Ask a pentecostal.

[KingJohn]

What good does speaking in “tongues,” which simply means languages, do when millions claim to speak it yet not one can interpret another.

Sometimes it helps self-better the person. It doesn’t do like…Miracles or stuff like that. Sometimes it helps self-better an indiviual or make someone feel closer to God. If that’s them, then ok.

 

[KingJohn]

Thanks for the response!

Pentecostals believe Baptism is ‘optional?’ Please elaborate. That is something Jesus said to do.

Peter was specific with instructions about Baptism.

I should be more descriptive.

We most certainly believe in Baptism and that it helps bring someone closer to God and flushes out impurities. However, we do not believe someone who has not been baptized is going to hell. That’d mean children who haven’t been baptized, yet have confessed their sins to Christ and tried to obey God are going to hell.

So, we do not believe it’s a necessity in getting into Heaven, for Christ said there is only one way to Heaven. It seems contradictory after a while…Like…

“Well, Christ said he is the only way to Heaven, yet if you don’t get baptized you’re condemed, so there’s another way” Which is false.

So, sometimes the scriptures contradict themself and I try to process and understand things.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I should be more descriptive.

We most certainly believe in Baptism and that it helps bring someone closer to God and flushes out impurities. However, we do not believe someone who has not been baptized is going to hell. That’d mean children who haven’t been baptized, yet have confessed their sins to Christ and tried to obey God are going to hell.

So, we do not believe it’s a necessity in getting into Heaven, for Christ said there is only one way to Heaven. It seems contradictory after a while…Like…

“Well, Christ said he is the only way to Heaven, yet if you don’t get baptized you’re condemed, so there’s another way” Which is false.

So, sometimes the scriptures contradict themself and I try to process and understand things.

The scriptures don’t contradict themselves. However our interpretations of scripture sometimes contradict, that would be a sign of a false doctrine.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I should be more descriptive.

We most certainly believe in Baptism and that it helps bring someone closer to God and flushes out impurities. However, we do not believe someone who has not been baptized is going to hell. That’d mean children who haven’t been baptized, yet have confessed their sins to Christ and tried to obey God are going to hell.

So, we do not believe it’s a necessity in getting into Heaven, for Christ said there is only one way to Heaven. It seems contradictory after a while…Like…

“Well, Christ said he is the only way to Heaven, yet if you don’t get baptized you’re condemed, so there’s another way” Which is false.

So, sometimes the scriptures contradict themself and I try to process and understand things.

How can scriptures be the word of God, and contradict themselves? It’s a serious question. I believe scriptures to be the inerrant word of God.

 

[KingJohn]

How can scriptures be the word of God, and contradict themselves? It’s a serious question. I believe scriptures to be the inerrant word of God.

If you look at something logically…I mean, I suppose it’s the way someone’s interitating it.

“There’s only one way to heaven, that is Jesus.”

“Get baptized or you go to hell.”

…That’s contradictory.

“Do not trust in princes or man.”

“If you reject the Apostles (man) you reject me and your way in Heaven.”

 

[Jon_S_1]

If you look at something logically…I mean, I suppose it’s the way someone’s interitating it.

“There’s only one way to heaven, that is Jesus.”

“Get baptized or you go to hell.”

…That’s contradictory.

"

Neither of those are verses in the Bible. Instead they are your paraphrasing (interpreting).
Further, Jesus told us to be baptized. He was baptized. Baptism is in him and through him. No contradiction there. Baptism is always how one became a Christian in the New Testament. Never will you find a conversion story in the Bible without water Baptism occurring.

 

[KingJohn]

Neither of those are verses in the Bible. Instead they are your paraphrasing (interpreting).
Further, Jesus told us to be baptized. He was baptized. Baptism is in him and through him. No contradiction there. Baptism is always how one became a Christian in the New Testament. Never will you find a conversion story in the Bible without water Baptism occurring.

NEITHER!?

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the ONLY way to get to Heaven.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.

Again, there’s contradiction. I honestly hope you’re not going to try to debunk John 14:6. I will seriously be done, then.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If you look at something logically…I mean, I suppose it’s the way someone’s interitating it.

“There’s only one way to heaven, that is Jesus.”

“Get baptized or you go to hell.”

…That’s contradictory.

“Do not trust in princes or man.”

“If you reject the Apostles (man) you reject me and your way in Heaven.”

I trust in the King. He said, ’ Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.’ He does not contradict.

Those He chose and appointed were specific about being Baptized. I offered a couple of examples.

I’m not trying to debate. As I said, I was raised in Pentecostal and Baptists Churches, and am more than a little surprised to see Baptism is optional, and that one who professes Bible as the only authority, I assume you believe that, could think that scriptures ‘contradict’ themselves.

I’m not sure what you’re last couple of sentences have to do with this particular topic, we’ve come to.

I’ll check back in tomorrow. Have a good night.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If you look at something logically…I mean, I suppose it’s the way someone’s interitating it.

“There’s only one way to heaven, that is Jesus.”

“Get baptized or you go to hell.”

…That’s contradictory.

“Do not trust in princes or man.”

“If you reject the Apostles (man) you reject me and your way in Heaven.”

But Jesus also said, ’ Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.’ He was not a ‘one liner’ and gave more than one instruction on the faith.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

NEITHER!?

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the ONLY way to get to Heaven.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.

Again, there’s contradiction. I honestly hope you’re not going to try to debunk John 14:6. I will seriously be done, then.

And how do you know which is the contradiction? It seems that if one accepts that one of those verses could be wrong, there’s a chance it could be either?

I’m going to bed on that thought. I am kind of shocked at that.

Have a good night.

 

[Jon_S_1]

NEITHER!?

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the ONLY way to get to Heaven.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned.

Again, there’s contradiction. I honestly hope you’re not going to try to debunk John 14:6. I will seriously be done, then.

I see absolutely no contradiction in these verses. I feel like I addressed it in my last post, as I said, the words you used where paraphrased showing your interpretation bias, once you eliminate that bias and look more holistically at scripture with its historical context it will be more clear. For now, it sounds like your done, but if you’d like more elaboration I’m happy to give it, just let me know.

 

[Zachary]

You’ve ignored questions about the Eucharist. Please answer.

How do you support that Jesus was being metaphorical about eating his flesh despite the evidence to the contrary?

Why shouldn’t girls cut their hair?

Can you play cards (our neighbors said we couldn’t and that all Catholics go to hell )

Is premarital sex ok if I accept Jesus? Abortion? Meat on Good Friday?

How does one repent?

If you’re not here to covert anyone or to learn, what do you hope to achieve by answering questions about your beliefs?

 

[Zachary]

If simply accepting Jesus is enough, regardless of your religion, what a) makes yours right b) makes going to church/gathering necessary.

If you think Scripture can contradict itself, how do you know which side of the coin is winner?

Why did God leave us churchless from Jesus’s death until Pentecostals came?

Where in Scripture is moral relativism supported (you supported it earlier and inferred Pentecostals are Sola Scriptora (so.)

 

[Le_Cracquere]

You’ve ignored questions about the Eucharist. Please answer.

How do you support that Jesus was being metaphorical about eating his flesh despite the evidence to the contrary?

Why shouldn’t girls cut their hair?

Can you play cards (our neighbors said we couldn’t and that all Catholics go to hell )

Is premarital sex ok if I accept Jesus? Abortion? Meat on Good Friday?

How does one repent?

If you’re not here to covert anyone or to learn, what do you hope to achieve by answering questions about your beliefs?

To answer your last question, Zachary, I’m glad whenever we get a chance to hear out someone from a different denomination. Often, we consider some other belief system wrong without taking the time to understand precisely why someone might believe in it. Without the imaginative sympathy to understand why a belief might be compelling, it’s pretty hard to deal with it at all, much less refute it effectively.

(Full disclosure: I was reared Pentecostal myself, so this particular case doesn’t really apply to me. But I like finding out what it is about a particular belief that’s really compelling to its adherents)

 

[eggsbenedictine]

Sometimes it helps self-better the person. It doesn’t do like…Miracles or stuff like that. Sometimes it helps self-better an indiviual or make someone feel closer to God. If that’s them, then ok.

I see, interesting.

 

[KingJohn]

You’ve ignored questions about the Eucharist. Please answer.

How do you support that Jesus was being metaphorical about eating his flesh despite the evidence to the contrary?

Why shouldn’t girls cut their hair?

Can you play cards (our neighbors said we couldn’t and that all Catholics go to hell )

Is premarital sex ok if I accept Jesus? Abortion? Meat on Good Friday?

How does one repent?

If you’re not here to covert anyone or to learn, what do you hope to achieve by answering questions about your beliefs?

I’ve answered all your questions on the Eurcharist. Don’t lie.

Your questions are bizzare and rediciulous, but I’l answer anyway.

…Girls can cut their hair! What is your problem…?

Yes, me and my Pentecostal family playe cards, monoply, etc…

Premarital sex is absoloutly NOT OK!

Abortion?..You’ve offended me. Answer your own questions if they are that bizzare.

 

[ltwin]

Why the emphasis on “baptism of the Holy Spirit”. Particularly, the flopping on the ground and gibberish speak.

Perhaps my terminology is wrong, I thought Baptism of the Holy Spirit referred to speaking in tongues/fainting to you.

Is there an appropriate term for this? Maybe charismatic gifts?

Hey Jon S. I think you are confusing two different things. The baptism with the Holy Spirit (BHS for short) is a pneumatological event. It is “an enduement of power.” For Pentecostals, this empowerment results in “an overflowing fullness of the Spirit, a deepened reverence for God, an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work, and a more active love for Christ, for His Word and for the lost” (Assemblies of God Statement of Fundamental Truths). Some Pentecostals believe in what is called “the doctrine of initial evidence.” This simply states that along with all of the other evidence for Spirit-empowered Christian ministry an immediate and physical sign will be speaking in tongues.

None of that has anything to do with fainting. It can be quite emotional for some people. But for others it can be a quiet, gentle move of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not violently possess us like some demonic power. The Holy Spirit does not compel; he leads. Anytime God moves in us, he will work through our personalities. Where the Spirit of the Lord of is there freedom, that includes the freedom to let God work through us as we are.

Some seem to focus on the external stuff that is happening, the “spiritual acrobatics.” However, those are physical manifestations. It is that person’s reaction to the presence of an infinite and glorious God at work upon a finite body.

I know there are differences among Pentecostals, one being that some believe speaking in tongues is required for salvation. Do you also believe this?

This is a minority view within global Pentecostalism. It’s mainly associated with the Oneness Churches. The vast majority of Pentecostals are pretty consistent in what salvation is and how it is attained.

To put it simply, speaking in tongues is pneumatological, not soteriological.

 

[KingJohn]

If simply accepting Jesus is enough, regardless of your religion, what a) makes yours right b) makes going to church/gathering necessary.

If you think Scripture can contradict itself, how do you know which side of the coin is winner?

Why did God leave us churchless from Jesus’s death until Pentecostals came?

Where in Scripture is moral relativism supported (you supported it earlier and inferred Pentecostals are Sola Scriptora (so.)

Moral relativism I support?

…I support restrictions on teenagers, even Young adults having sex without marriage. It’s not right.

I do not like Marujiuana.

I do not like Alcohol.

I do not like dirty music.

I do not like pornogrophy.

I do not like insults.

All these things are 100% forbid biblically, except Alcohol.

 

[Jon_S_1]

The Holy Spirit does not violently possess us like some demonic power. The Holy Spirit does not compel; he leads. Anytime God moves in us, he will work through our personalities. Where the Spirit of the Lord of is there freedom, that includes the freedom to let God work through us as we are.

My limited exposure to Pentecostal services (neither oneness nor AOG) indicated this type of experience. Thank you for answering my question and letting me know it was a little more (or perhaps) less than I was witness too.

Of course I would still love historical example from someone to support these notions.

 

[KingJohn]

Hey Jon S. I think you are confusing two different things. The baptism with the Holy Spirit (BHS for short) is a pneumatological event. It is “an enduement of power.” For Pentecostals, this empowerment results in “an overflowing fullness of the Spirit, a deepened reverence for God, an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work, and a more active love for Christ, for His Word and for the lost” (Assemblies of God Statement of Fundamental Truths). Some Pentecostals believe in what is called “the doctrine of initial evidence.” This simply states that along with all of the other evidence for Spirit-empowered Christian ministry an immediate and physical sign will be speaking in tongues.

None of that has anything to do with fainting. It can be quite emotional for some people. But for others it can be a quiet, gentle move of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not violently possess us like some demonic power. The Holy Spirit does not compel; he leads. Anytime God moves in us, he will work through our personalities. Where the Spirit of the Lord of is there freedom, that includes the freedom to let God work through us as we are.

Some seem to focus on the external stuff that is happening, the “spiritual acrobatics.” However, those are physical manifestations. It is that person’s reaction to the presence of an infinite and glorious God at work upon a finite body.

This is a minority view within global Pentecostalism. It’s mainly associated with the Oneness Churches. The vast majority of Pentecostals are pretty consistent in what salvation is and how it is attained.

To put it simply, speaking in tongues is pneumatological, not soteriological.

Thank you, Itwin.