Arrogance & Hypocrisy of "Traditionalists"

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Not so in Europe. The Tabernacle is in side chapels and has always been in those locations.
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BulldogCath:
The tabernacle not behind the altar as it would be a “distraction with all of the genuflecting”?. The taberacle has been behind the altar for Centuries-and I dont get distracted at my TLM with the genuflecting. And I do go to Novus Ordo also-I have not seen one Priest, from the Bishop on down genuflect in I would say 15 years. They do this little bow to the LAITY-not even the tabernacle.

And if I recall the GIRM that I keep having thrown at me regarding kneeling to receive communion, was there not some new language in there regarding making a solemn sign of peace or something. And as far as the tabernacle, I think the Vatican II documents stated that the tabernacle only had to be “visible”-more vagueness as you can describe visible anywhere from behind the altar to hanging from the rafters
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EddieArent:
Our past bishop, Bishop Dorsey allowed Lutherans to ordain their bishop at our shrine. Who is the schismatic bishop here? Levefbrve and/or Dorsey?

The Vatican says the Tabernacle has to be in the center/a place where everyone can see it. I went to St. James Cathedral today with Bishop Wenski celebrating Mass and guess what? No tabernacle (reckoration at it’s finest). But I’d be damned if 90% of the church were holding hands during the Our Father and some would extend their hands after the Bishop would say “The Lord Be With You” and they with their hands out they responded “And Also With You.” Once again, is this following Rome, or are they doing things they way they want? The Pope says something, cardinals/bishops/priests don’t listen, and we folks then do as we please.
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So this gives you license to not obey your Bishop? I think we all need to revisit what Christ told his followers with regard to doing what the pharisees said because they held the seat of Mosses.
Sure we have some bad Bishops and bad priests but that doesn’t give us the right to disregard their instruction that we should stand to receive communion and it certainly doesn’t make it ok to follow a schizmatic bishop.

The peace of Christ be with you.
Mark
 
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BulldogCath:
The tabernacle not behind the altar as it would be a “distraction with all of the genuflecting”?. The taberacle has been behind the altar for Centuries-and I dont get distracted at my TLM with the genuflecting. And I do go to Novus Ordo also-I have not seen one Priest, from the Bishop on down genuflect in I would say 15 years. They do this little bow to the LAITY-not even the tabernacle.

And if I recall the GIRM that I keep having thrown at me regarding kneeling to receive communion, was there not some new language in there regarding making a solemn sign of peace or something. And as far as the tabernacle, I think the Vatican II documents stated that the tabernacle only had to be “visible”-more vagueness as you can describe visible anywhere from behind the altar to hanging from the rafters
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:yawn:

as to the rest of the comments, well I find them very strange. Perhaps this is something that is unique to the USA. I attend daily Mass and I have seen a variety of priests from the Bishop down preside at Masses that I have attended. Did they genuflect? YES at the appropriate times.

One priest, to ensure that the radical troublemakers did not report him to the Bishop stopped and genuflected in front of the Tabernacle before departing after the Mass.

All priests genuflect at the Consecration. However, when they first approach the altar there should only be a bow and the congregation should not be genuflecting to the altar but they should be genuflecting towards the Tabernacle.

All necessary reverence is shown by the priests at the Masses that I have attended. I have not seen any of the alleged abuses that apparently goes on in the USA.

Maggie
 
BTW, from the 1983 Code of Canon Law:

“The tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved should be placed in a part of the church that is prominent, conspicuous, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer” (CIC [1983] 938 §2).

Which, of course, could be directly behind the altar or a side chapel. I know, some of you don’t want pesky facts getting in the way… :nope:
 
Nota Bene:
It’s amazing to see the arrogance and hypocrisy of self-described “traditionalists” on these threads. Many of them rail-away at liturgical irregularities and abuses – often rightly so. Yet at the same time they concoct and support other irregularities and abuses because they fit their prideful notion of what is “better”, versus what the Church actually directs.

No wonder the celebration of the Mass is in such disarray in so many locations. The “traditionalists” whine about those they label as “liberals” or “modernists” while they continue with their own brand of irregularities and abuses. The resulting hypocrisy makes them effete and this is certainly not lost on the “liberals” or “modernists.” All it really does is empower them.

One thing is clear. To be a “traditionalist” is certainly no guarantee that one is an orthodox Catholic Christian. Traditionalists need to come to grips with how similar they are to those they label as “liberals” or “modernists” – particularly when it comes to the negative impact they have on the Church, and more specifically, the Mass.
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Consider that prior to the Second Vatican Council Traditional Catholics were not “Traditional”, they were Catholic, the norm. The same type of Catholics that lived as early as the Sixth Century. It is today’s Vatican II, modernist, liberal, ecumenical and heretical “Catholics” who are the Radicals. What a sad state the Church had been in to have been absent of the proper substance for all those centuries. (Sound protestant to you?) It took VII in all it’s wisdom to enlighten the world.

I chuckle at those who take issue with those who attend parishes staffed by members of the Society of St. Pius X. The SSPX is a priestly society and NONE of the parishioners are members. The reason you would not encourage anyone to attend their Masses is because you, my friend, are a liberal and a modernist. You are the wolf in sheep’s clothing. By choosing to go to the Mass of All Ages one does not choose to be “Traditional”, one chooses to be Catholic. The novelties and innovations of todays Novus Ordo clergy are no more Catholic that those of Luther! You hide behind the veil of Union with Rome, as if a few years in the 1960’s defined what Catholicism truly is. There is one True Faith. There can be no other. Christ did not give us alternatives, nor did he give us a Bible! What did he give us? He gave us “Tradition”, and Apostles to carry on and teach these traditions. The Deposit of Faith has weathered the storm fairly well, thanks to the SSPX, FSSP and other like minded Catholics. If Catholicsm is not a problem for you try it on for size. Like the lost sheep I will pray for you, and your discovery of the True Faith!
 
The SSPX & the FSSP are not “like minded Catholics.” One is loyal to the Bishop of Rome and approved by same. One is in schism and is no more Catholic than Luther. Period.
 
Dr. Bombay:
However, one thing we can learn from the lives of our saints: You can never be led astray by practicing the virtues of humility and obedience. I don’t want to be a liberal or a conservative, a traditionalist or a modernist. I just want to be a Catholic. The hand holders and new Mass haters can go their own way. I’ll stick with Peter. :yup:
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Amen!
Very well said.
 
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GregChant1545:
Consider that prior to the Second Vatican Council Traditional Catholics were not “Traditional”, they were Catholic, the norm. The same type of Catholics that lived as early as the Sixth Century. It is today’s Vatican II, modernist, liberal, ecumenical and heretical “Catholics” who are the Radicals. What a sad state the Church had been in to have been absent of the proper substance for all those centuries. (Sound protestant to you?) It took VII in all it’s wisdom to enlighten the world.

I chuckle at those who take issue with those who attend parishes staffed by members of the Society of St. Pius X. The SSPX is a priestly society and NONE of the parishioners are members. The reason you would not encourage anyone to attend their Masses is because you, my friend, are a liberal and a modernist. You are the wolf in sheep’s clothing. By choosing to go to the Mass of All Ages one does not choose to be “Traditional”, one chooses to be Catholic. The novelties and innovations of todays Novus Ordo clergy are no more Catholic that those of Luther! You hide behind the veil of Union with Rome, as if a few years in the 1960’s defined what Catholicism truly is. There is one True Faith. There can be no other. Christ did not give us alternatives, nor did he give us a Bible! What did he give us? He gave us “Tradition”, and Apostles
to carry on and teach these traditions. The Deposit of Faith has weathered the storm fairly well, thanks to the SSPX, FSSP and other like minded Catholics. If Catholicsm is not a problem for you try it on for size. Like the lost sheep I will pray for you, and your discovery of the True Faith!
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Amen Amen.

Fogny
 
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GregChant1545:
Consider that prior to the Second Vatican Council Traditional Catholics were not “Traditional”, they were Catholic, the norm. The same type of Catholics that lived as early as the Sixth Century. It is today’s Vatican II, modernist, liberal, ecumenical and heretical “Catholics” who are the Radicals. What a sad state the Church had been in to have been absent of the proper substance for all those centuries. (Sound protestant to you?) It took VII in all it’s wisdom to enlighten the world.

I chuckle at those who take issue with those who attend parishes staffed by members of the Society of St. Pius X. The SSPX is a priestly society and NONE of the parishioners are members. The reason you would not encourage anyone to attend their Masses is because you, my friend, are a liberal and a modernist.
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Just an obedient Catholic, I would say, and not a Protestant. You seem to be protesting the post Vatican II Church, so what would that make you, I mean, logically? A Protestant. And you can go on and on about “liberal, ecumenical, and heretical,” but we’re the ones who are INSIDE the barque of Peter. That’s not a statement of pride, it’s a statement of objective truth…the last 4 popes have NOT lead the Church into error because they CAN’T, according to the words of Our Lord and Savior Himself. Things may be bad inside the boat on occasion and terribly sinful (of course, NO children were ever molested, no liturgy ever abused, no heresy ever uttered while the Tridentine Mass was the Ordo!), but it’s still the INSIDE OF THE BOAT.
 
Dr. Bombay:
The SSPX & the FSSP are not “like minded Catholics.” One is loyal to the Bishop of Rome and approved by same. One is in schism and is no more Catholic than Luther. Period.
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The Dr is obviously out. I’d take a SSPX Mass over a Novus Ordo hootenany anytime.
 
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GregChant1545:
The Dr is obviously out. I’d take a SSPX Mass over a Novus Ordo hootenany anytime.
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SSPX = just another Protestant sect w/ incense…
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Just an obedient Catholic, I would say, and not a Protestant. You seem to be protesting the post Vatican II Church, so what would that make you, I mean, logically? A Protestant. And you can go on and on about “liberal, ecumenical, and heretical,” but we’re the ones who are INSIDE the barque of Peter. That’s not a statement of pride, it’s a statement of objective truth…the last 4 popes have NOT lead the Church into error because they CAN’T, according to the words of Our Lord and Savior Himself. Things may be bad inside the boat on occasion and terribly sinful (of course, NO children were ever molested, no liturgy ever abused, no heresy ever uttered while the Tridentine Mass was the Ordo!), but it’s still the INSIDE OF THE BOAT.
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Well said. I just wish more “rad trads” could understand it…
 
Nota Bene:
SSPX = just another Protestant sect w/ incense…
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Well I can’t say that comment is arrogant…it’s just plain ignorant.
 
Nota Bene:
SSPX = just another Protestant sect w/ incense…
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And your Novus Ordo Mass is what???
Ah yes, Cranmer’s Liturgy without the style.
 
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GregChant1545:
Well I can’t say that comment is arrogant…it’s just plain ignorant.
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But using language logically: do they protest against the Church? Then they are, by definition, Protestant. Do they use incense? That makes them Protestants with incense, doesn’t it? I suppose they could claim to be the true Church, but that’s like the argument of the Orthodox and Protestant groups that they, in fact, constitute the true church. You guys are all pretty much in the same boat, aren’t you? Come on back to the Ship steered by Peter’s successor…oh, unless you submit to the “papacy” of Pius XIII, hiding out somewhere in Montana. Or is Pope Michael, out in Kansas, your pope? You’re either in the boat or out of it.
 
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GregChant1545:
And your Novus Ordo Mass is what???
Ah yes, Cranmer’s Liturgy without the style.
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Goodness, no, Cranmer’s is, quite frankly, much more melodic and evocative…except it cannot evoke or invoke the One Essential Thing. It cannot confect the Sacrifice. Are you suggesting that the Mass of Paul VI cannot confect the Sacrifice? That would be rank heresy. No one denies the efficacy or the validity of the Mass offered by SSPX (and certainly not the Indult).
 
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MarkInOregon:
So this gives you license to not obey your Bishop? I think we all need to revisit what Christ told his followers with regard to doing what the pharisees said because they held the seat of Mosses.
Sure we have some bad Bishops and bad priests but that doesn’t give us the right to disregard their instruction that we should stand to receive communion and it certainly doesn’t make it ok to follow a schizmatic bishop.

The peace of Christ be with you.
Mark
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And who gave them the right to celebrate an Easter Mass on a Tuesday? To be specific on March 1st, the Orlando Diocese will have a tv taping for Easter Mass. Easter is on what? The 27th?Well before the Easter Tridium. C’mon. Either you follow in the error, or fight to remove it.

I have documentation regarding this as I visited the Cathedral today.
 
St. Peter Julian Eymard stated: “When you are in court, all attention must be on the king, friends and relatives should be as if they were not.” When one is in Church for Mass that is what I, as a traditionalist, want, the right to be able to pray to my Lord God without a bunch of secular conversations going on throughout the Church and then being required to listen to priests who believe that they have failed in their mission if they don’t make people laugh out loud during Mass.
 
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Ulysses:
St. Peter Julian Eymard stated: “When you are in court, all attention must be on the king, friends and relatives should be as if they were not.” When one is in Church for Mass that is what I, as a traditionalist, want, the right to be able to pray to my Lord God without a bunch of secular conversations going on throughout the Church and then being required to listen to priests who believe that they have failed in their mission if they don’t make people laugh out loud during Mass.
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Right you are…that’s an abuse. Go through the proper channels and fight it. Just don’t hive off with a bunch of schismatics and form your own “church.”
 
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