(Archdiocese of Detroit:) Statement regarding Real Catholic TV and its name

[Sirach2]

It all depends on what is in the heart, TrueLight.
My new pastor has a begun a most beautiful practice of having every communicant process down the main aisle of the church towards the altar, rather than use the side aisles to be closer to their pews. In my mind, I picture myself walking down the aisle as a bride to meet her bridegroom, and when we are joined in communion at the altar, I am standing, just as I stood when I took my wedding vows. So you see, it’s really what’s in the mind and heart, and that can vary for many who have similar mind-pictures born of devotion. Who’s to say any which way is wrong? I do so disagree with those who plant seeds of dissension over that secret area of the heart that nobody but God sees.

I’m sorry we have begun so many subjects in this thread that I look for it to close, just as the others have. But while it is still alive, I thought it was worth sharing, since the accusations of Voris on this matter are really judgmental.

 

[Sirach2]

Jam, I took a quick look in my Voris file, and I dId see one that is very short and had well-defined accusations of blame towards the bishops. The others are going to need my research, but this will give you an idea that I’m speaking from experience. His words, as you’ll find, clearly state “overwhelming majority” of bishops" and twice thereafter, MOST, not all, with heavy emphasis on MOST.

youtube.com/watch?v=_Ziulu6pT1g&lr=1

 

[saveusfromhell]

It would derail the thread and it would take a great deal of time to replay the videos I have on file and point to the specific sentence, so I’ll consider a PM after the holidays. But in reality, it would be a futile effort, because you most likely would not accept the facts. Would you please keep on topic … it has to do with the Statement from the Archdioces regarding the name “real Catholic.”

By the way, I am a “she.”

so you don’t withdraw your uncharitable posts. yet accuse michael of being uncharitable. you make false accusatons and unable to back then up.then make another accusation that jam won’t accept the facts. even if you were to show them to him.
hmmm, i guess jam will never see the pm. you made the accusation now you need to back it up or withdraw it not pm one “red neck”

 

[TrueLight]

So you see, it’s really what’s in the mind and heart, and that can vary for many who have similar** mind-pictures** born of devotion.

Interesting point about the imagery in the mind. I actually never thought about it that way.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I could be wrong, but I’m not sure it matters who owns it or where they live. I would think it matters where the corporation operates out of. If its incorporated somewhere in the Detroit archdiocese I’d think it would have competence over the matter.

There’s no use trying to exert authority where you have none. It just makes you look foolish. What will they do, excommunicate the corporate entity? Tell the talent he has to quit his job if his bosses don’t change the name?

 

[lizaanne]

It’s Christmas Eve folks — give it a rest.

Christ is born. Let’s focus on that for awhile, eh?

Oh Holy Night

~Liza

 

[rlg94086]

It’s Christmas Eve folks — give it a rest.

Christ is born. Let’s focus on that for awhile, eh?

Oh Holy Night

~Liza

You logged on to CAF to make a post chastizing people for posting on CAF?

Merry Christmas :christmastree1:

 

[Julia_Mae]

Furthermore, Voris did not state it as his opinion in agreement with the Cardinal but went further into saying that priests should bring this instruction to their congregations by multiple means, such as homilies, bulletin announcements, training sessions, and the like.

I keep hoping my Pastor will start bring us instruction in loving one another by multiple means such as homilies, bulletin announcements and training sessions. I wonder if this guy ever thought of putting aside his own ego for the Kingship of His Lord and His God?

 

[Sirach2]

TrueLight:

Interesting point about the imagery in the mind. I actually never thought about it that way.

It’s kinda what we talked about the other day in TC with regard to mental prayer. How important St. Teresa said it is to have our mind and heart focused. Isn’t that what Our Lord sees most of all in our desire to be one with him in his holy sacrament? It is our own sanctuary that not a single person can say with any certainty that the “heart” is better prepared in this position, or that. I have received him flat on my back in a hospital bed with just as much devotion as any other bodily position.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Would anyone argue that getting down on one’s knees is not a more seemingly reverent act than standing up in the Western church?

So, if you see someone standing while you are kneeling, you are more reverent than they are? Or you think that you won’t believe that? Or that others won’t? See, I don’t think we can separate the act and the person, and we need not to separate ourselves from one another at all. This whole thing has become an occasion of sin.

Obedient, humble Catholics do the best they can to follow the Church to Jesus Christ. Arrogant self-righteous Catholics go around telling everyone else how to behave and all the better if they get paid to do so.

 

[TrueLight]

So, if you see someone standing while you are kneeling, you are more reverent than they are? Or you think that you won’t believe that? Or that others won’t? See, I don’t think we can separate the act and the person, and we need not to separate ourselves from one another at all. This whole thing has become an occasion of sin.

Obedient, humble Catholics do the best they can to follow the Church to Jesus Christ. Arrogant self-righteous Catholics go around telling everyone else how to behave and all the better if they get paid to do so.

There sure is a lot of name-calling going on in this thread.

I suppose you are not being judgmental by implying that those who criticizes a practice are not humble or obedient?

It isn’t a sin for the laity to criticize practices. Bishops are human like anyone else and sometimes they think about what people are saying and change their minds.

 

[Julia_Mae]

There sure is a lot of name-calling going on in this thread.

I suppose you are not being judgmental by implying that those who criticizes a practice are not humble or obedient?

I’m really sorry if you think I was referring to anyone at all ITT or on CAF. I’ve certainly never thought you, for instance, were in any way self-righteous. I was asking about how long it would honestly take to conflate the person and the action.

I was referring to a man who makes a living rudely asserting he is more Catholic than the Pope apparently. Or Bishops for sure, and getting paid for it. I’m pretty confused by the idea that Catholics who consider themselves to be loyal to the Pope and Magisterium don’t think this person is completely out of line, as he makes his living attacking the Church.

I do not think it’s useful for the Archdiocese to try and get this name changed or give him free publicity. As to this:

I suppose you are not being judgmental by implying that those who criticizes a practice are not humble or obedient?

Words have definitions and language has meaning. Humility is not part of criticizing someone. They are mutually exclusive.

 

[LiveCatholic]

Start your own thread, if you want to, Jam - this is OFF TOPIC.

You two could have your own talk show… a kind of Catholic Hannity & Colmes, if you like.

 

[TrueLight]

I’m really sorry if you think I was referring to anyone at all ITT or on CAF. I’ve certainly never thought you, for instance, were in any way self-righteous. I was asking about how long it would honestly take to conflate the person and the action.

I was referring to a man who makes a living rudely asserting he is more Catholic than the Pope apparently. Or Bishops for sure, and getting paid for it. I’m pretty confused by the idea that Catholics who consider themselves to be loyal to the Pope and Magisterium don’t think this person is completely out of line, as he makes his living attacking the Church.

I do not think it’s useful for the Archdiocese to try and get this name changed or give him free publicity. As to this:

Words have definitions and language has meaning. Humility is not part of criticizing someone. They are mutually exclusive.

Alright Julia. It’s Christmas Eve after all. In the couple of hours I have before I have to get ready, I think I will peruse some spiritual threads.

 

[LiveCatholic]

Show me proof that Voris is driving people away. Apparantly for you it’s ok that individuals misrepresent Catholic teaching or support groups opposed to Catholic teaching. Let’s not not point fingers or hurt their feelings as they lead souls to hell.

Mike Voris is a Catholic layman who does something weird–he uses a presentation style somewhere between ‘preaching’ and Bill O’Reilly-esque political commentary.

This is both weird and un-historical in the Catholic tradition. Name one other Catholic figure to use a similar approach–you can’t.

That’s not to say he isn’t entertaining, enlightening, and important. It might not so be bad to have him around. However, simply because he is a blunt and in-your-face, this doesn’t make him a modern St. Paul.

The presentation isn’t particularly charitable and if Mr. Voris intended it to be evangelism, it STINKS. Therefore bishops, concerned Catholics, and non-Catholics can be forgiven if they’re slow to warm up to Mr. Voris and his, frankly, revolutionary style of presentation.

Mr. Voris has his niche. Like Bill O’Reilly, or any given political commentator, he’s largely preaching to the proverbial choir. This isn’t to say he’s intellectual sterile or speaking in an echo chamber: he can direct our attention to important issues, that we faithful Catholics should be concerned about.

On the other hand, he’s not exactly ‘walking the walk’–if we raise up Voris on our shoulders, as Catholics, will he be the best example we can find of a person configured to Christ? Or is he just someone who can present an eloquent defense of Catholic culture? Which, by the way, even atheists and Pastafarians can do.

Mr. Voris’ resume shows that he at one point attended a seminary, and later went back to receive his first ecclesiastical degree, STB. This might have been the right idea–then, like Fr. Barron, he could exercise his gift for championing Catholic culture (and doctrine), while at the self-restraint and charity built into the priest’s life.

Currently, though, his agitating for ‘Catholic dictatorship’ (whatever that is, sounds like fascism to me…), titling one of his presentations ‘The Jews’ (which would fit nicely as the title of an medieval antisemitic tract), &c. just does nothing for the way that Catholics approach non-Catholics. In fact, it damages it, by neither presenting a person configured to Christ nor a message palatable to the non-Catholic–but yet insinuating that Voris is a ‘REAL’ Catholic, as opposed to every other ‘fake/dubious’ Catholic.

All in all, Mr. Voris’ program is something quite novel, and potentially good, but it needs to be reined in and subordinated to figures like Fr. Barron or Fr. Groeschel, who can actually operate as evangelists rather than Catholic political commentators.

 

[Canto]

The public voice of the Church is the Bishop, not individual Catholics who have given themselves self-righteous authority.

Jim

Yet does not the lay apostloate have a job in the world to spread the faith?
And does not Canon Law say lay people can make their opinions known?

Voris’ vortex’s are fiery at times but…
what about all the talks
the apologetic videos
The catechesis videos
the Fr Paul videos for kids on the Eucharist, prayer, confession etc
The shadow Priest and his videos
The biblical talks
RCTV news
and all the other great things they do in spreading the real faith

And does any one ever mention when he goes on and on about great Bishops in the Vortex’s. Does anyone ever note the great team at RCTV or just single out the one guy.

Sure sometimes he criticizes some people, but isn’t there the famous story of St Catherine and the Pope.

In relation to the topic at hand, as has been said, the person who owns the name and pays for the videos to be made lives in another diocese. So what authority does the AoD have? Can they say to Voris and team - you’re not allowed to make videos for this man from another diocese who uses the name Catholic?

 

[comrade1789]

So is being overly liberal.

I’m off subject, sorry, but I try to avoid using vocabulary that was tainted by the minsonered “Enlightenment,” the very one that led to the guillotine of the French Revolution, Left/Right, Conservative/Liberal…those words might work for political and economic worldviews, but to describe those acting as Catholics, I think there is only orthodox or heterodox.

 

[pnewton]

Come on now. Jesus did not mince words especially when it came to the pharisees.

He was the Son of the Most High and carried the authority of the Father. This is precisely why canon law is the way it is. One who has authority can speak out boldly. Without that authority, the boldness one exhibits may be the audacity of the Pharisees as easily as the boldness of Jesus.

The more I am listening to Mr. Voris, the more I see the wisdom of the diocese. It is not a matter of speaking boldly, but rather speaking accurately. Sarcasm, exaggeration and name-calling results in a lack of accuracy. It is not boldness, but theater.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

There’s no use trying to exert authority where you have none. It just makes you look foolish. What will they do, excommunicate the corporate entity? Tell the talent he has to quit his job if his bosses don’t change the name?

I don’t think they’re trying to impose canonical sanctions but rather are trying to call attention to the fact that:

1. The organization speaks for no one other then themselves. They are not public representatives of any arm of the Church other than the individuals who make up the organization.
2. Since this organization likes to go after anyone they perceive as slightly deviating from their interpretations/understandings of Catholicism the organization should be held to similar standards. Canon Law specifically calls for the consent of the competent Church authority to call one’s group “Catholic.” The organization should practice what it preaches: follow the canons and teachings of the Church.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I don’t think they’re trying to impose canonical sanctions but rather are trying to call attention to the fact that:

1. The organization speaks for no one other then themselves. They are not public representatives of any arm of the Church other than the individuals who make up the organization.

And I’d like them to do that, most sincerely. And I don’t want to come across as critical of them, but, with the info ITT (which is limited) it seems like a not very efficient way of doing it unless it’s getting a lot of play in the media locally and on the net.

1. Since this organization likes to go after anyone they perceive as slightly deviating from their interpretations/understandings of Catholicism the organization should be held to similar standards. Canon Law specifically calls for the consent of the competent Church authority to call one’s group “Catholic.” The organization should practice what it preaches: follow the canons and teachings of the Church.

Amen to that. And the faithful should refuse to support a site or media outlet that doesn’t.

I’m not a fan of silencing all dissident voices. I do wish more actual representatives of the faith, more priests and brothers and sisters, posted online and did more “apologetics” to keep the true deposit of Faith in front of us.