Are We a Nation of Liars?

[gam197]

gam197:

If the ballot counter says it is a Biden ballot and it is not, the poll watchers are required to correct it. How can they do that if they cannot see them.?

That is not what a poll watcher does.

Repeatedly these poll watchers have said that they were placed there to make sure the ballot was for the right candidate, with nothing to do with whether it was a valid ballot. Simply watching the poll worker check and register the correct ballot for the right candidate.

That is what they felt their jobs were and the lawyers came over and agreed.

They are placed there for a reason not just to stand at a distance and smile… What would be the point?

Poll watchers who wish to be present in an absent voter counting board must remain in the
room in which the absent voter counting board is working until close of the polls at 8:00 p.m.,
and are required to take and sign the following oath:

 

[1ke]

Repeatedly these poll watchers have said

They clearly don’t understand what a poll watcher is if that’s what they’ve said.

They are placed there for a reason not just to stand at a distance and smile… What would be the point?

The point is, anyone can watch. And yes, back in a designated area. And no, not at the table.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Repeatedly these poll watchers have said

They clearly don’t understand what a poll watcher is if that’s what they’ve said.

They are placed there for a reason not just to stand at a distance and smile… What would be the point?

The point is, anyone can watch. And yes, back in a designated area. And no, not at the table.

So you believe a poll watcher just stands at a distance and smiles. What would be the whole point of that?

If that were true, lawyers would not be called in to address their job rights, to see the ballot…

 

[1ke]

So you believe a poll watcher just stands at a distance and smiles.

Yep. That’s exactly what they do.

May stand or sit beside processing table: no, must stay in public area.

If that were true, lawyers would not be called in to address their job rights, to see the ballot…

It is true. A poll watcher and a poll challenger are not the same thing.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

So you believe a poll watcher just stands at a distance and smiles.

Yep. That’s exactly what they do.

May stand or sit beside processing table: no, must stay in public area.

Who is going to do that for 10 hours.? That is not what they have been told nor what their lawyers tell the ballot counters.who object

There are a number of lawsuits.

On Thursday, a state judge ordered Philadelphia officials to allow party and candidate observers to move closer to election workers processing mail-in ballots. A spokesperson for the Philadelphia board of elections said barriers were shifted in response to the order while the city appealed it.

Nevada

That lawsuit was settled Thursday afternoon after election officials agreed to provide additional access at a ballot processing facility in Las Vegas.

 

[1ke]

Who is going to do that for 10 hours.?

Well, the dude in the video did.

But otherwise, it varies greatly as to how long anyone stays I’m sure. Elections are public. Anyone can go watch, subject to fire codes and such. Where more people want to watch than can be allowed in, when one leaves another can enter.

The issue here is just fundamental ignorance of the election processes in MI, and other states.

That is not what they have been told

“Not what they’ve been told” and “how it actually is under the law” might be two different things. I can’t say. But in that case, “the law” trumps “what they were told”.

There are a number of lawsuits.

Which have all been dismissed or withdrawn.

Nevada

Nevada is not Michigan. The dude in your video is from Michigan discussing poll watching in Michigan. Hence my citation of Michigan’s laws and not Nevada’s.

Hence also my statement that it varies by state and you can’t make generalizations.

 

[mcq72]

Now why would that be? Because the poorer citizens find it hard to get proper ID

I don’t fall for that anymore. Don’t they have to show some form of id when applying for any assistance. ?How many homeless people vote ? So to help out the few the many needn’t bother either with id ?

in my opinion it is a sham. They use poor people, and they use other tactics from the right as a means to make fraud easier. if the right uses tactics address them head on, but not by then just adapting another problematic tactic yourself. Poor people and peolpl e of color are offended when it is mentioned that they are too poor or too dumb or unmotivated to get an ID. If dems really cared , make the card free too the destitute.

Reminds me of formation public education in America. I nearly 1800’s Boston had vagrancy rating of 10%. Humanists who hated religion in education (most schools were private or funded by churches etc.) devised a plan to form a “public school” funded by taxation, so these vagrant kids could go there . Foolishly Boston agreed . A hundred, even two hundred, years later, the vagrancy rate is still the same, with a diminishing private sector schooling and a very large expensive “secular” public school. It is not about the kids. They could have just had a tax and then send kids to the existing school. Just like Obamacare is not about the uninsured but government control of private health care. Just like no Id is not about voter access.

But for sure gotta have a nice sign on the front door of your cause, but reality begins at the back door.

That’s because study after study has shown that there has not been such a thing in modern history as “voter fraud.”

well, somebody has a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn also. and capone was a nice guy ,except for a little tax slip up. “a vote stolen in cooke county stays stolen” is not just a myth.

 

[1ke]

Don’t they have to show some form of id when applying for any assistance. ?

Actually, not photo ID. There are lots of documents and identification options, and the forms only require information like SSN not a photo ID.

 

[mcq72]

These are sweeping generalizations, which are not true in all states, mail in/absentee laws vary by state as does the party that put them there.

I live in WI. Mail in ballots and absentee ballots are the same thing here

Yes, it was generalization. In NY we did add covid concerns to making one eligible for mail voting and 8 other states expanded eligibility also… I think at some states dropped a witness to signature requirement. Five states for first time mailed ballots to all voters, no request needed.

No one denies that in person voting is the best for most folks. Early voting could have easily handled the covid crisis , without push for mail ins. With the way many states allow third party handling of mail ins, not sure if this had been a normal, non covid election that Biden would have had as many votes. At the very least Democrat’s in Pa. did a better job of third party harvesting.

 

[1ke]

No one denies that in person voting is the best for most folks.

In person voting is not “best for most folks”. It’s a colossal inconvenience for most people.

Mail in voting is super easy and does not require me to take off work time or go to the polling place. I’d be in favor of 100% mail in voting like they have in several states out west.

Early voting could have easily handled the covid crisis , without push for mail ins.

Maybe.

 

[mcq72]

In person voting is not “best for most folks”. It’s a colossal inconvenience for most people.

Mail in voting is super easy and does not require me to take off work time or go to the polling place. I’d be in favor of 100% mail in voting like they have in several states out west.

ok, sounds fair. I would agree except for our human nature. it is one thing to link paper to a signature, another a signature and a person doing the signing. Again, allowing third party folk to handle and gather the ballots could be problematic. Not sure how easy it is to get valid signatures on file with election board to then fraudulently sign them on ballots. Certainly a lot easier to go in person and sign fraudulently.

But I concede that there are more registered Dems, and if everyone votes Dems would win (except for taking into account non party voters).

Actually, not photo ID. There are lots of documents and identification options, and the forms only require information like SSN not a photo ID.

ok, but still some form id besides a “signature”. ( birth certificate, naturalization papers)…can’t go in there with just nothing

 

[1ke]

Not sure how easy it is to get valid signatures on file with election board to then fraudulently sign them on ballots.

I can only speak for WI, but we have to make a signed application and provide photo ID which is on file and matched to the ballot.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

ok, but still some form id besides a “signature”. ( birth certificate, naturalization papers)…can’t go in there with just nothing

Again, think about that a minute. Say you want to vote 20 times in 20 different precincts. You go into precinct #1 and they ask you your name. If you’re going to pull this off, you have to know the name of a registered voter in that precinct. Then the poll worker looks you up, and whoops, if that person has already voted, you’re caught. If the person you are impersonating hasn’t voted yet, you could theoretically vote in their place–always assuming that the poll worker didn’t recognize either you or know the person you were impersonating. So let’s assume you vote. Then what happens if the real person shows up to vote? Presumably at that point they would ask for ID, give them a provisional ballot, and flag your earlier vote. In the end, your fraudulent vote wouldn’t count. The only way you could pull this off is if the person you’re impersonating never showed up to vote. It’s quite a string of things that would need to fall into place. And who would be organizing all this? And how could it be kept secret in an age when everything is public? Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

If dems really cared , make the card free too the destitute.

If you haven’t noticed, the Democrats ALWAYS try to make it easy to register and to vote. It’s the Republicans that put all sorts of roadblocks up. It’s not because of fraud, it’s because they want to suppress the vote.

As for the “Haven’t you heard Our Great Leader’s speeches” crowd, let me remind you that Trump lied about where his father was born (Trump said Germany; his father was born in the Bronx). No reason to do that…it just comes naturally. Or the times he’s called up reporters pretending to be someone else. Or the business about Mexico paying for the wall. Or China paying for the tariffs he imposed. Or denying his own policy of separating children from their parents at the border. Or saying the US case death rate is the best in the world (it’s 109th). And claiming to “drain the swamp” and then appointing lobbyists, millionaires, and corporate CEOs to his cabinet. And on and on… He’s now beyond 20,000 false or misleadings statements. And if you fall back on “the best economy ever” stuff, take an actual look at statistics. The only economic index that has improved has been corporate profits. Every other “good” trend has simply continued–at a slower rate!–the policies of Obama.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Reminds me of formation public education in America.

And yet every (? maybe an exception here and there) country has free public education. If it’s such a sham and a fraud, again I have to congratulate anyone orchestrating such a universal world-wide scheme. And in many countries the cunning orchestrators of the fraud have induced governments to have free university education too. Really clever I’d say.

 

[Petra202]

Painting with a broad brush — just your opinion. Can you be more specific?

 

[Petra202]

You know you never watched trump!!!you just watched clips and twisted takes on what he said and what he probably meant! Time to get specific if you can!

 

[mcq72]

Remember that Diebold manufactured voting machines too. The owner of Diebold was a staunch Republican. But maybe he was part of the giant conspiracy too?

So nobody fraudulently manipulates then?

If you haven’t noticed, the Democrats ALWAYS try to make it easy to register and to vote. It’s the Republicans that put all sorts of roadblocks up. It’s not because of fraud, it’s because they want to suppress the vote.

Ok. I also dislike disenfranching any voter, anywhere. Deplore it. Understand that is the Republican rap. Not sure how true it is anymore. I asked our local election officer who has long lines and limited access as they show on the news. She had no idea. (like fake news ?..not sure if officer is dem or republican)). I have never seen anything but a less than 5 minute wait to vote, since 1972, in ny and california.

So you still don’t answer the.question as to why Democrats dont offer to pay for id for the destitute.

I deplore like you any disenfranchising, such as manipulating number of poll locations or hours open etc… Why don’t you deplore anything could make fraud easier ( like no id)?

 

[mcq72]

In other words, acting like an adult.

Well, seems like superficial even narcisistic needs here. Let’s have it nice, when we sell off jobs to who knows where, or kill babies, or spend money we don’t have, appoint judges that really legislate, divided on race issues, the border etc.? Nice, adult like, even if they are cutting your throat?

But I get not liking him. I get personality in people, even our leaders. I do not rejoice but am saddened at his all so obvious shortcomings. Yet I feel like vomitting when I listen to more mature even gifted speakers like Clinton’s or Obama, Cuomo, and even Uncle Joe.

Everybody is out to sell you themselves. You get what you see with Trump. The others are more nicely layered in maturity and smooth speech like tonic hustlers.

Trump has enormous ego, but Obama even more. (1400 biographical pages where he talks about his favorite topic?)

As to his whining, well it is true, he has been harassed before he even took office. In fact the FBI had plan b in readiness as they illegally were investigating him…yeah nice mature obama biden pullin the strings…the resistance they called it.

Thats ok, they (Democrats) did the same thing to President Grant, because they didn’t like his policies against kkk and protecting blacks in south( yes, he also had some bad administrators to aim at also).

So sit back relax, enjoy a nice mature president, and pass the popcorn, watch some football or a movie on a nice 4k tv.?

 

[mcq72]

And who would be organizing all this? And how could it be kept secret in an age when everything is public? Possible? Yes. Probable? No.

Ok.

Very well thought out just not sure it debunks how id would not aid in vote veracity. By the way, if you use same thought process hopefully you can see how it is much more probable, more efficient, to vote for somebody else by mail in.( almost a one person operation for multiple, even hundreds of votes).

So your analysis is 100% accurate that fraud is possible at the poll. You then fail with your ultimate conclusion of “not probable”. The reasoning is superficial. It’s like a valedictorian who needs an A and the teacher says “you probably passed”.
One needs to go further and say what the probability could be, like 5%, 10%, 25 %, 40%? Those are reasonable probabilities of a fraudulent vote going thru with no id. This is based upon voter turnout. Remember also if you have access to registration and voter signature, and voting record. So obviously you dont pick someone who votes every time.

And yet every (? maybe an exception here and there) country has free public education. If it’s such a sham and a fraud, again I have to congratulate anyone orchestrating such a universal world-wide scheme. And in many countries the cunning orchestrators of the fraud have induced governments to have free university education too. Really clever I’d say.

Never said public education was a fraud, and you totally understood the sham. Public education is still education. Public education was started by educational folks. The sham was the reasoning put forth for it’s inception ( vagrancy rate , kids not getting educated or underserved). The real reason was to pull education away from religious frameworks to secular. This is not conspiracy but well documented and out in the open now, but not at first obviously. Their goal has largely been achieved of secular education , though taking more than a century, and still you have same vagrancy rate and underserved poor, (the same, maybe worse). It’s kind of a working or extension of move to separate church from state. I mean we were doing well with their union. Before states got so involved , 90% of colleges were church affiliated /funded. Harvard began just several decades after first settlement.

It is well documented in a book called “The NEA:Trojan Horse in American Education”.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

So you still don’t answer the.question as to why Democrats dont offer to pay for id for the destitute.

They may. I don’t know. I’m not going to spend my day looking up every state. But feel free if you want to!

have never seen anything but a less than 5 minute wait to vote, since 1972, in ny and california.

But of course those states are run by Democrats. Mine too. I have always voted early (except this year–by mail) and have always just walked in. As you say, less than a 5 minute wait. I can’t remember which states (Georgia?) but some controlled by Republican election officials drastically cut the number of polling places (= long waits) but they did it strategically–long lines in Democratic districts don’t bother them. Long lines in rich suburbs…well, that just doesn’t happen. And we know why.

Why don’t you deplore anything could make fraud easier ( like no id)?

For the same reason I don’t deplore cows jumping over the moon. Voter fraud is a myth. Study after study has shown that. Republicans are simply trying to disenfranchise voters who oppose them.

just not sure it debunks how id would not aid in vote veracity.

Well, if you assume a conspiracy of the scope that would be necessary, forging IDs would be easy as pie. Lots of illegal immigrants already have them. As well as a lot of underage drinkers. So…how hard could it be to get an illegal ID?

One needs to go further and say what the probability could be, like 5%, 10%, 25 %, 40%? Those are reasonable probabilities of a fraudulent vote going thru with no id.

Well no, they’re not. Out of billions of votes case, there are a handful of isolated cases of fraud, usually because someone made a mistake, not because they intentionally voted illegally. So the % of probability is probably in the neighborhood of 0.0000001.

The issue of an ID card is actually a very libertarian issue–the US has no such thing as a “national ID” for a very good reason. It’s a threat to privacy and liberty. Australia feels the same way. So does the UK. Haven’t you watched those nice WW II movies where the bad guys say “Papers, please!” So, as always, we have conservatives holding contradictory positions: when it comes to voting, ID = good; when it comes to a national ID, ID = bad.