Are Catholics too high and mighty and overly judgemental?

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If you are looking for a “catholicism” that will morph and change to meet your definition of morality, let me enlighten you - there is no such thing. God has told us what he expects of us, and it is up to us to meet those expectations, not the other way around.
That is exactly why I became Catholic. As a protestant, I was told “it’s all between you and God” with no judgements. So I continued to do things that were sins. The protestant church’s I attended were changing to fit in to society. Politically correct Hymnals, referring to God as she, openly gay ministers, etc. The Catholic church tries to change society to come back to the teachings of Jesus. Isn’t that what we are here to do? Enlighten people to what Jesus wants us to do? People leave the church because there are other churches that will tell them what they want to hear and let them do what they want to do. Telling them it’s OK because it’s “all between you and God”. I don’t think they purposely mislead people, but it is a very dangerous road.

I can be pretty pushy sometimes when it comes to the Church, but the rules are for a purpose. Our time on earth is very short compared with eternity with Christ. I’ll suffer a bit now, for my eternity later.

Peace
 
Midwest mom i agree with that and i am not completely innocent of calling my parents Catholic lite or diet Catholic (theyre episcopalian) however i do feel in order to have a truly personal relationship with Jesus one would have to have a little between “you and God” things. theres certain things that the church would judge me for, but because i pray and meditate and confess to a priest i believe i am forgiven and still loved by God and that that loving and forgiving relationship is between me and God. i only became a Catholic a year ago, i was raised baptist and then went to the episcopal church with my parents when they converted. i was never baptised and refused to be until i found where i fit in. i believed that the Catholic faith was it and still do, however i was raised to never believe something just because i was told to, i research what i dont understand pray on it and discuss it with the priest in confession and with God during my meditation time. i feel i know God as a father and a friend. what drew me to the Catholic church was the beauty and reverence they had for God, but i hope that someday we do become less fire and brimstone as people and more love and forgiveness.
 
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TarAshly:
ferla i appreciate the advice but its unnecesary thank you. i meant it as a joke, again i would ask you to keep in mind what i was told that tone is hard to tell in a chat forum. it was a joke.
Affirmative…but, you can communicate tone, just click on the smily face icon at the menu selection and flavor/caricature your response…😉 Also bold & italic and underline and font…
 
thanks im pretty new to chat forums so im still test driving it you could say.
 
midwest mom:
I can be pretty pushy sometimes when it comes to the Church, but the rules are for a purpose. Our time on earth is very short compared with eternity with Christ. I’ll suffer a bit now, for my eternity later.
MidwestMom–That’s a great sentiment! Thanks for sharing it! I am always impressed by the faithful Catholics who converted as adults. I learn so much from interacting with you converts. God bless you.
 
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TarAshly:
Midwest mom i agree with that and i am not completely innocent of calling my parents Catholic lite or diet Catholic (theyre episcopalian) however i do feel in order to have a truly personal relationship with Jesus one would have to have a little between “you and God” things.** theres certain things that the church would judge me for, but because i pray and meditate and confess to a priest i believe i am forgiven and still loved by God and that that loving and forgiving relationship is between me and God.** i only became a Catholic a year ago, i was raised baptist and then went to the episcopal church with my parents when they converted. i was never baptised and refused to be until i found where i fit in. i believed that the Catholic faith was it and still do, however i was raised to never believe something just because i was told to, i research what i dont understand pray on it and discuss it with the priest in confession and with God during my meditation time. i feel i know God as a father and a friend. what drew me to the Catholic church was the beauty and reverence they had for God, but i hope that someday we do become less fire and brimstone as people and more love and forgiveness.
This is what we are trying to convey to you, and I’m conmtinuing to post out of love for my fellow sojourner, not out of spite.

The boldface sentence above is simply incompatible with Catholic doctrine. While we believe in the unconditional forgiveness of God’s love, we also believe that we cannot continue to act in defiance of God’s expectations of us.

The Catechism instructs us:
1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

On the issue of forgiveness, the CCC notes:
1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51
Thus, we cannot be forgiven by force of our own will unless we are truly contrite for our sins. You now have received sufficient informatio to have a properly informed conscience. The rest, as they say, is up to you.
 
to Err is human to forgive Divine. its not your opinion im worried about its Gods and he knows me and you dont. dont be concerned for me, im fine God and i are fine with each other. i confessed last night, i prayed and i meditated and i know God has forgiven me, and hes proud of me for trying to make the changes, your are one of the examples of fire and brimstone i was talking about, why not preach Gods love and Forgiveness and his Grace and his Mercy rather than his rath or unforgiveness neither of these i believe he posesses, unless absolutley called for, (rath) i believe he is infantatly forgiving and loving no matter who or what the sin.
 
You keep saying that you asked for advice, not a lecture. But why ask for advice if you are going to dismiss anything that’s not the answer you wanted to hear?
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TarAshly:
i was raised to never believe something just because i was told to, i research what i dont understand pray on it and discuss it with the priest in confession and with God during my meditation time.
If this is true, please research the abortifacient effects of chemical contraception such as the pill, for the sake of your soul and those of any potential children. If this hasn’t come up in either your marriage preparation or confession, then your deacon and priest are either naive about the circumstances of you living with your fiance or irresponsible.

BTW, my wife said you had me pegged: I CAN be grouchy and high-and-mighty…but I do it because I care! :love:
 
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TarAshly:
… im fine God and i are fine with each other. i confessed last night, i prayed and i meditated and i know God has forgiven me …why not preach Gods love and Forgiveness and his Grace and his Mercy rather than his rath or unforgiveness neither of these i believe he posesses, unless absolutley called for, (rath) i believe he is infantatly forgiving and loving no matter who or what the sin.
Faith is not in its essence is not a Me and God thing…He is a Triune God… that’s three, community at its core, not an autonomous dyad of private knowing and intimacy–this would go against His nature. It is highly subjective (and presumptuous) of you to delare/impose you projection of who you think/want God to be onto God … He is infinite mercy and love, and also infinite justice…this He cannot change, always ready to forgive, but not able to force His love or forgiveness onto to others, while not able to deny His truth and justice that sin needs to be condemned and punished by the unrepentent sinner…this is reality, this is the basic stuff of the Catholic/Christian faith.
 
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TarAshly:
i believe the term “jerk” was warranted. if you read all of the posts you would see us living apart is not an option. as of now we live as room mates. hes 6’1 sleeping on a love seat. im cognizant but i dont condemn myself for making a mistake we are all human. just because i posed this question or feel the way i feel doesnt mean im in a state of mortal sin either. it is also a sin to judge. even Jesus forgave a prostitute. im living NOW as roomates with the man i love and the only man i’ve ever “known” i think thats a lot different than a prostitute, yet we are supposed to be Christ like and i was berated for seeking spiritual help and guidance? doesnt make sense to me.
I* believe He told the prostitute to “Go and sin no more.” *
As far as living with your fiance’, we should avoid the occassion of sin.
And, yes, it is also wrong to judge, but you asked for opinions & you got them.

Shannin
 
shannin said:
And, yes, it is also wrong to judge, but you asked for opinions & you got them.

The funny part is that she did not ask for opinions in the original thread.
 
Penny Plain:
The funny part is that she did not ask for opinions in the original thread.
Yeah, but her original thread got deleted (presumably for cause)! And she is still trying to get everybody to agree with her. At what point is she going to accept that not everybody is going to agree with her (especially when she is raising issues that are contrary to Catholic teaching)?
 
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TarAshly:
to Err is human to forgive Divine. its not your opinion im worried about its Gods and he knows me and you dont. dont be concerned for me, im fine God and i are fine with each other. i confessed last night, i prayed and i meditated and i know God has forgiven me, and hes proud of me for trying to make the changes, your are one of the examples of fire and brimstone i was talking about, why not preach Gods love and Forgiveness and his Grace and his Mercy rather than his rath or unforgiveness neither of these i believe he posesses, unless absolutley called for, (rath) i believe he is infantatly forgiving and loving no matter who or what the sin.
Not Catholic doctrine.

Why do you keep bringing up forgiveness, as if I’m somehow incapable of forgiving? It’s not up to me to forgive you, and nowhere in my posts have I ever questioned God’s love for you or His ability to forgive you unconditionally.

But to successfully seek God’s forgiveness one must have a contrite heart and be resolved to sin no more. Continuing to live in a sinful relationship is inconsistent with a contrite heart, and inconsistent with the absolution to sin no more.

I’m not saying God can’t or won’t forgive you, but Catholic teaching tells us it is absolutely presumptiuous of you to believe that He did grant you forgiveness if you aren’t keeping your end of the bargain.

If you are seeking Catholic catechesis, you’ve come to the right place, and we’ll try to help. But if you simply want to tell us what you think Catholism ought to be as far as you’re concerned, then you can expect responses to match.
 
pennys right i didnt ask for opinions i asked for support. and my relationship with God is just that. MINE. its not for you to judge or interpret. my situation is not something im going to discuss anymore as i said earlier, im not getting any help from here. my Deacon is not naive is aware of our situation and the medical reason i use BCP he even prayed over me right before my operation. hes not naive hes a loving and supportive kind man and if we had more church leaders like him i think we wouldnt have such a bad rep among the non Catholic community, even the Catholic community and especially the younger generation.
 
La Chiara:
Yeah, but her original thread got deleted (presumably for cause)! And she is still trying to get everybody to agree with her. At what point is she going to accept that not everybody is going to agree with her (especially when she is raising issues that are contrary to Catholic teaching)?
In the original thread, she asked for advice. A couple people took the opportunity to admonish her about things they thought were wrong with her life and her morals. Some even went to the point of telling her she shouldn’t get married.

She got her feelings hurt. I don’t blame her.

Some of the things people said were judgmental and just plain nasty. Some of the things they are saying in this thread are, too.

She is our sister in the faith. She asked us to help her make the best of an awkward and potentially dangerous situation. What advice have we given her to help her do that? Have we phrased it in a way that she will listen to?
 
Penny Plain:
In the original thread, she asked for advice. A couple people took the opportunity to admonish her about things they thought were wrong with her life and her morals. Some even went to the point of telling her she shouldn’t get married.

She got her feelings hurt. I don’t blame her.

Some of the things people said were judgmental and just plain nasty. Some of the things they are saying in this thread are, too.

She is our sister in the faith. She asked us to help her make the best of an awkward and potentially dangerous situation. What advice have we given her to help her do that? Have we phrased it in a way that she will listen to?
Did you bother reading any of my posts, or do you just lump all responses into one big unhappy pile?
 
im not trying to get everyone to agree with me in fact i stopped the discussion of my personal life first thing this morning. what im simply doing is bringing to light the “problems” that myself and my friends and some of my students have brought to my attention, i dont know how to answer them so i direct them to a priest or their parents but for my own knowledge im just trying to get some anwers. it seems YOU wont be satisfied until i agree with you. God also said “ask and you shall recieve, seek and you shall find” in confession yesterday i asked my priest about this and he said God gives us the will and desire and ability to question and recieve knowledge and it would be wrong not to use that.
 
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TarAshly:
im not trying to get everyone to agree with me in fact i stopped the discussion of my personal life first thing this morning. what im simply doing is bringing to light the “problems” that myself and my friends and some of my students have brought to my attention, i dont know how to answer them so i direct them to a priest or their parents but for my own knowledge im just trying to get some anwers. it seems YOU wont be satisfied until i agree with you. God also said “ask and you shall recieve, seek and you shall find” in confession yesterday i asked my priest about this and he said God gives us the will and desire and ability to question and recieve knowledge and it would be wrong not to use that.
No, YOU won’t be satisfied until WE agree with YOU.

We, on the other hand, are only trying to enlighten you as to true, correct, and Catholic teaching.

So, who’s being judgmental?
 
The Barrister:
Did you bother reading any of my posts, or do you just lump all responses into one big unhappy pile?
Awfully sensitive, aren’t we?
 
that was awfully mature Barrister " no you are, no you are i know you are but what am i?" are we accomplishing anything here. whos to say your handle of teachings is the right one, like i said earlier i dont believe anything im just told until i look into and meditate and pray on it, only then do i come to a decision, if you say something i find worth it i would spend some time looking into it, but until you quit trying to father me and lecture me over something i specifically and respectfully asked not to discuss anymore i cant take anything you say for any kind of merit.
 
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