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stpurl
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Would you prefer the term, ‘witch hunt”?
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BornInMarch
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No, I’d prefer the term “hearing” because there’s nothing unjust about investigating a serious accusation. Especially not when that accusation is against someone who is considered for a position of power.
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Erikaspirit16
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Where to start…how about some facts, just for fun? There are two totally different things: collusion, which means two sides are working together. The Trump team was neither bright enough or organized enough to collude with Russia. I don’t think anyone at this point is suggesting collusion.
What did happen is that a large number (10-15) in the Trump campaign, including his son, Flynn, etc. had multiple contacts with Russians, some of whom have been shown to work for the Russian military and/or secret police. Why this extraordinary number of contacts? Was it a coincidence that the day after the Billy Bush bus incident that Wikileaks released a flood of hacked e-mails from the DNC? And of course we have the Trump interview with Stephanapoulos where he said–twice–that he would happily accept dirt on an opponent from a foreign source. You don’t have to be a brilliant detective to think that maybe, just maybe, there was something illegal going on. Thus an investigation. The report never said the Trump campaign wasn’t helped by the Russians. I think it’s clear that they were. It was not, ever, a “hoax.”
I agree. And both Republican and Democratic officials in charge of polls have stated multiple times that they saw no evidence of fraud and that the election was fair. If you claim it was not, you need proof. So far, not one piece of proof. Just “It’s possible that…” which is worthless.
Listen carefully: I deny it. It’s nonsense. Allowing people to vote by mail, and then counting their votes if they are postmarked on election day or before even if they arrive after election day (Pennsylvania) is not a “standard of veracity.” It’s an attempt to allow voters to vote.
Remember 2012? Remember the Republican sec. of state in Ohio? Remember how he tried to extend the hours the polls were open in Republican districts and close the polls early in Democratic districts? The courts stopped him of course, but he did his best. The Republicans have tried their very best to disenfranchise Democratic votes, and they have succeeded in most cases. For example, 1 offiicial drop box in Houston (millions of people). In my little town (60,000 and run by Democrats) we had 8-9 official drop boxes. Or the 2018 election in Georgia where the Republican candidate for governor was simultaneously the sec. of state and in charge of the election. He succeeded in disenfranchising literally hundreds of thousands of Black (Democratic!) votes. Surprise! He “won.”
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Erikaspirit16
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Mail in ballots: In my state every registered voter was sent a letter asking if we wanted a ballot so we could vote by mail. You had to apply–with your signature and personal information. Then you were sent a ballot–with an individual bar code requiring your signature again. After you submitted your ballot, you got an e-mail saying they had received it. Later they sent an e-mail saying they had counted it. Now think for a minute how you would cast fraudulent votes in this situation. The only way I can think of would be a massive conspiracy involving to re-program computers and to evade the multiple checks by manually. I don’t know how you could do that.
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Erikaspirit16
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Alleged. Again…“It’s possible that…” No proof. Just idle speculation.
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gam197
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I have repeatedly quoted the opt-out check box on the Department of Vehicle Registration(DMV) form as a concern and there are other concerns such as a 20 year veteran voter counter saying she has never seen pristine ballots in the past.mcq72:
I agree. And both Republican and Democratic officials in charge of polls have stated multiple times that they saw no evidence of fraud and that the election was fair. If you claim it was not, you need proof. So far, not one piece of proof. Just “It’s possible that…” which is worthless.
Two states are basically what they are calling for but one state would do it. Do an audit and give the results.
The second separate issue is the machines but that was questioned in 2019 by the Democrats so that is nothing new. Maybe paper ballots is the best way to go.
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Peeps
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I can kind of agree with you, although I don’t think it would have made a difference.
For four years, the news media, the “stars” of the entertainment industry, the academics, and of course, the online industry (Facebook, Youtube, etc.) were telling Americans that Pres. Trump is a liar, a racist, a dictator, a poor leader, an anti-environmentalist, a womanizer, etc.
When people hear a message 24/7, pounded into their heads over and over again–they start to believe it.
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mcq72
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And Biden didn’t?
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mcq72
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A fair election would have revealed a true standing.
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Erikaspirit16
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Think about what you’re saying. Imagine that you want to rig the vote in your state. How many votes to add to your candidate? Again, too many would be suspicious; too few wouldn’t do the trick.
As for counting mail-in votes, as you should know, some states allowed them to be counted before election day. Other states allowed them to be prepared for counting, but not actually counted. Other states didn’t allow them (by law) to be counted before election day. So if you have a million+ mail-in ballots, how are you going to count them all on election day? You’re not. And no state requires you to. Just like every other election, they’re counted when they’re counted. The only difference this time was the number of mail-in votes.
I am unaware of any observers being kicked out. But of course you have to be officially appointed to be an observer. You can’t just walk in off the street and say you want to watch. And yes, almost all states had rules about how close you could get to the people actually doing the counting. You can’t have multiple people standing right behind each poll worker! It’s nothing to do with trying to hide something, it’s allowing the workers to actually do their jobs. And if you watched the right TV channel, you would realize that the workers generally worked in pairs–one from each party. Their party affiliation was on their name tags. Now “is it possible” that some ulta-competent and all-powerful mastermind could get workers to lie and say they were Republicans when they were Democrats? “It’s possible…” but ludicrous.
What Democrats have been urging people to move to Georgia temporarily to vote Jan. 5? According to Georgia law, you have to register to vote at least 30 days before the election. So tell me how thousands of people could pull this off. Again, it would require a super-secret highly coordinated conspiracy. Possible? Sure. Likely? Absolutely not.
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mcq72
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There was no proof that Capone broke any laws, except tax evasion. I guess by your standard he was otherwise just another law abiding citizen .
How about the Penn State coach who for years had university and local officials look the other way?
Sometimes we see what we want to see. Nixon did not want America to face our ugly side, and he too was a trickster.
Sometimes we see what we want to see.
Nixon did not want to put the country thru any pain of looking at our ugly side, and he was a trickster also.
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Erikaspirit16
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Well. That’s the best you got? Some hearsay from an unnamed person in an unnamed location? With yet another “It’s possible that…”? Sorry. That’s not even close to proof.
Remember that Diebold manufactured voting machines too. The owner of Diebold was a staunch Republican. But maybe he was part of the giant conspiracy too?
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gam197
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They would not allow people who were suppose to be in the room as observers check the ballots. There were affidavits online from many of these observers. I cannot understand why one state such as Georgia, why do they abject?gam197:
Well. That’s the best you got? Some hearsay from an unnamed person in an unnamed location? With yet another “It’s possible that…”? Sorry. That’s not even close to proof.
I know you can say well if an audit of all names and addresses proves that the election was not fraudulent, people will not give up but that is not true. One state would put a lot of doubt in people’s mind.
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1ke
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Lady Karma is rearing her head in Georgia. I for one am tickled pink.
You reap what you sow. Republicans sowed lies and are reaping a real possibility of depressed Republican voter turnout in Georgia.
You reap what you sow. Republicans sowed lies and are reaping a real possibility of depressed Republican voter turnout in Georgia.
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Erikaspirit16
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I’m sure you realize there are different standards of proof for different situations. In this forum “proof” has come to mean “absolutely 100% mathematical certainty.” It doesn’t mean that either in law or in common sense. In our flawed legal system, the prosecutor has to “prove” someone is guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt.” And yet almost every day you can open the paper and find yet another completely innocent person has been released from jail after 20 years because he was wrongfully convicted.
As for sexual abuse in colleges, it is, and should be, a lower standard of proof than is required by the legal system. You do not have a “right” to your job, although you have certain rights to not be fired for illegal reasons.
To overturn what ALL election officials have called a fair and honest election, your “proof” has to be at a very high level indeed. Not just “My cousin Mary knew someone who said…”
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gam197
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Eric Coomer was related to Antifa and he also was on the board of Dominion so his name and connection cause people to question. Hand ballots are the best for any election because even tho there may be some fraud, it does not present a second set of issues. Democrats also questioned this in 2019.gam197:
Remember that Diebold manufactured voting machines too. The owner of Diebold was a staunch Republican. But maybe he was part of the giant conspiracy too?
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Erikaspirit16
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What people? What state? Sources? Links?
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mcq72
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Yes, have to have an address by dec 5th to be eligible to vote.again only need a few hundred people out of 100 million voters to possibly sway such a razor close election.
Yang (himself)and Friedman suggest, mention, moving to Georgia to vote. Of course legally only right?. You are right . My bad.
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Peeps
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And I think you underestimate what determined people can accomplish, especially when they are motivated by hatred and a hunger for power.
The Democrats threw everything in the book at Pres. Trump for four years and were defeated every time. I think that those who hate Pres. Trump and Republican policies sat down and made a vow that this time, they would NOT be defeated. And this time, they weren’t.
However, I think that it’s likely that Pres. Trump’s defeat came because so many people disliked the man and decided to vote for someone who seemed more reasonable and “nice.” And I think that much of their dislike was fueled by the messages from the media, entertainment, academia, and internet companies.
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1ke
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Yup.
Moi.
Or the words that came out of his own mouth for four years. Don’t need media— he is a walking advertisement to vote for anyone other than him.
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