. Saying he believes in abortion is untrue, unless the meaning in that verb is something other that one of the two usual meanings assigned to it.

I am not pedantic because I understand the importance of precision in language. I assure you, bishops understand the need for this very precision. Without such precision, understanding what AB Gregory said would be difficult.
 
Do you know any politician who is opposed to artificial contraception?
I am sure there are a few, but is that the standard? And doesn’t that make my point? If all US politicians were pro-choice, then would it be OK for Biden to take communion, but its not OK if there are others that are more pro-life? If it is not a political move, then it should apply equally to all those that oppose the Church’s teachings in their public life.
 
Name the politicians
You want me to name every politician who supports SSM and birth control? Seriously?

Well its pretty much every single politician as to birth control - do you know one that does not? Same for the death penalty. And as to SSM, I am actually having trouble thinking of a politician that doesn’t support that either. So, all of them. Do you have names of GOP politicians who are fighting SSM, birth control or the death penalty? (And that is only three issues.) The reality is that this issue is simply something to bash Dems with. There is never any move to do the same as the GOPers.
 
Um that should be CARDINAL Gregory… in any case, not my soul, not my problem!
 
You want me to name every politician who supports SSM and birth control? Seriously?
birth control? changing the goal post to make your group bigger

which GOP politician says they are catholic and supports abortion, SSM, and euthanasia

I’ll help you out and go with just abortion to make it easier. I only know of 2 GOP senators who are rated over 10% by Planned Parenthood

Susan Collins 70%
Lisa Murkowski 64%

now do these two parade themselves as Catholic as Pelosi and Biden do? I have not seen it and frankly didn’t know they were catholic. Collins was married in a Methodist church I think. if they do present themselves they should be refused.

Father Longenecker called for these 2 and 12 others to be ex-communicated for their support of abortion

it isn’t politics, it is life
 
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So how many politicians will now be denied Holy Communion for their support of capital punishment?
 
So how many politicians will now be denied Holy Communion for their support of capital punishment?
the clergy can’t even decide what’s going on with capital punishment, it has biblical foundations and the church can’t be in disagreement with the bible.

Pope Benedict said it was something the members could disagree on and still present themselves for communion.

I’ll side with him until the dust settles
 
If all Catholics who believed in choice or had abortions or used birth control were denied communion, I wonder how many millions of men and women that would cut from communion?
That’s not really meaningful in one way or another.
My point is that if the standard is to agree with the Church on all teachings, virtually no one meets that standard, and if the standard is to always comply with all teachings, no one meets that standard. If the remedy for those failings is to be denied the Eucharist, the rail should be empty.
You are forgeting about repentance and confession so thats why you find these difficulties.
 
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Father Longenecker called for these 2 and 12 others to be ex-communicated for their support of abortion
He “called” for this? Who did he call?
Pope Benedict said it was something the members could disagree on and still present themselves for communion.

I’ll side with him until the dust settles
Just to be clear, he resigned as pope in 2013.
 
Just to be clear, he resigned as pope in 2013.
so statements of past popes are invalid even though they agree with biblical principles?
He “called” for this? Who did he call?
I don’t know, probably anyone who would listen,

do you think a person should present themselves unworthily for communion? well it was Saint Paul who said this, but it was about 2000 years ago, does it still count?
 
so statements of past popes are invalid even though they agree with biblical principles?
I said nothing to that effect. I was pointing out that Pope Francis is the Pope. Use what you want. However, if there is anything temporal, that is, in time, only the current Pope is authoritative, though Pope Benedict is still a wise man.
do you think a person should present themselves unworthily for communion
Outside my pay grade and not my job. I will only speak for myself and say I would not present myself.
 
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birth control? changing the goal post to make your group bigger
I am not changing anything. The assertion is that politicians who support public policies that deny Catholic doctrine should be denied communion. My response is that particular weaponization of religion is only used against Dems. Your response simply illustrates that I am correct. Every single major GOP politician that I am aware of works counter to the Church’s doctrine on many issues. For many, that includes abortion. But we only hear about using the Eucharist as a club against Dem figures. We can all do the math on that.
 
not my soul, not my problem!
Amen.

Perhaps if the person concerned was my spouse, my parent, my sibling, my child, my grandma, my uncle, or my best friend, it might be a little bit my problem. But when it’s a total stranger I just see on TV, I leave that to those with authority to decide…which isn’t me.
 
The assertion is that politicians who support public policies that deny Catholic doctrine should be denied communion. My response is that particular weaponization of religion is only used against Dems. Your respon
Again what GOP Catholic presents themself for communion unworthy?

You seem to miss the fact that these people are in serious error and their salvation is in jeopardy.

You seem to want to ignore the pastoral advice and just want to play the politics card and excuse them

No matter what party and no matter what sin, the church should not allow anyone to receive unworthy, you or me included if we are in sin.

It really is pastoral, this is for eternity
 
But when it’s a total stranger I just see on TV, I leave that to those with authority to decide…which isn’t me.
That is correct, but when those in authority give conflicting answers, it just adds to the scandal

The church has rules and they are the same for all, politicians don’t get a pass
 
Again what GOP Catholic presents themself for communion unworthy?
I am not going to stoop to the level of the reactionary right by calling individuals unworthy. But anyone who knows anything about US politics knows that virtually every GOP politician, Catholic or otherwise, actively supports public policies that are contrary to the Church’s teaching. Some on abortion. Nearly all on SSM. Every single one of them on the death penalty. And many other issues as well. The hypocrisy of turning a blind eye to those actions, while demanding that bishops take action against (and only against) Dems is stunning, and frankly reveals whether politics or religion is the actual concern.
No matter what party and no matter what sin, the church should not allow anyone to receive unworthy, you or me included if we are in sin.
Then why is the criticism limited to those of one political party?
 
The hypocrisy of turning a blind eye to those actions, while demanding that bishops take action against (and only against) Dems is stunning, and frankly reveals whether politics or religion is the actual concern.
Who in the GOP is causing scandal by presenting themselves for communion, let’s keep the playing field even.
Then why is the criticism limited to those of one political party?
Because no one else is causing this scandal, again point out which GOP publicly presents themselves for communion. The only 2 I know that are pro-choice haven’t publicly presented themselves for communion

You are looking to justify the public scandal of Biden by claiming others do it, okay, who

Back up your accusations
 
Because no one else is causing this scandal, again point out which GOP publicly presents themselves for communion. The only 2 I know that are pro-choice haven’t publicly presented themselves for communion
So is it your position that the only policy capable of invoking Canon 915 is abortion? No other departure from Catholic teaching can rise to that level? Because you are simply ignoring my statements about the many other Catholic teachings that GOP politicians work against.

If abortion is the only issue, how far from the Church must a politician stray to violate 915? I’m sure you are aware that virtually no US politician of either party advocates make abortion illegal across the board. The GOP position is to return the issue to the states, and most GOP politicians (of any religion) favor legal abortion in some circumstances. So how far from the Church must one stray to invoke 915? Does it happen to be exactly as far as the Dems, but not the GOP?
 
So is it your position that the only policy capable of invoking Canon 915 is abortion?
show me an example of any politician presenting themselves for communion unworthily, that is the topic of the thread

you keep changing the goal, show me who else is presenting themselves for communion unworthily as Archbishop Chaput claims Biden is doing

do you think Archbishop Chaput is playing politics?

do you disagree with Archbishop Chaput that Biden is in error by presenting himself
 
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