Are non-Catholics and Protestants who pulled Catholics away from their Catholic Faith, in danger of going to Hell?

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someotherguy said:
Precisely the problem with the Roman Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness. Once you understand that being born again means that you have a new nature, you can no more reject your salvation that a fish can reject being a fish.
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Do you believe that being born again means you can no longer sin?
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello historyb,

First of all, I agree with you to a certain extant, in that, it is true that everything is by God’s will, including our salvation, so why do so many assume their Salvation is guaranteed? It is not up to them to decide, based on their own personal interpretation of the Bible, whether or not they have gained salvation; it is up to God…right?

It is assured to those of us who are Christians.
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I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand

John 10:28-29
Jimmy_B said:
Secondly, God created humans with free will…this includes the free will to rejected God and reject our salvation…right?

Short sound bites and fancy catch phrases are not going to get anybody into heaven.

Neither God nor the Bible can be summed-up by a handful of bible verses, or catch phrases, nor should they be… right?

Peace 🙂
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I don’t buy freewill thing, when we are lost we are lost entirely. We can’t even begin to want out because that is all we know, once God calls us there is nothing that can take us out of his hands.

30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Eph. 4:30
 
someotherguy said:
Precisely the problem with the Roman Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness. Once you understand that being born again means that you have a new nature, you can no more reject your salvation that a fish can reject being a fish.
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Hello there, “so please tell me what being born again means” ? thank you.
 
someotherguy said:
Precisely the problem with the Roman Catholic doctrine of infused righteousness. Once you understand that being born again means that you have a new nature, you can no more reject your salvation that a fish can reject being a fish.
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How do you know this?

All human beings can and do sin. Are you asserting that something “magical” happens to a person who is "born again’ and that, at that point they lose their free will and will no longer commit sin?

These may be comforting words for some but they are in direct conflict with what is actually written in the Bible.

The hope of salvation (a Catholic belief) is comforting but it doesn’t lack the motivation to be a good Christian. Where is the motivation in your words? These are the words of a man (not you personally) who wants to have God on his terms and not on God’s terms…

Not everybody is going to heaven…And by our own sin; we can turn away from God. In order for a sin to be forgiven, one must ask for forgiveness.

Is the Christian requirement to ask God for forgiveness, no longer valid once a person is “born again”? I don’t think so…

Peace 🙂
 
historyb said:
Of course we still sin, once we are Christians we don’t have the desire to sin.
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I wouldn’t go so far as to say that we don’t still have the desire to sin, but that our attitude is toward sin is much different.

Whereas, before, we gladly served sin, we now recognize our tendency toward it, but fight against it, and instead of reveling in it, like we once did, we’re now heartbroken by it.

I like the way Todd Friel describes it as being the difference between falling into a lake and diving into a lake.
 
someotherguy said:
Right. And I pointed out where the Bible says that our works are no good.
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James 2:14-24
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way,** faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.**
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18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
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19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
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20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24**You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. **
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I don’t know how it gets any clearer than that.
 
historyb said:
Of course we still sin, once we are Christians we don’t have the desire to sin.
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Thanks for answering, but I was asking the other person his definition…

My point being, we aren’t just “born again” once, and that’s it, we’re done.
 
Pier said:
Thanks for answering, but I was asking the other person his definition…

My point being, we aren’t just “born again” once, and that’s it, we’re done.
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The Bible says that we are.
 
someotherguy said:
Been over this one a couple of times now.
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Still waiting for you to please cite the passage that proves the context that James 2:24 is written for Old Covenant believers and not to the Christian community who are “under the law of freedom.”
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Jimmy_B said:
Are non-Catholics and Protestants who pulled Catholics away from their Catholic Faith, in danger of going to Hell?
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It’s not in our place to know. God, in his infinite wisdom, will ensure that all people end up where they belong.
 
someotherguy said:
Been over this one a couple of times now.
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someotherguy,

There are more scriptures citing works or deeds as written in the Bible.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds.

Please tell us where it says James 2:24 is for old covenant believers?
 
wow said:
someotherguy,

There are more scriptures citing works or deeds as written in the Bible.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds.
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Yep, addressed that one already.
 
someotherguy said:
Yep, addressed that one already.
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I’ve read back through this thread and find that this was just posted.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds.

You answered you already addressed this one. Please help me out. Where was it posted and addressed?

Also, we’re trying to respond as best we can but you seem to be avoiding answering our questions. Please tell us where it says that James 2:24 was written for Old Covenant believers?
 
wow said:
Also, we’re trying to respond as best we can but you seem to be avoiding answering our questions. Please tell us where it says that James 2:24 was written for Old Covenant believers?
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Who are the two Bible characters mentioned in that passage?
 
someotherguy said:
Who are the two Bible characters mentioned in that passage?
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You answer a question with a question?

Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

I don’t see any particular characters mentioned in this passage. It mentions man. Am I missing something here?
 
someotherguy said:
Who are the two Bible characters mentioned in that passage?
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Ok I see you’ve added other “passages” to it.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou that faith did cooperate with his works and by works faith was made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?

Seems he finishes the story up by asking, “Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?” I think you might be reading it wrong. It seems to me he’s using Abraham and Issac as examples to get his point across.
 
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