(Archdiocese of Detroit:) Statement regarding Real Catholic TV and its name

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CathCrusader said:
Your argument would make sense if the Bishop went after groups like Catholics For Choice first:

catholicsforchoice.org/
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Catholics for Choice is not an apostolate. Therefore, it is not subject to Canon Law. Catholics for Choice very deliberately describes itself by its membership. “Catholics” who are for choice.

Their activities fall under the realm of moral law, not canon law. The Church has already handed down a verdict on this. Catholics cannot promote choice.
But that is not the case. The USCCB is using the Bishop to go after Pro-Life organizations, just like the USCCB used their liaison Bishop Patrick J. Zurek to take-out Father Frank Pavone.
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We can’t make such assumptions.

Fr. Pavone’s bishop has the canonical right to recall him to his diocese on a moment’s notice without giving him an explanation. When you are ordained for a diocese or you are incardinated into a diocese, your first obligation is to the diocese. Priests for Life is an apostolate. Apostolates are the proper work of religious orders and the laity, not of the diocesan priests. Diocesan priests who have been involved in apostolates are the exception, not the rule in the Catholic Church.

Secular priests who want to commit to an apostolate join societies of apostolic life such as Maryknoll, Missionhurst, Vincentians, FSSP, ICKSP, or Opus Dei. There are many advantages to being a diocesan priest, but there is also one sacrifice. You owe obedience to the bishop and his work takes priority over any apostolate, even pro-life work.

I suggest that we limit ourselves to the law and not go into the realm of speculation.

A Blessed Christmas Day to all

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
CathCrusader said:
Your argument would make sense if the Bishop went after groups like Catholics For Choice first:

catholicsforchoice.org/

But that is not the case. The USCCB is using the Bishop to go after Pro-Life organizations, just like the USCCB used their liaison Bishop Patrick J. Zurek to take-out Father Frank Pavone.

Wishing everyone a very Blessed Christmas
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Only the bishop where Catholics for Life are based can go after them. Because that bishop has not does not mean that the bishop over the territory where Mr Voris is based should not or can not act.

The USCCB is not using any bishop to do anything. The USCCB really has no power over individual bishops.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Well, neither Lifesitenews nor “Real Catholic” are actual media outlets, they are mostly money machines manipulating emotional issues. You know, Voris et al, are using the same tactics as the new evangelical Catholic bashers who whip up hatred and contributions by telling people we suppressed the real churches and changed the Bible. So, their followers feel like they are fighting against an a oppressive corrupt system attacking helpless victims. This is similar: Vorhis characterizes the present hierarchy of the Church as a corrupt modernist system destroying “true” Catholicism. So his followers feel like footsoldiers in a righteous war.

So now we have the problem of the only voices in defense are Catholics in the first case (the identified enemy) and the present Church Hierarchy in the form of the AoD (the identified enemy). And, when the “opposition” (people defending the Church) have their voices repressed in other so-called media like Lifesitenews then we start to have a serious situation. AoD is a local voice with limited power in a secular world. RealCatholic has an international audience, and when profit is the agenda, is unconcerned with creating schism, unfortunately made acceptable in so many people’s eyes by the SSPX.

The Liar at work: divide and conquer.
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👍
 
pnewton said:
Yes the can, but only in accord with canon law. You can not make your opinions known as the “Real Catholic” opinion. Also, I do not think it is his evangelism that is at issue, but the other stuff. Deciding issues through internet rumor, inuendo and media smear is the way of the world, not the Catholic Church.
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👍
 
Julia_Mae said:
Well, neither Lifesitenews nor “Real Catholic” are actual media outlets, they are mostly money machines manipulating emotional issues. You know, Voris et al, are using the same tactics as the new evangelical Catholic bashers who whip up hatred and contributions by telling people we suppressed the real churches and changed the Bible. So, their followers feel like they are fighting against an a oppressive corrupt system attacking helpless victims. This is similar: Vorhis characterizes the present hierarchy of the Church as a corrupt modernist system destroying “true” Catholicism. So his followers feel like footsoldiers in a righteous war.

So now we have the problem of the only voices in defense are Catholics in the first case (the identified enemy) and the present Church Hierarchy in the form of the AoD (the identified enemy). And, when the “opposition” (people defending the Church) have their voices repressed in other so-called media like Lifesitenews then we start to have a serious situation. AoD is a local voice with limited power in a secular world. RealCatholic has an international audience, and when profit is the agenda, is unconcerned with creating schism, unfortunately made acceptable in so many people’s eyes by the SSPX.

The Liar at work: divide and conquer.
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Great post.

When there is a question, I am sticking with the Hierarchy of the Church.
 
Julia_Mae said:
Well, neither Lifesitenews nor “Real Catholic” are actual media outlets, they are mostly money machines manipulating emotional issues. You know, Voris et al, are using the same tactics as the new evangelical Catholic bashers who whip up hatred and contributions by telling people we suppressed the real churches and changed the Bible. So, their followers feel like they are fighting against an a oppressive corrupt system attacking helpless victims. This is similar: Vorhis characterizes the present hierarchy of the Church as a corrupt modernist system destroying “true” Catholicism. So his followers feel like footsoldiers in a righteous war.

So now we have the problem of the only voices in defense are Catholics in the first case (the identified enemy) and the present Church Hierarchy in the form of the AoD (the identified enemy). And, when the “opposition” (people defending the Church) have their voices repressed in other so-called media like Lifesitenews then we start to have a serious situation. AoD is a local voice with limited power in a secular world. RealCatholic has an international audience, and when profit is the agenda, is unconcerned with creating schism,. unfortunately made acceptable in so many people’s eyes by the SSPX

The Liar at work: divide and conquer.
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seems like you have judged this man and many more in this post. are you capable of reading hearts.
it’s only God can judge people’s intentions.
admonishing the sinner and judging people is different. one is admirable one detestable.
we should all strive for the first and refrain from the second , often difficult to do on these boards. i wonder would you say he is doiing the devil’s work if he called for liberal polices to be adopted by the church. or maybe you agree with everything the church teaches?
 
I find it amusing that a group that purportedly claims to be catholic seems to have no problem violating canon law. If they have received proper authority, then they should disclose who gave the authority. If they don’t have proper authority, they should either seek it or change their name. End of story. This is independent of whether or not one likes the programming, or whether or not they think Michael is competent or not in his videos.
 
I guess that I’m a little perplexed here.

A few years ago, we started out ministry to expectant fathers. We were told that we did not have permission to use the name Catholic. We could call ourselves Catholics for Life or some such thing. But we could not say that we were a Catholic apostolate, which is how we were presenting ourselves.

It never occurred to us that there was anything to discuss with the authorities. What’s there to discuss? The law is the law, unless you want to take the law and put it on trial or unless you believe that the law is being misinterpreted by the person in authority. In that case, you ask for a hearing and a tribunal decides, just like civil law.

But if you believe that the law is clear there is not much to discuss. This is what perplexes me. In our case, we opted to submit the necessary paperwork to receive the permission to use the name Catholic. It took all of three months to get a response. The bishops don’t want to control anything. They ask for the basics: mission statement, delivery model, target population, proof that you can support yourself, proof of need (evangelization should be a no brainer), agreement to work cooperatively with local Church authorities. You retain the oversight of your apostolate. They don’t want to run it. They have enough things to run and a shortage of good people to oversee everything on their plate. They’re happy if there are good people out there who can run some apostolates.

On the other hand, if you don’t want to work with the bishop or bishops, you simply avoid presenting yourself as a Catholic apostolate. You can still be an apostolate run by Catholics. Many Catholics run apostolates that are not formally endorsed by the Church. They’re just not called Catholic. I believe that Catholic Worker is one of those. The term Catholic refers to the individuals who run it, not to the apostolate itself.

Have a Blessed Christmas!

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
JReducation said:
pl

On the other hand, if you don’t want to work with the bishop or bishops, you simply avoid presenting yourself as a Catholic apostolate. You can still be an apostolate run by Catholics. Many Catholics run apostolates that are not formally endorsed by the Church. They’re just not called Catholic. I believe that Catholic Worker is one of those. The term Catholic refers to the individuals who run it, not to the apostolate itself.

Have a Blessed Christmas!

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
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Brother Jay,

I’m a little confused here. How does one present themselves as an “apostolate”? Do you have to actually say, “We are an apostolate?”

In your example of Catholic Worker, It still has Catholic as part of it’s name. Who decides whether the Catholic refers to individuals or an apostolate?

So does that mean as long as an organization does not say “We are an apostolate of the Catholic Church”, they are okay?
 
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JReducation:
It never occurred to us that there was anything to discuss with the authorities. What’s there to discuss? The law is the law, unless you want to take the law and put it on trial or unless you believe that the law is being misinterpreted by the person in authority. In that case, you ask for a hearing and a tribunal decides, just like civil law.

But if you believe that the law is clear there is not much to discuss.
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Thanks again, Brother. If you want a whopping eye-opener with regard to RCTV’s “mission statement” or intent, it is shockingly clear in this video where Voris boasts rather forcibly that RCTV …
“has kept itself free from any entanblements whatsoever in internal church relationships. We are not beholden to ANYONE. We are totally free to say whatever needs to be said.”

Putting it mildly, and then some that I omitted. Scroll to 3:15 minutes.

This may be the very reason for the AoD denying approval for their apostolate from the very beginning.
 
TrueLight said:
Brother Jay,

I’m a little confused here. How does one present themselves as an “apostolate”? Do you have to actually say, “We are an apostolate?”

In your example of Catholic Worker, It still has Catholic as part of it’s name. Who decides whether the Catholic refers to individuals or an apostolate?

So does that mean as long as an organization does not say “We are an apostolate of the Catholic Church”, they are okay?
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You don’t cease to be a Catholic, even a Catholic in good standing, just because you start an apostolate that is not Catholic. Therefore, you may refer to yourself as a Catholic. If there is a group of you, you may refer to yourselves as Catholics. After all, you are Catholics. You can be Catholics for the environment or Catholics for the Latin Liturgy. These are not Catholic apostolates. They have never claimed to be doing the work of the Church or representing Catholicism. They represent themselves and their particular interest and mission.

The moment that you imply that you’re a Catholic apostolate, then you must get permission. For example, when EWTN, to open the doors to all kinds of Catholic preachers, teachers, apologists, catechists and to a new religious community. It wanted to make it perfectly clear to anyone who tuned in that what they were seeing was Catholic, not just the opinion of one Catholic. This required the permission of Church authorities. Mother could give her sisters permission to engage in a Franciscan apostoalte. She’s a major superior. But if she was going to get together a team of people to support the evangelization ministry of the Church, then she would need to inform the Church and get her blessing. This is done through a bishop.

I don’t want to get into what Mr. Voris said or his boss said. That’s not the question on the table. I’m interested in how they’re going to proceed, because I never knew that they did not have permission to call themselves a Catholic apostolate.

A blessed Christmas

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:
 
Sirach2 said:
Thanks again, Brother. If you want a whopping eye-opener with regard to RCTV’s “mission statement” or intent, it is shockingly clear in this video where Voris boasts rather forcibly that RCTV …
“has kept itself free from any entanblements whatsoever in internal church relationships. We are not beholden to ANYONE. We are totally free to say whatever needs to be said.” .
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Contrary to Mr. Voris’ speech, I’m pretty sure that they’re ‘beholden’ to Cardinal Burke for his patronage. His eminence has blessed everything in their office-studio, including their website, and I have a feeling RCTV and its major players would be upset if his (as well as other sympathetic prelates) support were to wane over an issue like this.
 
LiveCatholic said:
Contrary to Mr. Voris’ speech, I’m pretty sure that they’re ‘beholden’ to Cardinal Burke for his patronage. His eminence has blessed everything in their office-studio, including their website, and I have a feeling RCTV and its major players would be upset if his (as well as other sympathetic prelates) support were to wane over an issue like this.
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Yet Cardinal Burke has no authority to approve this group as he is not their ordinary. They are based in the Archdiocese Detroit which makes their ordinary Archbishop Vigneron.
 
ByzCath said:
Yet Cardinal Burke has no authority to approve this group as he is not their ordinary. They are based in the Archdiocese Detroit which makes their ordinary Archbishop Vigneron.
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yes so if he moves his office to cardinal burke’s diocess and gets his permission to use the word real catholic then there is no issue.
 
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