Are We a Nation of Liars?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mercyalways
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
My favourite:
“This claim of election fraud is disputed”
Yeah, because by definition, all claims of fraud are disputed.
 
That’s not the same as lying to millions of people over and over again to con them into voting for you.
 
Trump is hardly the first or even worst liar we’ve had in office.
I would hate to decide who was the worst liar.

I only mention Trump because he is the one behind all the “truths” mentioned in the article. Those “truths” go hand in hand with distrust, not with trust, which makes this essay so caught up in tension.

I am not suggesting any alternatives to Trump, just that his “truths” require you not to trust and that truth and trust go together.
I remember being told if I liked my doctor I could keep my doctor. That there were WMD’s in Iraq, that he did not have sexual relations with that woman, no new taxes, etc. etc.
There are some differences among these. WMD and sexual relations are factual statements that are true or false. They are lies if they are known to be false by the speaker, not just if they are not true.

Keeping your doctor and no new taxes are policy positions, not facts. They are lies if there was never an intent to implement them, not just if they are never enacted.

You can disagree with any of this. It is all just my opinion. I am only trying to build on what the essay said.
 
It began in about 1968 with me. As to the case in point, being from Chicago, the ex-president was Alinsky-trained as a “community organizer” - what is the purpose of that except to force change? Classic ends justifying the means. At some point, the means become an end unto themselves.

Consider the Crusades as they “progressed” - innumerable mistakes, sins - were committed. Every war begins with some justification, but justification is fabricated as time passes. When the means of communication can be brought to ally themselves with a movement, only patience is then needed.

Good becomes evil and…
 
What do you mean, it is everyone’s favorite.
 
Last edited:
That’s why I’m a monarchist. Kings don’t have to lie
Historically that’s not true.
The response must be to turn away from Trump’s lies. As long as we trust Trump, we cannot trust anyone else.
Trump is a convienient scapegoat, but the media and other politicans aren’t innocent.
 
Last edited:
Oh how low Crisis Magazine has fallen to spout off this completely debunked NONSENSE.

Not even fit for the bottom of the birdcage.
 
Our nation has been led by a liar who repeatedly has said we cannot trust the media and public figures
His latest lie is that the entire judiciary is in it it too, which is why he’s losing all his cases. Couldn’t possibly be because the cases would all get failing grades in moot court let alone an actual court.

He’s losing because he has no case.

He’s on the grift, using these lawsuits he knows are baseless to convince his . . . followers to give money to his slush fund super PAC.

Follow the money people.
 
Last edited:
I don’t know that we are a nation of liars. I do know that I have repeatedly found the liberal news media to lie like a rug; and I have seen the conservative news media spin matters, in part by failure to provide all details.

What i am inclined to say is that we have a nation who for the greatest part has no - as in zero - ability to think critically. And I am seeing that working out on a local basis with city politicians - most particularly Democratic ones - who are blindly accepting the mantra emanating from two organizations which appear to be most active where there is local Democrat majority political leadership.

Being lied to doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the (relatively) massive idiocy I see being perpetrated on local citizens concerning both race issues and criminal justice issues (meaning both policing and prison issues). And the lies (as well as the information which contradicts these lies - but is not even whispered about) is going to result in a rapid deterioration of a number of cities, Seattle appearing to be leading the charge, with Portland and New York City right behind them.

And that does not even begin to scratch the surface of problems we are having in terms of any honest and truth based conversations about issues such as critical race theory, intersectionality, systemic racism, cancel culture (now reaching out to destroy employability) - and the list goes on and on.

When we have “news” organizations who cannot avoid editorializing facts - picking and choosing what they will or will not report and then spinning it, I am way, way less bothered by politicians than I am in the reporting - or lack thereof of what politicians do and say, or don’t do and don’t say.
 
He’s losing because he has no case.
I practiced law long enough to know that losing a case does not mean that one had no case - that is why we have appellate courts (and being in the 9th Circuit, knowing that appellate courts are not impervious to making wrong decisions either).

He may well have cases, the final determination of which may well be that factually the case was correct, but that it would not change the overall results.

While I have not followed it carefully, my understanding is that in Pennsylvania there is a case not brought by the Trump team, which indicates that the decision to provide wide mail-in ballots may have violated the state constitution. Assuming for the moment that to be the case, it leaves a number of possible scenarios, most of which are either unpalatable or would not in the end affect the final results of Biden winning.

There is absolutely no question that there is evidence of fraud, much of which appears to be the problematic issues of rushing to a mail ballot process. It also appears that even if every last bit of fraud could be found and those votes pulled, the election results would not change enough to overturn the election results.

It is also my understanding that the attorney generals of both Washington and Oregon sent out letters indicating that it took both states 4 to 5 years to be able to work the kinks and problems of mail in balloting, and that other jurisdictions should not rush into it. And both attorney generals are Democrat.
 
losing a case does not mean that one had no case
True, but having no case usually explains why one has lost. Trump has had no case in PA. Judge Brann, active in the Federalist Society before becoming a judge, described the case as haphazardly cobbled together from other suits. Judge Bihas, appointed by Trump to the 3rd Circuit, dismissed the appeal writing “Calling the election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.”

When we say Trump has no case, it is because he has no case. It is not knee jerk criticism of Trump motivated by antipathy to Trump. It is simply true. It is consistent with his past behavior and it should be a lesson for those who have believed him in the past. Empty words.
Being lied to doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the (relatively) massive idiocy I see being perpetrated on local citizens concerning both race issues and criminal justice issues (meaning both policing and prison issues). And the lies (as well as the information which contradicts these lies - but is not even whispered about) is going to result in a rapid deterioration of a number of cities, Seattle appearing to be leading the charge, with Portland and New York City right behind them.

And that does not even begin to scratch the surface of problems we are having in terms of any honest and truth based conversations about issues such as critical race theory, intersectionality, systemic racism, cancel culture (now reaching out to destroy employability) - and the list goes on and on.
I agree with all of this, probably from the opposite side. I hope that Seattle and Portland and NYC will be the forerunners of a world with fewer lies, but I can see why you might see it as deterioration. You see that because of the distrust built into your worldview, I think. It is what Hudson is talking about.
 
I agree with all of this, probably from the opposite side. I hope that Seattle and Portland and NYC will be the forerunners of a world with fewer lies, but I can see why you might see it as deterioration. You see that because of the distrust built into your worldview, I think. It is what Hudson is talking about.
Every single peer reviewed study of policing has shown that having more police on the street lowers crime. I do not know of any peer reviewed study showing that having fewer police on the street reduces crime.

The mantra is fewer police and more social workers. The day that the Seattle city council voted to defund the police, a social worker went out on a call for someone mentally unstable and making threats. The social worker was knifed to death.

So Seattle, how is the plan working out for you?

I don’t question that policing cannot be improved; nor am I so naïve as to believe we do not have some bad police - but the mantra on the street is a mish-mash of lies and half truths hidden behind more lies and half truths. I am all for better policing, but better policing is not going to be accomplished by defunding the police. It actually takes more funding - for training in better methods, more equipment (I am particularly supportive of body cameras) and more police.

Seattle was under a Federal order to correct problems and processes, and had a police chief with a national reputation for being able to bring that about. They were already below necessary force levels and offering large bonuses to attract more police - and struggling in their recruiting. As of a report from yesterday, they are now further reduced by 14%+ since the defunding process started and are likely to have more losses; they lost their police chief when the council refused to allow police to use normal riot control measures; she stood up to them and refused to send the police out unprotected, and has since resigned to take another position elsewhere. Even recruits who received the large bonuses are resigning and moving elsewhere. And after she resigned, Seattle moved to reduce pay for senior (command) officers by $40,000. Each.

It is not a matter of my world view to see that reducing police will not stop or reduce crime. I did criminal defense work, and given that one of the traits that was consistent with my clients and other criminals is that they are impulsive in their acts; giving them reason to think they will not be caught is not going to de-escalate their impulsiveness.

Portland, as part of the defund the Police movement, eliminated the Gun Reduction Team - complaints were from some individuals in the Balk community that the police were “always in our community”. In the period of June through September, 2019 there were 35 shootings in the Black community.

After the team was ended in June of 2020, and to the end of September, 2020, there were 100 shootings in the black community.

That is not “my world view” - those are facts.
 
Last edited:
When it comes to mainstream media FOX are the biggest liars in the country!
 
The only way to rebuild trust is to reconstruct the truth. Truth and trust go together, and the absence of trust has come from the absence of truth.
And do you think Pres.-Elect Biden and VP-Elect Harris will reconstruct the truth?

It’s a trick question–I don’t believe it, and here’s why. These two are willing to swallow the lie that the unborn are not human and can be killed at will by any woman for any reason.

If someone is willing to live, breathe, and propagate that lie, then what else are they lying about?

I agree with the author–I do not trust the news media at all. I don’t think we have that many journalists around anymore–we have “bloggers” who don’t report facts, but present “viewpoints.” They do most of their research online, have little contact with “regular folks” and when they do make contact, they are able to filter the interview and only use those comments that agree with the popular POV, or that make the “regular folk” look like a yayhoo.

They make a very large salary, and are considered “stars” rather than “journalists” by their media promoters and by the public, especially young people.
 
Last edited:
That is not “my world view” - those are facts.
We have a shooting every day in our small, Northern Illinois city.

We had a shooting on Thanksgiving morning. 1 man died, the other is fighting for his life.

The largest portion of our property taxes (4th highest in the nation) goes to the public schools–which have tried countless programs over the decades to combat racism, develop self-confidence and a work ethic among the poor, the minorities, the children of immigrants, etc. Whatever they’re doing with our money, it isn’t working. 50% of African American young men drop out of high school. These young men all too often end up involved with gang/mob crime and sadly, often end up dead or in prison.

I do not know what the answer is, but I will say that if the police force were “defunded,” certain sections of our city would become war zones between the gangs–literal “no-man’s land.”

We have an African American County States Attorney who has courageously stood up for the police and their work, and steadfastly faces constant criticism from African American elitists who accuse her of reverse racism and all the rest. She is a rock that I admire immensely.

I know that there are new ways of thinking about race relations in this country and it is important that we continue to work through the injustices that have been perpertrated not just in the past, but fairly recently (lynchings were still fairly common in the 1930s, and most African American families have a memory of at least one family member who was lynched)

But at this time, it’s almost impossible to hold any conversation about race without a liberal viewpoint taking over and drowning out a more complete view of the entire history. These conversations, IMO, often end up doing more harm than good, and reinforcing stereotypes.

E.g., I will freely admit that I am not buying “racial injustice” in the public schools in the last 20 years or so when I think of all the tax money that has been poured into our public schools, and all the “anti-racism programs” that have been tried (and given up on), and all the reconciliatory work that has been done by everyone from pastors and priests to counsellors to doctors to musicians and artists–and still there are outbreaks of racial violence, mainly black against black.

I will go out on a limb and reveal my “white supremacy attitude” by saying that there comes a time when we must take some personal responsibility and do what we must do to make our lives better.

In case anyone is wondering, my husband and I live on a busy street right smack in the middle of the city, in one of the “older” sections with mainly older homes (ours is a 60 year-old ranch style home) and I would say that our neighborhood (about 9 streets) is about 1/3 African American, about 1/3 Hispanic, about 1/6 Middle Eastern, and about1/6 white, mainly older folks like us. It’s a fun neighborhood where everyone seems to get along and look out for each other. I wish the whole city were like this.
 
I will go out on a limb and reveal my “white supremacy attitude” by saying that there comes a time when we must take some personal responsibility and do what we must do to make our lives better.
We have become a nation of “rights” with no discussion, it seems, or “responsibilities”.

There is a problem (and I am not positing it is the only one - just that it is an extremely serious one)
within the Black communities no one seems willing to discuss.

From an NPR program in about 2015 - 2016, it was noted that in 1975 25% of Black babies were born without any father. By 2015, over 70% were born to single family homes, and it now appears to be closer to 77%. There have been more than an ample number of studies showing the importance of a father in the home; and as Women tend more to the nurturing side and men more to the disciplinary side, it is not rocket science to see the impact.

I have no possible clue as to how the gets rectified. And you are right; by the age 12 to 14, young Black boys are joining gangs, which is often seen as the need for a "father figure’ type relationship.

Further, Blacks constitute about 13% of the US population, but they also have an abortion rate of somewhere between 25% to 36% of all abortions’.

I have had first person comments about the chaos in schools with a significant population of Black students, which boots right back to the issue of discipline being taught and enforced in the family home. One can play a blame game, but the kids who are not taught discipline, and who have no effective disciplinary person in the home are the results, not the source of the problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top