Are We a Nation of Liars?

[mcq72]

Trump and his cronies used the words “widespread fraud”.

Yep, so does the media. " There is no evidence of widespread fraud". I have yet to hear a proper rebuttal of not even selective fraud.

Court cases again are only in a relatively few counties out our 3000.

Yet this is different than other elections. The recent use of computers and the covid induced change of mail ins can make the process less verifiable and potentially fraudulent on a state level( widespread?) like never before.

I now believe the effort to do away with voter ID, and change mail in procedure was tactical to any premeditated manipulation.

Words have meaning , even double meanings. Did not Pelosi state that you can’t leave his election in hands of voters, and Shumer saying " everything is on the table"?

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Let’s look at it this way: Any party that could pull off an ultra-complex fraud on the scale Trump is claiming would be so competent, so organized, and so able to coordinate thousands of people (in secret! of both parties!) that they should run the country. If such a party existed, I would take my hat off to them.

 

[gam197]

They want to look at Pennsylvania and Georgia on voter fraud issues.

On a separate issue they want to question the use of voting machines but so did the Democrats when Amy Klobuchar addressed that in 2019.

 

[mcq72]

If you listen, they deny the possibility of any fraud sufficient to alter the outcome, not the possibility of any fraud.

That is true, but most soundbites do not go to that detail. I would say 9 out of ten soundbites do not. The more you repeat a lie…

The systems in place today can count the votes with 95% accuracy guaranteed. That is good enough for most elections. In most places the accuracy is higher.

Agree, that error can occur. Error has historically been higher with mail ins. It was high during primaries. It is higher with new unlegislated ( illegal?) rules some states used for mail ins this election. Again only need smaller percentage than 5% to sway an election.

Very difficult to convict the election this close of being fair…too much reasonable doubt.

 

[mcq72]

Let’s look at it this way: Any party that could pull off an ultra-complex fraud on the scale Trump is claiming would be so competent, so organized, and so able to coordinate thousands of people (in secret! of both parties!) that they should run the country. If such a party existed, I would take my hat off to them.

Again, you only need 0.3% of manipultion to swing this election.

Also it seems the few people that have come forward with fraud tales have been ignored. How many do you need to be God fearing and repent, and come forward, for you to “see”?

PS…only by the grace of God does anyone “see”…by myself I am very nieve to the ills of our beloved country…find it easier to believe someone is lying when they say our government and elections can act fraudulently…it is ugly and I don’t want to see it…reminds me also how i don’t like to read about how beloved saints had flaws or our founding forefathers, or our priests and some of our popes…not pretty, but there we all go but by the grace of God.

 

[Jeanne_S]

How rude!I am neither poor or dumb.Nor are any Trump supporters.Now that this forum is coming to an end,so is any measure of Christian charity.

 

[Peeps]

Trump and his cronies used the words “widespread fraud” and applied them to the battleground states he lost.
It’s complete nonsense of course. 35 cases dismissed or thrown out now including appeals because no facts or evidence has been presented.
Trump is just a cry baby sore loser.

My husband, a decent Christian man, managed to acquire 4 ballots.

He could have filled all four of them out and mailed them in.

He didn’t because he’s a decent Christian man.

But if he was able to acquire extra ballots, so were others.

And I think that at least some of those people did fill in their extra ballots and mail them in.

Just one example of how this election could have been swayed.

Now I agree with you that Pres. Trump probably did lose–although not by much. And what Pres.-Elect Biden has acquired is a nation that is divided almost 50/50–and God help him deal successfully with that.

Most of us are willing to go along with higher taxes (although we will smoulder with rage) and increased involvement with climate change policies (although we will balk if it costs jobs and takes away our retirement investments), but certain other policy stands that Biden/Harris have taken; e.g., abortion on demand, various foreign policies, BLM/police defunding policies, etc. are not going to fly with many of us, just as certain policies didn’t fly with the 50% of people who disagreed with Pres. Trump.

Nope–under Pres. Biden/VP Harris, the nation will not be more “calm” and “unified.” It will just be a different half of the population dissenting. Unfortunately, this half does NOT have control of the news media, the internet social media, the entertainment industry, the sports industry, the academic world, or the public schools (K-12). So we will be portrayed by these groups as ignorant yayhoos, fanatical religious nuts, out-of-touch off-gridders, or “Uncle Toms.”

 

[Erikaspirit16]

He could have filled all four of them out and mailed them in.

He could have mailed them in, but only one would have been counted. Just like if you vote in person, and then you come in later that day and try to vote again, they can see that you already voted and send you away.

 

[F_Marturana]

An aneurysm is slightly different than a stroke. They involve bleeding, and tend to be fatal more often than a stroke. Brain damage due to aneurysm tends to be localized.

Stroke involves loss of oxygen to more parts of the brain because of the blockage. Aneurysms are fatal if they involve large amounts of blood loss, or if pressure on the brain is significant.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Again, you only need 0.3% of manipultion to swing this election.

Also it seems the few people that have come forward with fraud tales have been ignored. How many do you need to be God fearing and repent, and come forward, for you to “see”?

You’re ignoring my point, which is that fraud on a massive scale (not in terms of votes, but in terms of the scope–multi-state, corrupting poll workers of both parties, knowing in advance (!) how many votes to cast fraudulently (too many would be suspicious, too few wouldn’t work), etc. etc. etc.)

“Tales” are not facts. Even if someone saw something first hand–like burning ballots–they might not understand what was going on (burning unused surplus ballots). Saying “my cousin knows a poll worker who said x, y, and z” is not evidence of anything.

I"ll repeat what I’ve said here multiple times. There are two phrases that have been used over and over by Trump and his lackies:

“Some people say…” [Some people say they have been abducted by aliens.]
“It’s possible that…” [Anything is possible. It’s possible I am a vampire from the future.]

Both these phrases are nonsensical, but are used constantly to support completely irrational charges. As is the case here. Is voter fraud “possible”? Sure. Do “Some people say there was fraud”? Sure. And that adds up to 0. Nothing.

Like any conspiracy theory–9/11 was an inside job, a TWA airliner was shot down over Long Island by a missile, JFK was killed by the CIA, etc.–it is self contradictory. The same people believe two contradictory things simultaneously: 1) the gov. has overseen a super-secret conspiracy involving complex actions and 2) the gov. is incompetent and incapable of running anything efficiently. Which is it? You can’t have both…unless…maybe there is some super-conspiracy where the “real” government is running a cover operation to make it look like they are incompetent, while meanwhile operating complex super-secret operations in the background. It’s possible. Some people say it.

 

[mcq72]

Like any conspiracy theory

Do you still think Trump was wrong with his claimed russian hoax? Is that all conspiracy theory of a deep state against him?

You can’t have both

Yes you can. It is not either or but both, and varying at times.

And that adds up to 0. Nothing.

So it is possible…some say it happened yet is has to equal zero? At least be agnostic about it.

Are you sure we had checks and balances in those questioned counties? Are you sure the custodianship of mail in ballots was all verifiable from both parties, beginning to end?

In the end you and i know little, were not there etc. We hear and understand thru our prejudices. You will find what you seek. All we have is a belief. And that is based upon what we hear and where we stand in the first place.

Yep. I have to be careful and God fearing not to be wrong. Wrong is ugly. Have to go by the preponderence of evidence.

Also Trump had been right so far in calling out the conspiracy against him in russia hoax and biden ukranian scandal and hillary scandals and left has been wrong in their so called “debunkning”. So, Trump might be right here also about election setup. You can not deny that at least in a few states, the veracity standards were lowered, so that in the end the cheating was fair and square.

 

[mcq72]

You’re ignoring my point, which is that fraud on a massive scale (not in terms of votes, but in terms of the scope–multi-state, corrupting poll workers of both parties, knowing in advance (!) how many votes to cast fraudulently (too many would be suspicious, too few wouldn’t work), etc. etc. etc

Ok.It is not widespread if it is only in swing states( 4,5?)?

Knowing in advance? Well then lets allow all counting to be done of mail ins after the polls close, and allowing three days afterwards for them to show up.

As to both parties? Well, were both parties there at mail ins from beggining to end? Why were some observers kicked out, or allowed to be twenty feet away, or blocking out glass where observers were.

If some democrats are telling people to temporarily move to Georgia to vote in senate race (which is illegal), why wouldn’t some join the Republican party falsely, or accept a little bribe etc.

 

[AlNg]

I have no possible clue as to how the gets rectified

The solution of secular society is to provide easy access to contraceptive methods. I read somewhere that even some Roman Catholic married couples are using contraceptives.

 

[AlNg]

Like any conspiracy theory…–JFK was killed by the CIA, etc.–it is self contradictory

The mafia had the motive and they were working with rogue CIA agents to overthrow Castro.

 

[mcq72]

The mafia had the motive and they were working with rogue CIA agents to overthrow Castro.

Yep…it is alleged the mafia in cook county/ chicago cheated in close election in favor of kennedy, whose brother later as attorney general went after mob…

 

[fhansen]

As to leaders, and even parties why not they be carriers of our maladies? In particular one party has been more egregious than the other, the worst offender with the native americans, with slavery, with the unborn, with the sanctity of marriage and sex, choking on the words of “Divine Providence” or " God" in any of their party platforms. Should we expect them to he morally restrained when expediency calls for manipulation of the truth? Are we so nieve, even from a Christian perspective? Come on man…get with it.

Not sure where you’re coming from on this so I’ll just repeat the simple truth from my post:

“We’ve always expected politicians to lie-that’s just an extension of the normal (fallen) human proclivity to do so to begin with. Maybe it’s just gotten more extreme in the recent past.”

Personally I believe that if Trump had toned that stuff down a bit, and more fully and confidently assumed the role of a truthful and mature leader rather than being in the attack and personally defensive mode most of the time, even if just starting a few months back, his poll rating would’ve increased by 10-20%. Trust was lacking by this point.

 

[AlNg]

Yep…it is alleged the mafia in cook county/ chicago cheated in close election in favor of kennedy, whose brother later as attorney general went after mob…

It is not wise to doublecross the mafia.

 

[AlNg]

Personally I believe that if Trump had toned that stuff down a bit, and more fully and confidently assumed the role of a truthful and mature leader rather than being in the attack and personally defensive mode most of the time, even if just starting a few months back, his poll rating would’ve increased by 10-20%

Yes. And he shot himself in the foot in the first debate.

 

[BornInMarch]

the public crucifixion of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh

People need to stop depicting modern politicians as Christ figures! Kavanaugh had a public hearing because four people accused him of sexual misconduct; that’s not comparable to Christ being tortured to death for affirming that he is the Messiah.

 

[gam197]

mcq72:

Yep…it is alleged the mafia in cook county/ chicago cheated in close election in favor of kennedy, whose brother later as attorney general went after mob…

It is not wise to doublecross the mafia.

Be careful what you say.; I got flagged for comment on Biden which I will say was a word maybe a bit unkind…, although the definition seems appropriate

Although I do think some and I repeat some people see Biden as from Dictionary definition “lacking physical strength as a result of illness or aging.”