(Archdiocese of Detroit:) Statement regarding Real Catholic TV and its name

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please return to the topic of the original post

 

[joanofarc2008]

I have seen different episodes where Michael Voris does take things out of context or simply expresses an opinion as what is fact. He also does not seem to be appreciatively critical or wish to look at the positive side when he is doing a subjective test. Granted there have been a few episodes that are good. But for example, his episode on pro-choice politicians. If one were to listen to Michael Voris and read simplicistic quotes one would think that it is that easy to simply deny a pro-choice politician Eucharist. However, if one does an honest study of the subject - if the politician does not self-excommunicate then the Church must excommunicate which is a long and CLOSED process which can also be rectified by the Sacrament of Reconciliation - so the point is that if this did happen we the public would never hear of it anyway. Therefore the process becomes a bit more complicated. So my point is that he takes an emotionally charged subject, oversimplifies it, throws in academic quotes out of context, and calls it RealCatholic TV - gee I wonder why the Arc of Denver asked him to stop.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Can I ask the thread participants a general question? How effective does anyone think this will be? You know, Mother Angelica didn’t call it “Catholic World Television Network.” I wonder if this is why?

So, it kind of makes me wonder why this name was chosen for this enterprise that attacks the Church so often? Does anyone know if, besides here, there’s been much coverage of the issue?

 

[Dale_M]

Can I ask the thread participants a general question? How effective does anyone think this will be? You know, Mother Angelica didn’t call it “Catholic World Television Network.” I wonder if this is why?

According to Raymond Arroyo’s biography of Mother Angelica, in the same year that EWTN began broadcast, the US bishops conference launched a satellite distributed channel called Catholic Telecommunications Network of America. It is possible that she did not want to have the two Catholic channels confused with one another. However, Arroyo specifically writes that the name EWTN reflects “an enterprise born in controversy and founded on principle. It immortalized Mother Angelica’s protest against the film The Word, as well as her unstinting devotion to Jesus Christ, the Eternal Word made flesh.”

 

[JReducation]

I don’t want to get into a discussion about the content of RC-TV, because at the end of the day, that’s not what the canon is about.

The canon is pretty simple. I know, because I have been at the end of this canon. You cannot call a group Catholic without the permission of a bishop. This can be the bishop of the diocese where the owner lives or the bishop of the diocese where the group is based. It’s usually where the group is based; but someone has to ask for permission to use the name Catholic.

There is a difference between a group of Catholics and a Catholic group. For example, Catholics for Choice refers to the individuals, not to the organization. Another example is Catholic Answers or EWTN. These organizations present themselves a Catholic organizations, not as organizations of Catholics. The staff can be atheistic martians; but if they call their apostolate a Catholic apostolate, it must be with the permission of a bishop and they must represent what the Catholic Church teaches.

If I’m understanding this correctly, the bishop is saying that they cannot call themselves Catholic without his permission. I’m also seeing where Mr. Voris says that he has tried to get an appointment to discuss the matter with the bishop and has not been given such appointment.

Here too, I have had experience. Bishops and religious superiors do not want to meet with you to discuss the law, because they can’t change the law. The most they can do is meet with you and repeat the law. It’s very easy for a bishop to wonder what else he can add to the discussion. When it comes to law, there is little to discuss. It says that the laity can and should organize apostolates, but the laity must get the permission of the bishop to call it Catholic.

The concern that bishops always have is that if a group calls itself Catholic and messes up, they have to pick up the pieces. The media quickly jumps to say that the Catholics did or said X. Granting the permission to use the name Catholic is not a guarantee that nothing can go wrong. We know this from experience. However, it does create a working relationship between a particular apostolate and the host diocese.

As to the question of enforcing . . . that’s not really a fair question if you understands how the Church operates. The Church works on an honor system. She assumes that she does not have to enforce things on Catholics, but that we will voluntarily comply. What can the Archbishop do if RC-TV does not comply with the law? He can’t do much to the organization or to the individuals. He can make a public statement to his diocese explaining that this is not a Catholic organization and that Catholics are discouraged from supporting it. This has been done. Then again we go back to the honor system. The Church assumes that the man in the pew will honor his bishop’s request, because at the end of the day, it is the bishop who holds our souls in his hands, not a lay apostolate.

The parish priest shares in the priesthood of the bishop. The religious orders in the diocese are there at the invitation of the bishop. Our parishes, schools and other diocesan ministries are owned by the bishop, regardless of what civil law says. As far as the Church is concerned, all diocesan ministries and institutions are owned by the bishop, not even by the Vatican.

As to the question of criticism that True Light raised. The answer is negative. Canon law is very clear that the faithful (clergy, religious and laity) have the right to express their concerns to proper Church authorities and they have a right to be heard. The Catholic Church has never said that Catholics can mouth off to the world and hang the Church’s dirty laundry on the Internet, TV or other form of media anymore than we should do this to our spouses or families. Nor has the Church ever said that criticism without boundaries is a virtue or a desired behavior. There is a difference between critical thinking and criticism. Criticism can quickly erode into nastiness. Critical thinking, on the other hand, invites people to look at a problem and then problem solve. It’s very positive. It trusts human potential to do the right thing.

Let us stop using the Catherine of Siena myth. Catherine of Siena gets misrepresented on CAF more than anyone I know. The woman never engaged in a public conflict with Church authority. In fact, she punished any member of her community who dared to do so. Everything that we know about Catherine’s interactions with bishops and the pope we know because of letters that were made public long after her death, not because she ever let on that she was engaged in such discussions. She was very discrete.

To recap, I don’t see what the bishop is saying as a judgment of the content. For whatever reason that he does not have to explain to anyone except to RC-TV and to the pope, he feels that it’s time to ask this particular apostolate to comply with the law.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

 

[CathCrusader]

I’m confused? As far as I know, RealCatholic does does not go against any of the church teachings?

The USCCB is angry because several Pro-Life organizations such as the American Life League and Real Catholic TV uncovered a trail of $280 million of collection basket contributions being funneled to organizations supporting abortion and homosexuality via the CCHD. Some of the videos are about a third down on this page:

catholic-voter.com/Pages/Videos.htm

Some Bishops did not want this to get out.

Wishing everyone a very Blessed Christmas

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The USCCB is angry because several Pro-Life organizations such as the American Life League and Real Catholic TV uncovered a trail of $280 million of collection basket contributions being funneled to organizations supporting abortion and homosexuality via the CCHD. Some of the videos are about a third down on this page

For starters, this is not about the USCCB, this is about the archdiocese of Detroit. Secondly, granting for the sake of argument all you wrote is true, does that somehow excuse this organization from following canon law?

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

And I’d like them to do that, most sincerely. And I don’t want to come across as critical of them, but, with the info ITT (which is limited) it seems like a not very efficient way of doing it unless it’s getting a lot of play in the media locally and on the net.

I’m not sure what other way there would be. RCTV is mainly an internet group and I think that the archdiocese’s statement probably is getting plenty of play over the net.

 

[Sirach2]

Julia Mae:

Can I ask the thread participants a general question? How effective does anyone think this will be?

Only a month ago, I posted this here:
“I have just sent a communication to the Archdiocese of Detroit,
I do trust that they have canon lawyers already looking into this, since I’m definitely not the first to voice concern. The Church gives the faithful this right to contact the bishop concerning abuses. IMO, this is very seriously divisive.”

Since they have taken this step, it is likely they will pursue it, Julia, perhaps even to the point of lawful sanctions in view of the serious misrepresentations of church teachings that are being promoted by Voris.

The press release was dated 12/15. The release adds, “For some time, the Archdiocese of Detroit has been in communication with Mr. Michael Voris and his media partner at Real Catholic TV regarding their prominent use of the word ‘Catholic’ in identifying and promoting their public activities disseminated from the enterprise’s production facility in Ferndale, Michigan.”

How long a time is “some” time? If it has only been during the month since I contacted AoD, and only ten days since the press release, I doubt that the AoD was ignoring him, since they initiated communication. It is probable that they will get together after the holidays, since the *machine *indicated the AoD is presently closed.

Another disturbing point to me is the article at Lifesitenews printing only *positive *comments in support of Voris, and *against *the AoD. Surely in 77 comments, there were others in the opposite camp? I did notice that some of the comments were “edited,” showing a real liklihood that negative comments re Voris were removed.

Not even here at CAF is there 100% support for Voris. With that type of media prejudice at Lifesitenews, it demonstrates all the more reason for the AoD to pursue this issue zealously due to the rock-star status of RCTV in dispensing personal interpretations daily and misleading the faithful in many issues. To use a frequent phrase of Voris, MOST, not all [truths.]

.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Merry Christmas all!

Jim

 

[rlg94086]

Merry Christmas all!

Jim

Merry Christmas!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

So you and Aiken disagree with the Spanish Cardinal?

Actually we agree with him when his comments are taken in context.

Mr. Voris is proof texting which is always problematic but that is something he like to do.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Actually we agree with him when his comments are taken in context.

Mr. Voris is proof texting which is always problematic but that is something he like to do.

As a matter of fact isn’t proof texting kind of how some degree of schism started in the first place - very good point Brother - Merry Christmas to you.

 

[CathCrusader]

For starters, this is not about the USCCB, this is about the archdiocese of Detroit. Secondly, granting for the sake of argument all you wrote is true, does that somehow excuse this organization from following canon law?

It is all about the USCCB. If you want to find the truth, watch the 4 videos on the link I provided. I had ordered the programs from RealCatholicTV a few weeks ago, they come with CDs with all the documentation. It is beyond any question the the USCCB funneled $280 million (via CCHD) to organizations whose core philosophy is centered on the propogation child killing and homosexuality. I know its hard to believe, but it would be pointless to discuss it further until you watched the 4 videos (CCHD and Saul Alinsky, Social Injustice and Catholic Campaign For Anti-Catholic Activities parts 1 &2)

catholic-voter.com/Pages/Videos.htm

Wishing all a very Blessed Christmas

 

[JReducation]

It is all about the USCCB. If you want to find the truth, watch the 4 videos on the link I provided. I had ordered the programs from RealCatholicTV a few weeks ago, they come with CDs with all the documentation. It is beyond any question the the USCCB funneled $280 million (via CCHD) to organizations whose core philosophy is centered on the propogation child killing and homosexuality. I know its hard to believe, but it would be pointless to discuss it further until you watched the 4 videos (CCHD and Saul Alinsky, Social Injustice and Catholic Campaign For Anti-Catholic Activities parts 1 &2)

catholic-voter.com/Pages/Videos.htm

Wishing all a very Blessed Christmas

The fact that one group or a group of people do something they should not do, does not change Canon Law.

Every apostolate must have the permission of Church authority to call itself Catholic.

There is a difference between a group of Catholics and a Catholic apostolate. A group of Catholics can do what they want, as long as it does not call its apostolate Catholic.

I went through this when I started a ministry in a certain diocese. I could not call the ministry Catholic until I had written permission to do so. It’s called a Recognitio or a Statement of Praise. It’s called by other names too in some dioceses. Any bishop can grant it and any bishop can take it away too, as was the case with St. Joseph’s Hospital.

There are two ways that you can get it. You can ask for it independently or you can place your work under the umbrella of an approved Catholic apostolate.

For example, if I were to open a soup kitchen, I could keep it independent by asking the local bishop for a Recognitio or I could place it under the umbrella of the Diocesan Office for Social Outreach. In the latter case, I would give the Office oversight. In the former case, I retain oversight, but with the approval of the bishop.

Have a Blessed Christmas!

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

 

[Julia_Mae]

How long a time is “some” time? If it has only been during the month since I contacted AoD, and only ten days since the press release, I doubt that the AoD was ignoring him, since they initiated communication. It is probable that they will get together after the holidays, since the *machine *indicated the AoD is presently closed.

Another disturbing point to me is the article at Lifesitenews printing only *positive *comments in support of Voris, and *against *the AoD. Surely in 77 comments, there were others in the opposite camp? I did notice that some of the comments were “edited,” showing a real liklihood that negative comments re Voris were removed.

.

Well, neither Lifesitenews nor “Real Catholic” are actual media outlets, they are mostly money machines manipulating emotional issues. You know, Voris et al, are using the same tactics as the new evangelical Catholic bashers who whip up hatred and contributions by telling people we suppressed the real churches and changed the Bible. So, their followers feel like they are fighting against an a oppressive corrupt system attacking helpless victims. This is similar: Vorhis characterizes the present hierarchy of the Church as a corrupt modernist system destroying “true” Catholicism. So his followers feel like footsoldiers in a righteous war.

So now we have the problem of the only voices in defense are Catholics in the first case (the identified enemy) and the present Church Hierarchy in the form of the AoD (the identified enemy). And, when the “opposition” (people defending the Church) have their voices repressed in other so-called media like Lifesitenews then we start to have a serious situation. AoD is a local voice with limited power in a secular world. RealCatholic has an international audience, and when profit is the agenda, is unconcerned with creating schism, unfortunately made acceptable in so many people’s eyes by the SSPX.

The Liar at work: divide and conquer.

 

[Sirach2]

What awesome insight, Julia Mae. Thank you for your thoughts on this. I believe there is a lot of truth to your words.

 

[pnewton]

Yet does not the lay apostloate have a job in the world to spread the faith?
And does not Canon Law say lay people can make their opinions known?

Yes the can, but only in accord with canon law. You can not make your opinions known as the “Real Catholic” opinion. Also, I do not think it is his evangelism that is at issue, but the other stuff. Deciding issues through internet rumor, inuendo and media smear is the way of the world, not the Catholic Church.

 

[CathCrusader]

The fact that one group or a group of people do something they should not do, does not change Canon Law.

Every apostolate must have the permission of Church authority to call itself Catholic.

There is a difference between a group of Catholics and a Catholic apostolate. A group of Catholics can do what they want, as long as it does not call its apostolate Catholic.

I went through this when I started a ministry in a certain diocese. I could not call the ministry Catholic until I had written permission to do so. It’s called a Recognitio or a Statement of Praise. It’s called by other names too in some dioceses. Any bishop can grant it and any bishop can take it away too, as was the case with St. Joseph’s Hospital.

There are two ways that you can get it. You can ask for it independently or you can place your work under the umbrella of an approved Catholic apostolate.

For example, if I were to open a soup kitchen, I could keep it independent by asking the local bishop for a Recognitio or I could place it under the umbrella of the Diocesan Office for Social Outreach. In the latter case, I would give the Office oversight. In the former case, I retain oversight, but with the approval of the bishop.

Have a Blessed Christmas!

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

Your argument would make sense if the Bishop went after groups like Catholics For Choice first:

catholicsforchoice.org/

But that is not the case. The USCCB is using the Bishop to go after Pro-Life organizations, just like the USCCB used their liaison Bishop Patrick J. Zurek to take-out Father Frank Pavone.

Wishing everyone a very Blessed Christmas

 

[Julia_Mae]

Your argument would make sense if the Bishop went after groups like Catholics For Choice first:

There is a distinct difference between using the word “Catholic” as an adjective indicating that something represents Catholicism and using “Catholics” as a noun meaning a group of people who belong to the same Church. The second does not fall within the scope of the information Br JR posted.